This is why we set up surreptitious video in the hospital

[MillCreek]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/10/22/mom-baby-smothering/17713273/

When we suspect that someone is abusing a patient.  These videos have a tremendous impact on the criminal juries; I have been in the courtroom when the videos are played for the jury. 

[vaskidmark]

Munchausen by Proxy or just mean and evil?

stay safe.

[AJ Dual]

http://youtu.be/zz3PhWFhA3I

[MillCreek]

Munchausen by Proxy or just mean and evil?

stay safe.

I have spent many an evening pondering this very thing. I can say, based on my experience, that if you can generate a credible MBP defense, you usually get a lighter sentence.  My semi-informed opinion though, is that it can be difficult to generate that credible defense, unless you can afford to shop the case around to enough psychiatry/psychology experts to give you a favorable expert witness report.

[AJ Dual]

I have spent many an evening pondering this very thing. I can say, based on my experience, that if you can generate a credible MBP defense, you usually get a lighter sentence.  My semi-informed opinion though, is that it can be difficult to generate that credible defense, unless you can afford to shop the case around to enough psychiatry/psychology experts to give you a favorable expert witness report.

I'm not clear why a MBP diagnosis/defense even works. The legal standard for an insanity defense is not merely being "insane", but insane to the point you didn't know it was wrong to kill.

I don't see anything in even the worst raging case of MBP that would make a mother not know it's wrong to harm or kill her child.

[MechAg94]

It is good they had the video.  I think too many people just can't believe or imagine that anyone would do something like that.  It is nice to be able to have that illusion, but people need to know those kind of people exist.

[Balog]

I'm not clear why a MBP diagnosis/defense even works. The legal standard for an insanity defense is not merely being "insane", but insane to the point you didn't know it was wrong to kill.

I don't see anything in even the worst raging case of MBP that would make a mother not know it's wrong to harm or kill her child.

If I'm reading MillCreek right, it would merely result in a lighter sentence as an extenuating circumstance.

[MillCreek]

If I'm reading MillCreek right, it would merely result in a lighter sentence as an extenuating circumstance.

Correct.  In the three cases in which I have been involved where there was a finding of MBP as causing or contributing to the crime, I think the judge took that into account in passing sentence. 

[MillCreek]

http://www.medpagetoday.com/Psychiatry/GeneralPsychiatry/48311

An interesting article on MBP.

[brimic]

In Milwaukee,  they call these 'co-sleeping deaths.'
I think 'SIDS'  was what white people called it.

[zxcvbob]

In Milwaukee,  they call these 'co-sleeping deaths.'
I think 'SIDS'  was what white people called it.

Careful...

[Scout26]

Someone want to check my math here.

I count 4 kids, the oldest one being 5 years old, all by age 19.   So she was 14 (give or take a year) when she had her first.  If I'm cypherin' this correctly.


There's your problem....

 

[brimic]

Someone want to check my math here.

I count 4 kids, the oldest one being 5 years old, all by age 19.   So she was 14 (give or take a year) when she had her first.  If I'm cypherin' this correctly.


There's your problem....

 

....and she's not even hot....

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Girls don't have to be hot. Just willing


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[Hawkmoon]

In Milwaukee,  they call these 'co-sleeping deaths.'
I think 'SIDS'  was what white people called it.

Sudden Infant Death Syndrome doesn't involve "co-sleeping." It afflicts infants who are sleeping unaccompanied, in their cribs.

[brimic]

Sudden Infant Death Syndrome doesn't involve "co-sleeping." It afflicts infants who are sleeping unaccompanied, in their cribs.

I know that. While there are legitimate deaths from both, its impossible to determine if either is used as an excuse for an outright murder, which is a big white elephant in the room that eople refuse to talk about. On the OP's link, there was an aytempted murder caught on film which normally would have been categorized as SIDS.
Local to me, Co-sleeping is. The stated cause, and almost syrictly in the inner city.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Cosleeping deaths are often accompanied by booze and dope


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[Perd Hapley]

Munchausen by Proxy or just mean and evil?

stay safe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbB0apnfJWU

[vaskidmark]

In Milwaukee,  they call these 'co-sleeping deaths.'
I think 'SIDS'  was what white people called it.

Are you saying putting a hand over the mouth & nose until breathing stops is referred to as "co-sleeping death" or "SIDS"?  Or was there another situation refererenced that I missed?

stay safe.

[Balog]

I know that. While there are legitimate deaths from both, its impossible to determine if either is used as an excuse for an outright murder, which is a big white elephant in the room that eople refuse to talk about. On the OP's link, there was an aytempted murder caught on film which normally would have been categorized as SIDS.
Local to me, Co-sleeping is. The stated cause, and almost syrictly in the inner city.

Murder frequently leaves signs.

Co-Sleeping deaths are almost always not deliberate, but negligent. Laqueefa gets too drunk or stoned to notice that's she's rolled over onto her baby and is smothering it.

[T.O.M.]

MBP may get you some sympathy in terms of sentencing, but it will also lose you custody of your kids...all of them, not just the subject of the abuse.

[DustinD]

So abusing one kid in some cases can get that kid taken away, but not the rest?

[vaskidmark]

MBP may get you some sympathy in terms of sentencing, but it will also lose you custody of your kids...all of them, not just the subject of the abuse.

Not only loss of ustody, but in some cases loss of residual parental rights as well.  Thhat's about the harshest move the state can take against a parent.  It also suggests that the state has become convinced that the mental disorder stands no chance of being cured/corrected - often a finding at the beginning of proceedings rather than later on down the line.

OTOH a parent who has repeatedly broken major bones may be "awarded" supervised visits while the child remains in foster care.  (And some of the supervisees have been the same adults in  the home who did not lift a finger to protect the kid from the abuse in the first place.)

stay safe.

[AJ Dual]

Murder frequently leaves signs.

Co-Sleeping deaths are almost always not deliberate, but negligent. Laqueefa gets too drunk or stoned to notice that's she's rolled over onto her baby and is smothering it.

Yeah, brimic and I are exposed to the same Milwaukee news-cycle. There's 10-12 of these cases a year. And not much is being done about it for a couple of reasons.

- Soft racism of lowered expectations causing kid-glove treatment of the families involved.
- The underlying not-so-soft-racism of figuring the dead infant wasn't going grow up to be a major asset to the community anyway.
- No real ability (nor should there be) of the .gov or local CPS to invade the home to the degree required to prevent it.
- PC issues that white suburban granola-moms forming another part of the Democratic base manage to almost never kill their co-sleeping infants.
- No one with the guts to charge it after the fact as negligent homicide and see if there's a deterrent effect.

Oh, forgot to add...

- The main person haranguing about the issue of inner-city co-sleeping deaths is a hated, reviled, despised (I don't think there's words for what the MKE metro/SE WI liberal establishment feels for the man...) conservative radio drive-time talk-show host. And the fact he's on the issue is going to make everyone else loath to tackle it.