Sandy Hook ... Still & Again

[Hawkmoon]

http://www.wtnh.com/news/connecticut/report-on-police-reaction-to-sandy-hook

A group of Connecticut chiefs of police have given the Newtown cops a whitewash clean bill of health for their response at the shooting a year ago.

"The single issue that will continue to be scrutinized will be the time the officers spent outside the building," said Matthew Reed, Chief of South Windsor police.

Dang straight, Skippy.

They then go on to rationalize that, because after-the-fact review estimates the shooter offed himself within approximately 70 seconds after the first officer arrived, the fact the cops didn't enter the building until 5 minutes and 57 seconds after the first responder arrived doesn't matter.

Well, in this case that's true -- however, the responding officers DIDN'T KNOW THAT when they showed up. They had three officers who arrived almost simultaneously, and ALL THREE dicked around chasing after a person outside of the property who had nothing to do with it while they KNEW there was an active shooter in the school.

I'm thoroughly disgusted. I didn't expect police evaluating police to be horribly critical, but I had hoped they might at least be objective. I should have known better.

[dm1333]

"The single issue that will continue to be scrutinized will be the time the officers spent outside the building," said Matthew Reed, Chief of South Windsor police.

The first Newtown Police officers entered the school 5 minutes and 57 seconds after the first police officer arrived.

It took that long to apprehend a man outside the school thought to be a threat, a man that turned out to have nothing to do with the shooting.

"They dealt with that threat quickly and then moved into the building," Reed said.

The Police Chief's Association investigation concluded that the shooter was dead long before the police entered the school.

It also concluded that Adam Lanza killed himself just 70 seconds after the first Newtown Police officer arrived outside the school.

"It is our belief that the immediate arrival of the police was recognized by the shooter and ultimately hastened the shooter's decision to take his own life," Reed said.

What was unsaid, but clearly a conclusion, was that even if the police had entered sooner, the death toll probably would have been the same.

[dm1333]

http://newtownbee.com/files/cpca_newtown_report_final_1.pdf

"The elapsed time from first officer arrival at the school, to building entry, was 5 minutes and 57
seconds. In reviewing what occurred during those 5 minutes and 57 seconds, it is revealed that
activity on the exterior of the building drew the immediate attention of arriving officers. As
police officers arrived at the school, they received reports of gunshots heard toward the front of
the building and at the same time received information that there was a person running along the
exterior of the building. Police did not know who this person was and moved quickly to confront
and identify the individual. The person was handcuffed and secured in order that police could
then focus on making entry to the building. It should be noted that the person detained was later
identified as a parent. The elapsed time from unit dispatch to building entry was 8 minutes and
38 seconds. "

"l. 19 seconds later, Dispatch announced to the units on
Crestwood that a teacher was reporting 2 figures outside the school running toward the rear of
the building and they still heard shooting. At 09:39:34 hours, 22 seconds after the report of a
possible suspect heading to the rear of the school, officers reported contact with the suspect."

[Hawkmoon]

Umm, yeah Guys, I know there was a "person of interest" outside. Where I have a problem is that they diverted the entire responding force to deal with the guy outside while the KNOWN ACTIVE SHOOTER remained inside and unconfronted.

[Azrael256]

Umm, yeah Guys, I know there was a "person of interest" outside. Where I have a problem is that they diverted the entire responding force to deal with the guy outside while the KNOWN ACTIVE SHOOTER remained inside and unconfronted.

That's the mentality.  See, defending the kids isn't cool.  Doing a TJ Hooker impression is.  What did you expect them to do?  Run in and secure the blindingly obvious target, or justify all their tacticool gear?  Sorry, I can't hear you over how awesome I am.

[freakazoid]

Did they know there was an active shooter still inside or did they think this person outside was the shooter?

[Hawkmoon]

Did they know there was an active shooter still inside or did they think this person outside was the shooter?

They could hear gunshots from inside the building, while seeing that the person outside was conspicuously NOT shooting or displaying a weapon. That's what the PIs on telebizhun call a "clue."

[dm1333]

they received reports of gunshots heard toward the front of
the building and at the same time received information that there was a person running along the
exterior of the building. Police did not know who this person was and moved quickly to confront
and identify the individual. The person was handcuffed and secured in order that police could
then focus on making entry to the building

So they should have ignored the report of gunshots heard toward the front of the building, ignored the person running along the exterior of the building and entered the building without securing the person they encountered outside.  Because that person was obviously no threat.  

[Hawkmoon]

So they should have ignored the report of gunshots heard toward the front of the building, ignored the person running along the exterior of the building and entered the building without securing the person they encountered outside.  Because that person was obviously no threat.  

There were three of them who arrived almost simultaneously (one at the rear of the property, two at the front), with more troops in hot pursuit. The guy in the back, which is where the outside "person of interest" was spotted, could have pursued him while the other people went after the KNOWN ACTIVE SHOOTER.

Maybe I'm strange, maybe it's because school security planning was one of the areas of my business in years past, maybe it's because I have a daughter in school -- I just don't get the wisdom of allowing a guy inside a building whom you KNOW is shooting, to CONTINUE shooting, while the entire responding force chases a person outside the property who may or may not be a potential threat but who definitely is not an active threat and who doesn't even have a visible weapon.

It ... just ... doesn't ... make ... sense.

[brimic]

Hypothetical:
For whatever reason, you arrive at your kids school at the same time the police do, say the kid forgot his or her lunch and you were bringing it.... You see the police set up a perimeter, you sent them wait and wait and wait while you hear pop,pop,pop coming from the inside of the school.
Seconds, minutes tick by, the gunfire continues, the police do nothing. You also have a carbine, a plate carrier, and 210 rounds of 556 in your trunk...

What is going through your mind as pop, another child is murdered, pop, another, while police seal off the scene, doing nothing to protect your kids as they have no legal obligation to, ensuring maximum death toll....

[AZRedhawk44]

Hypothetical:
For whatever reason, you arrive at your kids school at the same time the police do, say the kid forgot his or her lunch and you were bringing it.... You see the police set up a perimeter, you sent them wait and wait and wait while you hear pop,pop,pop coming from the inside of the school.
Seconds, minutes tick by, the gunfire continues, the police do nothing. You also have a carbine, a plate carrier, and 210 rounds of 556 in your trunk...

What is going through your mind as pop, another child is murdered, pop, another, while police seal off the scene, doing nothing to protect your kids as they have no legal obligation to, ensuring maximum death toll....

Drive car to unguarded entrance, ram it to gain entrance.  Rifle and one magazine, head straight to my kid's room.  Rifle at low ready, prepared to drop if I see a uniform (on the sorry and uninformed assumption that the bad guy is not the school resource officer who's gone crazy and shooting kids).  Hole up with kids in classroom & barricade door, inform 911 that classroom #123 is barricaded and occupants are armed and will shoot if an agreed-upon signal is not present when LEO units do finally arrive.

[MechAg94]

Is the delayed entry really all that relevant here?  What I want to see is more public discussion of what the teachers and kids can or should do before the cops arrive.  Should they hole up in the room or run outside?  Should the teachers be able to have guns?  Spending all our time on the 5 min delay robs from more important issues IMO.