John Wick

[Ben]

Surprisingly good movie, if you take it for the action escapism that it is.

Apparently the gun fu they used in it is based on the Center Axis Relock (CAR) shooting system. Gets a bit of bad press in the shooting community (some of it rightly so for defensive shooting, IMO):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBBt0d_umXg


Entertaining to watch it used in a movie though (NSFW language):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=w-HSoOFdJ3s#t=168

[Doggy Daddy]

I concur.  Thoroughly enjoyed that one.

Also, don't *expletive deleted*ck with my dogs!*


*When I'm doing a class, it's not uncommon for my class to notice the dogs on my laptop wallpaper.  After all, the dogs are projected on a screen at several times normal size.  The comment is usually made that "I bet you don't worry about your wife when you have to work late."  My response is that I don't have to worry about the dogs, as I guarantee that at any time my wife will have at least one .45 within reach so she can protect the dogs.

[BlueStarLizzard]

awesome movie.

[Jamisjockey]

Highly entertainig flick.

[Hawkmoon]

So how is the C.A.R. system fundamentally different from a Weaver stance?

As for the bloke from Blighty, he may not find isosceles to be natural, but most other sources I've seen agree that, no matter what someone is trained to use at the range, in an actual engagement the tendency is to face the assailant straight on, bend the knees and crouch down slightly, and assume an isosceles stance.

[Ben]

So how is the C.A.R. system fundamentally different from a Weaver stance?

Well, one big difference is that, AFAIK, Weaver isn't taught right hand - left eye, and vice versa.

I sometimes try shooting "new isosceles", but after 35 years of shooting modified Weaver, it's the stance I find myself in when I "don't think, shoot". Of course Weaver was the rage (much due to Jeff Cooper) at the time I started shooting defensive pistols as a replacement to the isosceles that the "old-timers" used. Now isosceles is the replacement to the Weaver stance the "old-timers" use. Twenty years from now some hot shot shooter will use another modified Weaver, make it popular, and that will be the stance of choice.

I figure shoot whatever way gets your rounds where they need to go, quickly and efficiently. I don't know that I could get good with CAR as a standard stance, though I can see a value to it in a situation like sitting in your car and having to shoot a potential carjacker from either side. Otherwise it looks more like it's designed for operators (the real ones).

[Perd Hapley]

So is this thread a shooting stance dance, or is it about escapist action film?

[Ben]

So is this thread a shooting stance dance, or is it about escapist action film?

This is APS. What do you think? 

[BlueStarLizzard]

is okay, Ben. I shoot Weaver (slightly modified)

My Dad is in the same boat as you and since he taught me to shoot, that's how I shoot.

I tried the new isosceles and I can't do it. A couple minutes in and I start getting the twinge that indicates that if I don't stand up straight that second, I'm going to be in mucho pain.

As far as I figure, there is no one stance for everyone anymore than their is one pistol for everyone. New isosceles is not for top heavy people with a bad back.

[Perd Hapley]

...after 35 years of shooting modified Weaver, it's the stance I find myself in when I "don't think, shoot".

I haven't been shooting nearly that long, especially not pistols, but I'm the same way. I've tried isosceles lately, but I always find myself slipping back into something Weaverish.

If isosceles is more natural, then I guess the point is that it's easier to just train people to shoot from the stance they'd naturally assume. But if the person is already in the habit of going all Weaver, is it helpful to try to retrain them?

[Boomhauer]

C.A.R. looks cool, but practically has some issues. namely when you are in the stance, you are creating a blind spot that will hinder you. It doesn't really help with the recoil and doesn't improve hits on target.

Personally I think isocoles or a modified weaver stance is more practical and instinctual, and doesn't create the visibility issues C.A.R. does.

C.A.R. may advantegous in some very limited situations, such as seated in a vehicle. But for overall shooting, it's not the best choice. It's being chosen for movies purely because it looks cool and fast.

 

[freakazoid]

So is this thread a shooting stance dance, or is it about escapist action film?

I thought this was a thread about dogs.

[Blakenzy]

Holy crap just tried that C.A.R. thingy... made me dizzy and ache all over. Maybe I'm beggining to get old. Anyhow, I don't think traditional handgun design lends itself well to that posture. maybe a rearrangement in sight location would help 

[Jamisjockey]

My issue with CAR is it blocks so much of your field of vision.  I just don't see how that is a valid fighting technique when you lose so much of your fov.

[Ben]

CAR also seems like something you would have to train and practice in a LOT. Frankly, I'd be afraid of potentially shooting myself in some of the close to body CAR maneuvers if I was in a high stress situation. Again, it may be a great, even superior, system for snake eaters, but limited application for your average CCW holder.

Not that I'm not going to try it out (slowly) the next time I'm at the range. :)