Follow Biden's advice, get arrested

[AZRedhawk44]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/oct/22/va-mom-charged-after-firing-gun-into-air-to-scare-/

Mother and daughter out for a walk.  A gang of 10 hoodlums assaults daughter.  Mother fires a round from her pistol in the air.

Authoritahs arrest mom.

Money quote:

“You can’t fire into the air,” Officer Perok said. “Once something goes up, it comes down. There’s the possibility of causing property damage, injuring someone or killing someone. In an apartment complex, the odds of that bullet coming down and striking something are very high.”

Officer Perok is a fokking idiot.

We have a law in AZ called "Shannon's Law" pertaining to shooting guns in the air.  Evidently a little girl named Shannon was struck by a bullet fired in celebration of Independence Day or some other holiday.  The superstition since then is that bullets fired up come down with lethal force.  Untrue.  Bullets fired up will only come down at terminal velocity in their vertical component... maybe 150 mph at the most (about 200fps).  Not enough to kill.  The horizontal component is the dangerous part.

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1199/can-a-bullet-fired-into-the-air-kill-someone-when-it-comes-down

And... the odds of a bullet fired up coming down anywhere near the shooter or the apartment complex it originated from are damned small... not "quite high."  There's this thing called "wind" that pushes bullets around pretty violently.  That handgun bullet leaves at 1000fps and will lose 32fps each second it travels upwards.  It's gonna take over 30 seconds to reach peak altitude and stall, then it's only going to come down at a max speed of about 200fps.  That bullet will reach above 10,000 feet elevation before stalling if shot straight up.  At 200fps coming down, it's going to take about a minute to come back down.  That's 90 seconds for the wind to impart horizontal play into the bullet, and wind does all sorts of devilish things to even a fraction of a second for rifle bullets fired horizontally.  It can push a bullet hundreds of yards in the right conditions, even fired straight up.  The bullet is most likely going to strike a roof or car port somewhere, or land harmlessly in the street or an open grassy area.  The percentage of surface area that is vulnerable to a 200fps 125gr projectile for either property damage or injury is vanishingly small for a given random urban surface area.

All that aside... the mother didn't have enough bullets (or training or justification) to kill 10 hoods.  She defused the situation through her actions. 

[MillCreek]

I have often wondered in these situations: are you in a better position legally if you fire into the ground?  Assuming there is a handy patch of ground there, and not solid concrete or brick.

[RevDisk]

Officer is a moron, lying or evil. Take your pick.

“The fact she stepped away from the crowd kind of shows she was not in an immediate danger type situation,” he said. “She may have been trying to break up the fight, but that’s not the proper course of action to take.”

Prince William County police spokesman Officer Jonathan L. Perok said Ms. Gaither “should have called police instead of taking matters into her own hands.”

You can use lethal force to defend a third party who is in danger, AFAIK. Her daughter being assaulted by 10 young men would likely count. It's messed up, but legally she would have been on better terms if she had put the round into one of the young men. And even if a police car was just down the street, it doesn't take long for 10 urban youths to kick or beat someone to death.

[HankB]

I have often wondered in these situations: are you in a better position legally if you fire into the ground?  Assuming there is a handy patch of ground there, and not solid concrete or brick.

If 10 hoodlums were assaulting her daughter, why didn't she shoot 1 or more of them? 

[MechAg94]

If she was justified to shoot in the first place, what does it matter if she missed?

[tokugawa]

Interesting the daughter is now missing. Hmmm.

[vaskidmark]

I have often wondered in these situations: are you in a better position legally if you fire into the ground?  Assuming there is a handy patch of ground there, and not solid concrete or brick.

Your best legal position is to shoot the imminent threat of death or serious bodily harm until it no longer presents an imminent threat.  Especially in Virginia, where warning shots will bring charges of discharging a firearm within city/county limits and brandishing, as well as shooting into an occupied dwelling or motor vehicle (separate offenses) if that's where the bullet lands.

Shooting in self defense is an affirmative defense but has more chance of not being charged/having charges dismissed than shooting at anything but that imminent threat.  Far better to say you were trying to hit the threat but missed.

stay safe.

[zxcvbob]

If in a fit of bad judgement you ever fire a "warning shot", don't call it that!  Call it a "miss".

ETA: i just saw that Skidmark said basically the same thing

[Regolith]

We have a law in AZ called "Shannon's Law" pertaining to shooting guns in the air.  Evidently a little girl named Shannon was struck by a bullet fired in celebration of Independence Day or some other holiday.  The superstition since then is that bullets fired up come down with lethal force.  Untrue.  Bullets fired up will only come down at terminal velocity in their vertical component... maybe 150 mph at the most (about 200fps).  Not enough to kill.  The horizontal component is the dangerous part.

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1199/can-a-bullet-fired-into-the-air-kill-someone-when-it-comes-down

And... the odds of a bullet fired up coming down anywhere near the shooter or the apartment complex it originated from are damned small... not "quite high."  There's this thing called "wind" that pushes bullets around pretty violently.  That handgun bullet leaves at 1000fps and will lose 32fps each second it travels upwards.  It's gonna take over 30 seconds to reach peak altitude and stall, then it's only going to come down at a max speed of about 200fps.  That bullet will reach above 10,000 feet elevation before stalling if shot straight up.  At 200fps coming down, it's going to take about a minute to come back down.  That's 90 seconds for the wind to impart horizontal play into the bullet, and wind does all sorts of devilish things to even a fraction of a second for rifle bullets fired horizontally.  It can push a bullet hundreds of yards in the right conditions, even fired straight up.  The bullet is most likely going to strike a roof or car port somewhere, or land harmlessly in the street or an open grassy area.  The percentage of surface area that is vulnerable to a 200fps 125gr projectile for either property damage or injury is vanishingly small for a given random urban surface area.

All that aside... the mother didn't have enough bullets (or training or justification) to kill 10 hoods.  She defused the situation through her actions. 

It's only non-lethal if fired straight up. As you mentioned, it's the retained horizontal velocity that is the killer, and it doesn't take much of a deviation from 90 deg. straight vertical for the bullet to retain enough velocity to kill someone.

That said, I'd only charge her if someone were actually injured. But if you do have to fire a warning shot, the two best places are 1) down into the ground, or 2) COM of the leader. Not necessarily in that order.

[Hawkmoon]

I do sort of hope her lawyer goes into court and explains that she was only following the sage advice of the Vice President of the United States.

[vaskidmark]

I do sort of hope her lawyer goes into court and explains that she was only following the sage advice of the Vice President of the United States.

And puts her in jail for a year?

Everybody knows she was aiming COM when "something startled her".  See the Force Science Institute studies on how come cops end up shooting perps in the back when the cops swear they were shooting at the BG when he was facing them with a gun in his hand.  http://www.forcescience.org/shotback.html

stay safe.