Author Topic: Rand Paul sues Obama over NSA surveillance  (Read 1041 times)

Fly320s

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Rand Paul sues Obama over NSA surveillance
« on: February 13, 2014, 08:18:21 AM »
Linky

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/t/story/sen-rand-paul-sues-obama-nsa-surveillance-22482928?ref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F

My question: What is considered "standing" by the courts? 

I understand the plaintiff must show how he was harmed by the defendant, but does just having phone records seized count as harm?  Just curious.
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Sergeant Bob

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Re: Rand Paul sues Obama over NSA surveillance
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2014, 09:14:21 AM »
Linky

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/t/story/sen-rand-paul-sues-obama-nsa-surveillance-22482928?ref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F

My question: What is considered "standing" by the courts? 

I understand the plaintiff must show how he was harmed by the defendant, but does just having phone records seized count as harm?  Just curious.

I don't know, but I sure hope he is successful. I remember George Bush saying "The terrorists hate us because of our freedoms". I guess the gummint (including GB) is doing it's best to get the turrists to like us.
Personally, I do not understand how a bunch of people demanding a bigger govt can call themselves anarchist.
I meet lots of folks like this, claim to be anarchist but really they're just liberals with pierced genitals. - gunsmith

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TommyGunn

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Re: Rand Paul sues Obama over NSA surveillance
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2014, 11:12:59 AM »
Generally, as I understand it, "standing" means you will/have been directly affected by the party that you are trying to sue -- in this case the government.
Trying to sue the govt. is difficult.  If you don't have standing you could sue the govt for, say, infringing on your second amendment rights -- when you don't own any guns.  You do it merely because you're offended the govt. is violating the constitution.  
If that were possible then you could almost sue the government for anything.
IF you want to be a test case for some  say, 2A issue, like challenging the NFA of '34 say, then obtain a NFA weapon without the tax stamp, allow yourself to be arrested, and then fight it out in court -- this way you will have standing and if you are REALLY LUCKY maybe SCOTUS will actually take your case -- AFTER you've spent $$$$ out the wazoo on lawyers.
But say I try to sue for violating the 2A by way of the NFA.  I don't own any such weapons, I've never been arrested for violating it and never been hurt by it, therefor my case would be dismissed due to lack of standing.
Yea it sort of puts a brake on the idea of dealing with the NFA through lawsuit.  OTOH the govt. would argue everyone and their brother would swamp the courts with bogus lawsuits if you didn't need standing to sue.

Has Rand Paul been hurt by NSA surveillance?   I don't think so, from THAT point of view his case will be dismissed.
But as a senator....perhaps THAT could be said to be standing.  I dunno how it works with the entitled classes ..... [tinfoil]
MOLON LABE   "Through ignorance of what is good and what is bad, the life of men is greatly perplexed." ~~ Cicero

Tallpine

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Re: Rand Paul sues Obama over NSA surveillance
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2014, 11:18:50 AM »
The Colorado suit by county sheriffs was dismissed for lack of standing.


I imagine that if you were really directly hurt by NSA surveillance, then you would be in no position to sue.
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MechAg94

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Re: Rand Paul sues Obama over NSA surveillance
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2014, 11:35:44 AM »
Considering the NSA is collecting bulk information on everyone, what sort of "effect" do you have to prove?  Is the fact they have data obtained without a warrant enough?
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TommyGunn

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Re: Rand Paul sues Obama over NSA surveillance
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2014, 11:38:42 AM »
Considering the NSA is collecting bulk information on everyone, what sort of "effect" do you have to prove?  Is the fact they have data obtained without a warrant enough?

That may be the argument that gets the matter before a court .....  ;)
MOLON LABE   "Through ignorance of what is good and what is bad, the life of men is greatly perplexed." ~~ Cicero

Gowen

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Re: Rand Paul sues Obama over NSA surveillance
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2014, 11:43:26 AM »
He could argue that the NSA taking his phone records and sharing that information with his political opponents has harmed him.  The President is a political opponent.

Ever wonder why the stupid party rolls over and plays lapdog for the president so much?  Maybe they got something on them.... 
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TommyGunn

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Re: Rand Paul sues Obama over NSA surveillance
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2014, 11:45:47 AM »
Thing is he'd have to prove it, a gratuitus assertion doesn't count -- even though it might not sound so unreasonable on the surface.
MOLON LABE   "Through ignorance of what is good and what is bad, the life of men is greatly perplexed." ~~ Cicero