Good coaches

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Didn't think there were many left
http://m.wsbt.com/sports/high-school-coaches-suspend-entire-football-team/-/21047884/22138164/-/ca2jd2z/-/index.html

damn phone

[Tallpine]

Here I was expecting something on wheels pulled by horses 

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

sorry  here
http://ts2.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4991603522273737&pid=15.1

[HankB]

Let's see . . . some players have had academic issues? High school athletes have always been subject to academic requirements - fail or cut class, and those players are off the team for a while; this is as it should be.

More serious misbehavior? If it's criminal (DUI, assault, vandalism, etc.) a permanent ban is in order for the offenders.

But note this statement from the linked article:

. . . a player or players may have been involved in the anonymous cyber bullying of another student . . .

So because one or more players MAY have done something nasty on line, THE ENTIRE TEAM is punished? On suspicion of a few . . . or maybe even one? And they don't even know WHO?

In my high school, this wouldn't have flown - the team would have politely told the coach where to stick his group punishment ultimatum. Maybe football would have ended at the school . . . but in that case, the coaches wouldn't be needed, either.

But in my day, the high school team WAS a team; they stuck together when a coach crossed the line. This is clearly not a TEAM, it's just a group of boys. (Maybe the coach saw that . . . )

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Let's see . . . some players have had academic issues? High school athletes have always been subject to academic requirements - fail or cut class, and those players are off the team for a while; this is as it should be.

More serious misbehavior? If it's criminal (DUI, assault, vandalism, etc.) a permanent ban is in order for the offenders.

But note this statement from the linked article:
So because one or more players MAY have done something nasty on line, THE ENTIRE TEAM is punished? On suspicion of a few . . . or maybe even one? And they don't even know WHO?

In my high school, this wouldn't have flown - the team would have politely told the coach where to stick his group punishment ultimatum. Maybe football would have ended at the school . . . but in that case, the coaches wouldn't be needed, either.

But in my day, the high school team WAS a team; they stuck together when a coach crossed the line. This is clearly not a TEAM, it's just a group of boys. (Maybe the coach saw that . . . )

hmmmm it would appear that the kids  and parents see it differently than you  but then again they can't see the big picture as well as you. what with actually being there and knowing what really happened and all. hopefully they'll see the light

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

heres one for you  reverse of first story

http://www.brnow.org/Opinions/Guest-Columns/September-2013/Former-NFL-player-s-offer-of-mercy-rejected-by-mos


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kelly-lynch/an-open-letter-to-the-parents-of-the-stephentown-300_b_3983962.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular

[roo_ster]

I think I am with HankB on this one.  Looks like an hysteric over-reaction by the coach(es) seeking to gain PC moral status on the backs of their athletes.

"Look!  We take cyber-bullying seriously.  We are so serious about it, we are willing to punish all these boys, none of whom has been confirmed to have actually bullied anyone.  Thanks, thanks, no need for applause.  Knowing that most of the boys we punished were innocent of this and driving them to tears is thanks enough."

[Scout26]

From reading the story a few days ago it would appear that the members of said "team" thought that being on the "team" gave them special privileges (like cutting classes, and generally being all around dickheads to the rest of the school).  Also the team captains (leaders) weren't teaching and mentoring their more junior members and correcting said bad behavior when it occurred.

Sometimes group punishment does work.  It isn't always "I, ME, MINE"  you have to do for the team.  The goal here is to get the team to function as a team and for older players to mentor younger.  Not to walk around campus like their poo don't stink and they can do whatever they want.

Yeah, your little Johnny may not have been stuffing underclassmen in their lockers, but he wasn't standing up and speaking out against it either.

The parents seem to agree that coach took the correct and proper action.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

From reading the story a few days ago it would appear that the members of said "team" thought that being on the "team" gave them special privileges (like cutting classes, and generally being all around dickheads to the rest of the school).  Also the team captains (leaders) weren't teaching and mentoring their more junior members and correcting said bad behavior when it occurred.

Sometimes group punishment does work.  It isn't always "I, ME, MINE"  you have to do for the team.  The goal here is to get the team to function as a team and for older players to mentor younger.  Not to walk around campus like their poo don't stink and they can do whatever they want.

Yeah, your little Johnny may not have been stuffing underclassmen in their lockers, but he wasn't standing up and speaking out against it either.

The parents seem to agree that coach took the correct and proper action.

and the end result of letting em get away with it is deals like the naval academy rape case   where those fine officers and gentlemen knew what happened yet were able to rationalize there conduct within the honor code

[HankB]

hmmmm it would appear that the kids  and parents see it differently than you  but then again they can't see the big picture as well as you. what with actually being there and knowing what really happened and all. hopefully they'll see the light

Yeah, all I have to go by is the article you posted, and can't make a judgement the way you can by considering what isn't there . . . maybe everyone there really IS alright with punishing the innocent along with the guilty. (This was Utah - is there possibly some LDS thing in play?  )

From reading the story a few days ago it would appear that the members of said "team" thought that being on the "team" gave them special privileges (like cutting classes, and generally being all around dickheads to the rest of the school).

Most people won't have a problem with consequences for individuals with academic or misbehavior issues; I know I don't. The problem is the mentality of accepting punishment of the innocent along with the guilty . . . especially when, from the linked article, "guilt" appears to only be suspected.

[BlueStarLizzard]

Win together, lose together.

Teams require some peer pressure to work together. That's true on and off the feild.

Team sports is one of the few activities where I do think group punishment for the mistakes of one (or two or three...) kid screwing up is ok.

The idea is that those who didn't do anything wrong, did, by allowing their teammates to do it. They failed the team as much as the ones screwing up. You represent the team and it represents you.

[roo_ster]

I get the whole team training dynamic.  BTDT, both sides of it.

Where it starts to chap me is when cadre is pulls stupid cadre tricks for THEIR own good / aggrandizement / jollies.

The info in the OP was meager and did not wholly support the traditional, trainee/team-betterment model.  From the OP, there was no confirmation that anyone on the team actually did the deeds.  So, it looks like cadre is putting on a bunch of theatrics to show they are just so on-board the anti-cyber-bullying train.  Coaches get kudos cut out of the asses of the kids.

I don't yet see enough data to support a teary-eyed slow-clap-to-crescendo.  If that materializes--especially if it was done by star players or team leadership--I'll start a-clapping.

Thus far, smells more "creepy & manipulative," than "character-building exercise."

[Hawkmoon]

But note this statement from the linked article:
So because one or more players MAY have done something nasty on line, THE ENTIRE TEAM is punished? On suspicion of a few . . . or maybe even one? And they don't even know WHO?

In my high school, this wouldn't have flown - the team would have politely told the coach where to stick his group punishment ultimatum. Maybe football would have ended at the school . . . but in that case, the coaches wouldn't be needed, either.

But in my day, the high school team WAS a team; they stuck together when a coach crossed the line. This is clearly not a TEAM, it's just a group of boys. (Maybe the coach saw that . . . )

Coach may have been in the Army or the Marines. The team is a TEAM? Then it's "one for all, and all for one." If the TEAM lets a few members of the TEAM screw up, thereby endangering the well-being of the TEAM, then the TEAM all get to share in the punishment. I dunno how it works in the Army or the Marines today, but that's the way it worked when I went through Army Basic. My spare pair of boots were dumped in the shower along with those of my entire company, because ONE guy didn't shine his boots well enough the night before.

A team sticks together when a coach crosses the line? Maybe I'm old-fashioned, but that's anarchy. In this case, the coaches stuck together when the TEAM crossed the line, and that's as it should be.

"It's not all about football."

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

"It's not all about football."

Seems that kid at least gets it.
Had both kinds of coaches one was the classic model that has brought us the never ending stream of scandals. Worse than worthless

The other was one of the kind you hope your kids get. He set high standards both on and off the mat and it never occurred to him that you would not live up to them.  Kinda old school though. Allowed grudge matches in wrestling. He'd be fired today


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[HankB]

. . . A team sticks together when a coach crosses the line? Maybe I'm old-fashioned, but that's anarchy. In this case, the coaches stuck together when the TEAM crossed the line, and that's as it should be.

Coaches have legitimate authority - that's a given. But it's NOT repeat NOT unlimited. Nor is the authority of any school official. When they do cross the line, yes, the team/students/voters/whatever OUGHT to stick together and remind them that there IS a line. Maybe there's legitimate debate on where to draw the line - but your post makes it sound like there's NO line at all.

Coach may have been in the Army or the Marines. The team is a TEAM? Then it's "one for all, and all for one." If the TEAM lets a few members of the TEAM screw up, thereby endangering the well-being of the TEAM, then the TEAM all get to share in the punishment.

Hmmm applying a military analogy to a school sport . . . right. But in order to be consistent, you must believe that if one cop on a shift takes a bribe, ALL cops on the shift should be arrested and face trial, right? They're all on the same TEAM, after all. If ONE teacher or coach takes indecent liberties with a minor, then ALL teachers/coaches at that school ought to be prosecuted and register as sex offenders, right? The teaching TEAM shares collective responsibility, again.

If one person commits a crime and loses the right to own a gun . . . then guns should be taken away from everyone.

Where would YOU draw the line on collective guilt? Or would you draw such a line at all?

[Hawkmoon]

Hmmm applying a military analogy to a school sport . . . right. But in order to be consistent, you must believe that if one cop on a shift takes a bribe, ALL cops on the shift should be arrested and face trial, right? They're all on the same TEAM, after all. If ONE teacher or coach takes indecent liberties with a minor, then ALL teachers/coaches at that school ought to be prosecuted and register as sex offenders, right? The teaching TEAM shares collective responsibility, again.

If one person commits a crime and loses the right to own a gun . . . then guns should be taken away from everyone.

Where would YOU draw the line on collective guilt? Or would you draw such a line at all?

The purpose of the behavior behind that military analogy is to teach trainees to think and act like a team ... to remember that they are part of a team and that whatever they do as an individual affects the team. Why is it not appropriate to teach members of a high school team the same lesson? Suppose the team is having a great season because they have a dynamite quarterback and wide receiver combination, and the quarterback and wide receiver get themselves arrested for dealing dope? BAM! There goes the season ... not just for them, but potentially for everyone on the team. Being a member of a team means doing what's best for the team. What's best for the team usually isn't covering up when some members of the team screw up -- and that's a valuable lesson to learn before leaving high school.

I would draw the line at having knowledge of the act(s), and having an opportunity to speak up and try to stop it but failing to speak up. Cops are a good example. There's an old joke about 98 percent of lawyers giving the rest a bad name, but that joke should more properly be applied to police officers, because for every one bad cop there are generally at least ten (if not fifty) who will turn a blind eye or even lie to cover up for him because of the "thin blue line."

If some members of a high school football team were engaging in cyber bullying, you will NOT convince me that most (if not all) of the team didn't know about it. I played four sports in high school -- I know how teammates talk in locker rooms. Any who knew about it and failed to either try to stop it, or report it, deserve to be punished. Just like Joe Paterno at Penn State. He knew what was going on with those kids, but he turned his back on it after making a half-hearted attempt to do the least thing he could do ... and then not following up in any way when his bosses failed to act.

I think the reaction of the kids in this case shows pretty clearly that they were wrong, and that they know they were wrong ... which means the coach was right.

[HankB]

The purpose of the behavior behind that military analogy is to teach trainees to think and act like a team ... to remember that they are part of a team and that whatever they do as an individual affects the team.

Sometimes it works very well - a couple of years ago when there were a number of stories about attempted prosecution of military members shooting back too much in the Middle East, some "unnamed DOD source" was lamenting the fact that it was difficult to get troops to testify against others - the SOBs had more loyalty to their squad mates - their TEAM - than they did to the REMFs in Washington who wanted to hang them out to dry.

. . . Suppose the team is having a great season because they have a dynamite quarterback and wide receiver combination, and the quarterback and wide receiver get themselves arrested for dealing dope? BAM! There goes the season ... not just for them, but potentially for everyone on the team . . .

Interesting that for your example you used a druggie - a dope dealer will CERTAINLY avoid dealing because it would be bad for his high school football team . . . druggies are SO considerate of others. A most excellent example! But I'm afraid you forgot to add that the rest of the team should also go to jail - after all, joint TEAM responsibility, right? Collective guilt, collective punishment. 

. . . If some members of a high school football team were engaging in cyber bullying, you will NOT convince me that most (if not all) of the team didn't know about it . . .

Aside from the bedwetting nonsense about the "crime" of cyber bullying, note that the linked article in the OP said that a player or players MAY have been involved in ANONYMOUS cyber bullying. MAY have been involved. That's no more than suspicion . . . and if people are collectively punished for SUSPICION of a few, that's a sad commentary on society.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

a lil reality
http://foxnewsinsider.com/2013/09/26/utah-high-school-football-coach-suspends-entire-team-cutting-classes-cyberbullying

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

of course in texas they'd have lynched him

wva too