New space-age boolits!

[just Warren]

http://www.ammoland.com/2015/01/polycase-ammunition-innovative-bullet-design/

Not sure what to make of this but I'm generally in favor of innovation. At least they don't advertise them as exploding ninja super-tactical operator rounds.

[Northwoods]

The faster velocities reduce recoil and lower muzzle rise, allowing for quicker follow-up shots and making a day at the range fun for everyone from beginners and small statured shooters to long-time shooters and grand masters.

Uhhhh, wha??

[cordex]

A 230gr pure lead projectile contains about $0.04 of lead. A pure copper projectile of the same volume weighs about 182 grains and contains $0.11 of copper.  Nylon is presumably very inexpensive but cuts the weight drastically.

I can't see these being either cost effective or effective substitutes for training compared to lead based projectiles.

[AJ Dual]

Uhhhh, wha??

That's because if you look at their offerings, all the grain weights of the bullets are on the light end of the spectrum out of all nominally common loadings.


114gr .40 S&W, 61gr .380, 74gr 9mm etc.

I'm not against it in principle, IF it cycled my firearms appropriately AND they managed to sell it for the same price or better than Wolf steel case FMJ, I'd be interested in it for punching paper at the range. But as Cordex notes, unless they've got the ability to injection mold the components with so much automation and so cheaply, I don't see this being cheaper in actual practice.

[Northwoods]

then they should have said lighter weight did that.  all else being equal, higher velocities creates higher recoil.

[230RN]

I had to dig a little to find out about the fluted bullet in the pic:

ARX (Advanced Rotation eXtreme): Ideal self-defense projectile with a revolutionary, non-expanding patent-pending design that transfers force to targets in a new, highly-effective way and produces exceptional penetration while mitigating the risk of over penetration.

Read more: http://www.ammoland.com/2015/01/polycase-ammunition-innovative-bullet-design/#ixzz3PLe2tviF
Under Creative Commons License: Attribution
Follow us: @Ammoland on Twitter | Ammoland on Facebook

The one illustrated looks as if it's designed to disrupt from a left-hand rotation of the bullet from the rifling.  Left-hand rotation seems to be common in Colt handguns, but what about the others?

Or am I just looking at those flutes wrong?


"...design that transfers force to targets in a new, highly-effective way and produces exceptional penetration while mitigating the risk of over penetration."

I want to see the gelatin tests.

Terry

[brimic]

Yeah, no.

[Fly320s]

I have a box of that ammo in 9mm.

That company popped up in my news feed on Facebook. After reading their promo material, I made a snarky comment on their Facebook page. They offered to send me a box for free.

Like 230RN, I'm curious as to what guns use left and right-twist rifling.

[brimic]

I have a box of that ammo in 9mm.

That company popped up in my news feed on Facebook. After reading their promo material, I made a snarky comment on their Facebook page. They offered to send me a box for free.

Like 230RN, I'm curious as to what guns use left and right-twist rifling.

That is pretty cool of them.

I remember about 10 years ago, someone made a post on a hunting forum about (then new) DRT ammo and its wild claims (like being able to penetrate barriers then cause huge deep wound channels in flesh on the other side. A rep for the company came on and basically called forum member 'stupid uneducated toothless rednecks.'

[Brad Johnson]

I'd be a lot more impressed if they'd lay off the hype and hyperbole. "Marketing by thesaurus" is a sure fire way to make me highly doubtful of mfgs claims.

It's a sintered copper core encased encased in injection-molded nylon. The resulting lightweight round yields higher velocities under standard pressures. It's essentially a sabot round but with the polymer used as a binder for the metallic elements rather than a fall-away shell. I can appreciate the tech but the marketing strategy leaves me indifferent.

Brad

[Scout26]

produces exceptional penetration while mitigating the risk of over penetration.

So which is it?  Or does it magically know when to stop?

Why does sound like it breaks up upon contact?

And if this is lighterweight then regular lead core bullets, wouldn't it even be lighter with those flutes in it?  And I'd really like to see gelatin test, ballistics charts, and test target results from various guns (both with rifling that enhances the sping caused by the fluting and rifling that is counter to the fluting.)

[230RN]

<slight departure>

"Like 230RN, I'm curious as to what guns use left and right-twist rifling."

I think most original Colts (at least handguns) are left-hand twist.  Non-Colt variants are usually right-handed.

I strongly suspect old Sam'l Colt was left handed, but can't confirm it.  But if you've ever handled an SAA, you will realize that it's a lot easier to handle (eject, reload) if you're left-handed.  I also suspect the left-handed twists of his handguns are a subtle "dig" at right-handers.  (See ETA)

People sometimes complain about the weird recoil of the (milspec, original) 1911s, and I further suspect that this is because of the gun's Newtonian reaction to the left-handed twist* --which would make the gun's "twist recoil" to the right, clockwise, instead of to the left, counter-clockwise.

No need to respond, just sayin'.

</slight departure>

Terry

* Yes, Newton's third law (action-reaction) applies to angular momentum ("torque") as well as linear action-reaction.

ETA:  The counter-argument to this is that handguns, both aboard ships and with the Cavalry, were intended to be used with the left hand, with the cutlass, saber, or sword (the primary weapons) wielded with the right hand.  That's why images of the Cavalry have their holsters "backwards" on their right side --for crossdrawing with the left hand.  Folks go back and forth on this, though.

[lupinus]

Great.

Now the Glock haters can bitch about tupperware bullets too

[Fly320s]

A quick check shows my M&P to be left hand twist.

[griz]

Looks like it starts at about a dollar per round for the 380 practice ammo and goes up from there.  I suppose that is competitive with other lead free ammo, but lead is still cheaper.

[Firethorn]

Looks like it starts at about a dollar per round for the 380 practice ammo and goes up from there.  I suppose that is competitive with other lead free ammo, but lead is still cheaper.

Copper costs money.  It's in demand.  They practically have to give lead away in comparison.

Copper $5670 a ton, lead's only $1827

[MechAg94]

http://polycaseammo.com/
Looking at their site, they do appear to make ammo with polymer cases as well as polymer based bullets.  There is a ballistic gellatin video, but it is all in slow motion with no information. 

I like the idea of polymer cases if that works and was cheaper.  The video on the link talked about polymer cases with coated aluminum base and primer pocket.  I am not sure how well that would work for repeated reloading.  If the polymer cartridges were cheaper and worked well for one loading, I could see military ammo going to it similar to the steel case.

[HankB]

Interesting that they claim they'll be making both component bullets and reloading data available . . .

[230RN]

I had to dig a little to find out about the fluted bullet in the pic:

The one illustrated looks as if it's designed to disrupt from a left-hand rotation of the bullet from the rifling.  Left-hand rotation seems to be common in Colt handguns, but what about the others?

Or am I just looking at those flutes wrong?


"...design that transfers force to targets in a new, highly-effective way and produces exceptional penetration while mitigating the risk of over penetration."

I want to see the gelatin tests.

Terry

Now that I've seen the gelatin test video, I wonder if the flutes are designed to stop the rotation when it hits in order to make it tumble.

Hm.  That would be a new departure, no?

Terry

[MechAg94]

Makes me wonder when someone will make a bullet with pop out broadhead blades.

[dogmush]

Makes me wonder when someone will make a bullet with pop out broadhead blades.

http://www.google.com/patents/US8646388

[vaskidmark]

Makes me wonder when someone will make a bullet with pop out broadhead blades.

They come in 5-packs at the gun shows.  Right next to the ball-and-chain and dragon's breath in pistol sizes.

stay safe.

[Balog]

Lol, no.