Living Wage Study

[AmbulanceDriver]

Interesting article  has some good information in here....

(CNSNews.com) - The so-called "living wage" -- a higher minimum wage -- may be more of a hindrance than a help, suggests a recent study issued by the Employment Policies Institute. The study found that prices tend to surge as unemployment rises in municipalities that require employers to pay more than the federal or state minimum wages.

I'll let you read the rest of the article for yourselves, it's at:  

http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewCulture.asp?Page=/Culture/archive/200609/CUL20060925a.html


However, there are a couple of quotes in here that just about made me puke:

However, Wendell Primus, senior policy adviser for House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), disagreed with Strauss' assessment.

"I think it really hinges on the political system and if our political system is not willing to redistribute income, then I think we have no choice but to go to a living wage concept," Primus said.

The only way to help low wage earners is through income redistribution in the form of taxation, he said. "If you can't raise taxes you're not going to be able to redistribute any income whatsoever."

Now, the last time I checked, we didn't live in a communist country, as much as the liberals would like to think.....

I think that this statement oughta be used by anyone running against her.  Loud and long.  Not a shocker mind you, but Rep Pelosi wants to take your hard earned money and give it to others....

[The Rabbi]

A good reminder than we cannot legislate our way to prosperity.  If $9/hr is good, then why not $25?  Why not $100/hr?
Liberals consistently want to punish the most productive members of society and reward the least productive.  Makes no sense.

[Art Eatman]

The jobless rate has gone up every time the minimum wage rate was increased.  But, that increases the number on some form of welfare, which "justifies" allocating more tax money to "help the poor and needy".

What these doofi can't seem to understand is that if you raise the pay of your lowest-paid employee by the mandated amount, that puts them very near those who were already making a buck or two per hour more.  They're jealous about wanting "a raise", so they, too, must get more pay.  Raise the minimum a buck, the next two steps up the ladder will also get an extra buck.  Most small businesses can't absorb this sort of $$$ hickey.  So, somebody's gotta look for a new job.  

The Pelosi crowd just votes themselves a nice payraise and they keep on truckin'.  (Euphimism for a copulative verb.)

Art

[charby]

This is crazy talk to create a living wage.

If you want to make a living wage you have to work for it, either bust ass on the job or get some education then bust ass on the job.

If you bust ass at the local burger joint eventually you'll make into management, might not be enough to raise a family of 3 kids and a non working wife on but a lot better than being the burger flipper.

For those who have a college degree and make crap wages, well you should have picked a differnet education/career path.

-C

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

A good reminder than we cannot legislate our way to prosperity.  If $9/hr is good, then why not $25?  Why not $100/hr?
Liberals consistently want to punish the most productive members of society and reward the least productive.  Makes no sense.

It makes perfect sense.  The libs want to feel good about themselves, and they don't mind doing so at our considerable expense.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

The jobless rate has gone up every time the minimum wage rate was increased.  But, that increases the number on some form of welfare, which "justifies" allocating more tax money to "help the poor and needy".

What these doofi can't seem to understand is that if you raise the pay of your lowest-paid employee by the mandated amount, that puts them very near those who were already making a buck or two per hour more.  They're jealous about wanting "a raise", so they, too, must get more pay.  Raise the minimum a buck, the next two steps up the ladder will also get an extra buck.  Most small businesses can't absorb this sort of $$$ hickey.  So, somebody's gotta look for a new job.  

The Pelosi crowd just votes themselves a nice payraise and they keep on truckin'.  (Euphimism for a copulative verb.)

Art

I strongly suspect that the "doofi" understand quite well how all this works.  I think they know what the deeper implications are, and I think they're working towards them deliberately.

[Brad Johnson]

When I read that article two words come to mind,

"Well... DUH!"

Brad

[Monkeyleg]

Oh, yeah. There's a reason why all of the big cities are controlled by liberals: the voting bloc consists of those who are on the dole, and those whose job it is to dole it out.

Where do people get the idea that they should be able to raise kids by flipping burgers at McDonalds?

Here's the progression for most people:

1. Get a job. Any job. (I've had some pretty gawdawful ones over the years).

2. Do a good job. (ie, show up, don't swear at your boss, and do whatever it is you're supposed to).

3. Get a better job. (If you succeeded at #2, #3 is much easier).

4. Get schooling if you can. If you can't, figure out what you can do without schooling.

5. When you're making more than you need to pay your rent and feed yourself, then it's time to think about having kids. Not before.

6. Keep working hard at your job; eventually, somebody will notice and offer you something better. Or, take the initiative yourself and move into a better position.

Lest anyone think I'm being simplistic, let me offer this example: I've watched some of the guys at the Harley dealership near me over the past 20+ years. They started at the parts counter. They moved into another department. They either moved up in the dealership, or they were hired on at HD, Inc.

They went from low-paying jobs to the middle class. Or even better. One guy started at the bottom, and became one of the partners in the dealership.

[Jamisjockey]

Some people don't get it.  I've had this arguement before, over and over again....and it goes no where.....
Me: "So I run XYZ Greasepit Burgers.  I've got 50 employees.  Most are minimum wage earners with high turnover.  I now have to pay them a dollar more an hour.  Rather than take money from my family to pay the difference, I'm going to charge more for each burger.  That means that in reality, you are paying for the minimum wage increase."
Joe Liberal "that's not how it works."
Me "then where does the money come from"
Joe liberal.......[crickets chirping]....."that's not how it works.  The price of goods won't go up."
About this point, the vein on the side of my neck begins bulging, and my nostrils are flaring......

[The Rabbi]

A good reminder than we cannot legislate our way to prosperity.  If $9/hr is good, then why not $25?  Why not $100/hr?
Liberals consistently want to punish the most productive members of society and reward the least productive.  Makes no sense.

It makes perfect sense.  The libs want to feel good about themselves, and they don't mind doing so at our considerable expense.

Sorry.  It makes no sense if your goal is to help poorer people achieve independence and increase the general well-being of America.
If your goal is merely to get elected by doling out the most goodies while appearing to "care" then you are right.

[Guest]

Now, the last time I checked, we didn't live in a communist country, as much as the liberals would like to think.....

I wish people would educate themselves and stop using vague, meaningless terms like "liberal" and "conservative."  There is NOTHING "liberal" about Nancy.  She is properly termed a marxist.

Liberals consistently want to punish the most productive members of society and reward the least productive.  Makes no sense.

More use/abuse of the vague meaningless term "liberal."  That is also an insulting misuse of the word "productive."  If you've worked in the real world, and (as I have) worked in different fields, you know that NO ONE is less productive than MANAGEMENT.  Middle and upper management (except in small businesses) produce NOTHING.  These people come in late, take regular vacations, and the KICKER, is they are always given BETTER health care plans from the company, as if THEIR life is worth more than the people "below" them.  Those who actually do the work (i.e. those who build the product, ESPECIALLY skilled workers like machinists) produce incredible amounts of WEALTH while management sits in their offices never getting their precious business suits dirty.

The cook at the Denny's is quite LITERALLY "more productive" than anyone else there (esp management).  That cook MAKES what your customers came to GET.  That cook is your whole business, and can make or break you, yet he/she gets a pittance and usually NO benefits, while some chick who walks the plate to your table expects 20 bloody PERCENT as a "tip" for her "effort."

Basically, americans need to re-learn the definitions of the words they use.  Words like "productive."  Furthermore, words that have no real meaning, like "liberal," ought to be forgotten.  Instead they're thrown around by ignorant people who simply want to show support for their "team."

[Guest]

Some people don't get it.  I've had this arguement before, over and over again....and it goes no where.....
Me: "So I run XYZ Greasepit Burgers.  I've got 50 employees.  Most are minimum wage earners with high turnover.  I now have to pay them a dollar more an hour.  Rather than take money from my family to pay the difference, I'm going to charge more for each burger.  That means that in reality, you are paying for the minimum wage increase."
Joe Liberal "that's not how it works."
Me "then where does the money come from"
Joe liberal.......[crickets chirping]....."that's not how it works.  The price of goods won't go up."
About this point, the vein on the side of my neck begins bulging, and my nostrils are flaring......

The actual lefty answer is: "XYZ greasepit is a reprentative of corporate greed bleeding the working man for all he is worth, they deserve to make less money."

[Monkeyleg]

Off Topic: "
Now, the last time I checked, we didn't live in a communist country, as much as the liberals would like to think.....
I wish people would educate themselves and stop using vague, meaningless terms like "liberal" and "conservative."  There is NOTHING "liberal" about Nancy.  She is properly termed a marxist.

Liberals consistently want to punish the most productive members of society and reward the least productive.  Makes no sense.
More use/abuse of the vague meaningless term "liberal."  That is also an insulting misuse of the word "productive."  If you've worked in the real world, and (as I have) worked in different fields, you know that NO ONE is less productive than MANAGEMENT.  Middle and upper management (except in small businesses) produce NOTHING.  These people come in late, take regular vacations, and the KICKER, is they are always given BETTER health care plans from the company, as if THEIR life is worth more than the people "below" them.  Those who actually do the work (i.e. those who build the product, ESPECIALLY skilled workers like machinists) produce incredible amounts of WEALTH while management sits in their offices never getting their precious business suits dirty."

I guess you and I worked for different companies.

When I worked for the largest newspaper in WI, repairing the vending boxes, I taught the new, minimum-wage workers by my example.

When I managed a small crew at the first photo studio I worked for, I made sure that I did the same work the "grunts" did. Only by doing so could I earn their respect.

When I owned my own studio, I cleaned the toilets, vacuumed the carpets, and scrubbed the floors on the weekends. 5000 square feet of cleaning every weekend.

A thousand guys can machine a part. Only a handful can make that part profitable, make the product a success, and consequently make the company a success.

I had this discussion years ago with my wife, when she was working a menial job. She complained that she worked until her back ached, but she wasn't getting paid big money.

"How many people," I asked, "can do your job?"

She gave it some serious thought before replying, "anybody."

And there it is.

[The Rabbi]

Thanks, Dick.

No, there was no misuse of any words here.  Liberals push redistribution in the name of fairness.  That is a liberal agenda item.  It involves taxing people who earn high incomes.  Taxing is another form of penalty: the more you work, the more you pay.  They earn big incomes because they provide the most benefit to society.  Yes, you can point to a CEO like Al Dunlop and question it but overall the system works fine.
As for the cook at Denny's: how many decisions critical to the business does he make a day?  None.  How much of his capital is invested in the business?  None.
I doubt you have worked much in the real world.  If you have you didnt understand a lot about how jobs get created and how companies work.

[Jamisjockey]

The actual lefty answer is: "XYZ greasepit is a reprentative of corporate greed bleeding the working man for all he is worth, they deserve to make less money."

LOL yeah, except that Joe Local runs XYZ greasepit as a franchise and keeps XX% of the profits for himself.  And spends that money in the local economy, redistributing his wealth through trickle down economics.....ooohhhh....I'd better hush, some lib might hear that comment and blow a gasket on us....

[charby]

If libs want to make it easier for people to earn a living wage, make it easier to navigate through the SBA website so folks with ambition but not a lot of capital can start their own business.

This would be better than robbing from the consumer to increase the minimum wage.

-C

[The Rabbi]

Goes further than that.
Joe Local is the franchise owner.  He employs many locals.  He hires people to clean the store, cut the grass, take out the trash etc.  
I can't say exactly how much money I have spent setting up and opening my new business, but it is in the thousands.  Every dollar went to someone else and helped pay someone's salary.  Certainly more productive than taking tax money and giving it to loafers.

[Jamisjockey]

Goes further than that.
Joe Local is the franchise owner.  He employs many locals.  He hires people to clean the store, cut the grass, take out the trash etc.  
I can't say exactly how much money I have spent setting up and opening my new business, but it is in the thousands.  Every dollar went to someone else and helped pay someone's salary.  Certainly more productive than taking tax money and giving it to loafers.

I know, I'm feeling the pain of owning a small business.  We have two pt employees, we hire a housekeeper, grocery delivery, and my wife farms out some other work.  She's making good money, but its amazing how much goes right back out just so that we can maintain our sanity.

[Ben]

The actual lefty answer is: "XYZ greasepit is a reprentative of corporate greed bleeding the working man for all he is worth, they deserve to make less money."

And I always find that Leftist answer sadly amusing. My mom and dad, who immigrated here not speaking the language, had some pretty crappy jobs as they assimilated and worked to better themselves. Their take is that they DID bleed and sweat as the "working man", and the government doesn't have the right to take what that got them and give it to someone else.

I think very few of the "Redistribution Left" ever actually had a shovel in their hand.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

A good reminder than we cannot legislate our way to prosperity.  If $9/hr is good, then why not $25?  Why not $100/hr?
Liberals consistently want to punish the most productive members of society and reward the least productive.  Makes no sense.

It makes perfect sense.  The libs want to feel good about themselves, and they don't mind doing so at our considerable expense.

Sorry.  It makes no sense if your goal is to help poorer people achieve independence and increase the general well-being of America.
If your goal is merely to get elected by doling out the most goodies while appearing to "care" then you are right.

The libs have quite a racket going.  Keep the poor people poor, all while promising them wealth in exchange for their votes.

The racket would fall apart if the poor ever made it out of poverty.  Self-supportere are immune to that particular bargain.  The self-supporting types tend to vote Republican more than Democrat.

Do you have any doubt about whether or not the Democrats really want to eliminate poverty?  Once they succeed their raison d'etre vanishes, and their power/wealth/publicity along with it.

[The Rabbi]

The libs have quite a racket going.  Keep the poor people poor, all while promising them wealth in exchange for their votes.

The racket would fall apart if the poor ever made it out of poverty.  Self-supportere are immune to that particular bargain.  The self-supporting types tend to vote Republican more than Democrat.

Do you have any doubt about whether or not the Democrats really want to eliminate poverty?  Once they succeed their raison d'etre vanishes, and their power/wealth/publicity along with it.

I agree 100%.  Poverty programs increase poverty and dependence, not end it.  We saw that in NOLA where people sat around waiting for the gov't to help.  No self-reliance at all.
Allied with the Dems are the gov't unions, the only part of the union world growing.  Their power comes from how many people they service, so naturally they want to see that increase, not go down.
It is a racket.