Author Topic: Interesting Vehicle A/C Filter and a Question  (Read 1792 times)

Ben

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Interesting Vehicle A/C Filter and a Question
« on: May 17, 2015, 06:07:41 PM »
Long story, but bear with me, as I'm sure there's stuff youz guyz can make fun of me for.  :laugh:

So for the last couple of weeks, I've noticed an odd odor in my 4Runner when I turn on the A/C. Stronger initially, but then got better after a few minutes of running, until this week when it has just gotten worse. For the life of me,  I could have sworn the smell was of cow manure, and coincidentally, we had just spread manure on the 40 acres by the house a few weeks ago. My thought was that maybe when I drove down one of the back roads, somehow some manure chunks had shot up from under the tires into the engine compartment, and the odor was going through the vent system. I looked everywhere under the hood and the underside though, and saw nothing.

This morning it was absolutely unbearable. I was driving into town and so did some experimenting. I could smell it fairly strongly with just the vent on. Much stronger when the A/C was on. Then I turned the heater on full blast and got no discernible smell. Then I got home and Googled. There were lots of posts regarding mold, etc. and how to get rid of it, and then also some about, "first try to replace the cabin air filter". Aha! This is the first vehicle I've owned with a cabin filter, so I had completely forgotten about it. I only have a tad over 10K miles though, and normal replacement is listed as 20K, so I didn't get all excited that this would do anything. I figured, "Let's check it first, and see what it looks like." Well, I checked it, and refer to the image below:





My first thought was, "This looks like a mouse tried to make a nest". But how the hell would a mouse get into the cabin air filtration system? It seemed impossible. Plus there was no dead mouse in the filter, so what the hell?  Nevertheless, the filter was obviously a mess, and I detected the odor I was smelling in the cabin. So in too much of a hurry to order from Amazon,  I ran into town and let myself get gouged for a $15 Chinese filter.

So now I'm ready to install the filter, but the filter instructions say, "point arrow down in direction of airflow". That didn't seem right, so I checked the manual, which said, "Point arrow UP in direction of airflow". Okay, who's right? Only one way to find out Ben - turn on the engine and stick your hand in the slot to see which direction the flow is going. Which is what I did. And then this levitated up above the fan with the air pressure:




So it was a freakin' mouse after all, but I still have no idea how he got into the cabin filter.

Anyway, I replaced the filter, sprayed some Lysol down the intake vents by the windshield, and let the car run with the A/C on for 15 minutes. The smell is already pretty much gone. Now I'll let it sit overnight and check again tomorrow to be sure. You can be sure that I'm going to be checking that damn filter every 5K miles from now on, and for as cheap as they are, replacing the dang thing annually.

But this brings me to my actual question: Is there any big variability in these filters? I see an array of them on Amazon, some simple "OEM replacements" and others touting charcoal filtering. I know that charcoal elements can make a big difference in household air purifiers (I have a couple of them), but are they worth the extra money for a vehicle filter, or is it just better to replace the cheaper OEM filter more frequently?
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Brad Johnson

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Re: Interesting Vehicle A/C Filter and a Question
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2015, 06:26:16 PM »
Relatively easy for critters to enter on the fresh air side as mice can squeeze through amazingly small openings.

OEM filters will be made to a specific filtration spec. Cheap no-name aftermarket units? Crap shoot. I've seen seen decent units, but I've also seen air filters that look like they were made from actual paper towels. I'd stick with either OEM or a known-brand replacement (Wix, Purolator, etc.) sourced from a reputable vendor. If you buy on Amazon make sure to get a "sold and shipped by Amazon" product. I've seen several instances where third-party vendors selling through the Amazon marketplace were, shall we say, less than honest about their product's authenticity and/or quality.

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« Last Edit: May 17, 2015, 07:49:30 PM by Brad Johnson »
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Ben

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Re: Interesting Vehicle A/C Filter and a Question
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2015, 07:24:37 PM »
Relatively easy for critters to enter on the fresh air side as mice can squeeze through amazingly small openings.

Apparently so. It was bugging me how he got in, so I was just in the garage with a flashlight and found an area of the firewall just in front of the glove box (filter location) that had some kind of fiberboard molded around the air intake. There was about a 1/2" gap over several inches of the molding cut that opened up an area between the fiberboard and the firewall. Sure enough, I found mouse crap in a crease along the bottom of the firewall directly below that gap. So the little critter must have squeezed through that, and then somewhere behind it, there must have been another opening leading to the filter housing.

Anyway, I duct taped that up, so hopefully it's a deterrent.
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230RN

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Re: Interesting Vehicle A/C Filter and a Question
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2015, 04:51:43 AM »
They say to use coarse steel wool or something like that to keep them from chewing their way through the plug/barrier anyhow.  Those copper/stainless steel/whatever pot scrubbers would work, too, I guess.

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K Frame

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Re: Interesting Vehicle A/C Filter and a Question
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2015, 07:21:26 AM »
Mouse urine and droppings can harbor some amazingly nasty pathogens. You may want to invest in a HEPA filter, or having the whole system sanitized.
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Ben

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Re: Interesting Vehicle A/C Filter and a Question
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2015, 09:51:20 AM »
Mouse urine and droppings can harbor some amazingly nasty pathogens. You may want to invest in a HEPA filter, or having the whole system sanitized.

Yeah, that became an immediate concern. Not to mention the thought of having potentially breathed in Hanta virus for the last couple of weeks. While all the damage to the filter was on the "outside" side, finding the mouse in the fan was disconcerting. He (hopefully not "she") might have just dropped in there when I pulled out the filter, but if not, I'm sure there's urine and feces on the cabin side of the system. I've been looking for products to spray through the system, but so far all I've found just mention odor, not sanitizing.

An interesting couple of points I found while searching include that "Toyotas and rodents" brings up a LOT of hits.

Reason #1 is that the fresh air intake that leads right to the cabin filter is an exposed approximately 4" x 8" opening directly under the windshield cowling on most newer Toyotas. There were lots of photos showing where people had attached 1/8" wire mesh. I think I'm going to do the same.

Reason #2 apparently affects Toyotas and a few other manufacturers that have "gone green". Apparently the organic materials they use for insulation and plastic replacement are filled with organics that are on the "gourmet list" of rodents.
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Ben

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Re: Interesting Vehicle A/C Filter and a Question
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2015, 10:06:30 AM »
Additionally, and I'm not sure why it would make a difference (and maybe it's just my imagination) but I checked this morning and I still smelled slight-moderate "dead rodent" when the fresh air vent was on, but when I turned the A/C on, no smell. It seemed like prior to swapping the filter, I was smelling the "manure" smell (which was likely a combo of feces and urine in the filter) much, much more when the A/C was on, and not much at all when just the vent was on.
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230RN

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Re: Interesting Vehicle A/C Filter and a Question
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2015, 10:25:06 AM »
Mouse urine and droppings can harbor some amazingly nasty pathogens. You may want to invest in a HEPA filter, or having the whole system sanitized.

I think that was "hantavirus" or something like that.  Had a couple of cases in CO a couple of years ago with folks sweeping out their stables and raising dust which contained that from the mouse droppings.
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Brad Johnson

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Re: Interesting Vehicle A/C Filter and a Question
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2015, 11:25:51 AM »
Low-concentration exposure over the course of a couple weeks shouldn't be a concern for a healthy adult. Farm/ranch folks who contracted it breathing significant concentrations in a short time.

Brad
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Re: Interesting Vehicle A/C Filter and a Question
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2015, 12:50:28 PM »
Mouse urine and droppings can harbor some amazingly nasty pathogens. You may want to invest in a HEPA filter cat....
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Re: Interesting Vehicle A/C Filter and a Question
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2015, 01:17:08 PM »
I knew a guy who had his prius wire harness chewed by rabbits at the DFW airport long term parking. Apparently they leave older vehicles alone but the new ones use soy-based wire insulation or something.
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Ben

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Re: Interesting Vehicle A/C Filter and a Question
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2015, 10:31:47 PM »
Crap. Found another nest directly under the blower fan when I popped off a cover directly beneath the glove box. Lots of poop and pee on the panel, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed that this is the last place they visited and that this is where the remainder of the odor was coming from.

Anyway, on the inside of this cover is a fiber material of some kind. It only covers the portion of the panel directly below the blower motor. Image is below. Can anyone identify what this material is? I want to see if it's some simple fiber insulation I can buy at Lowes or wherever and cut to fit, or if it has some special properties (e.g., fire resistance) that would require me to order a replacement from the dealer.

EDIT: An Internet search indicates this may be simple acoustic insulation. Sound about right? Where would one buy that?



« Last Edit: May 18, 2015, 10:58:48 PM by Ben »
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Ben

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Re: Interesting Vehicle A/C Filter and a Question
« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2015, 11:35:06 PM »
http://www.amazon.com/Automotive-Sound-Noise-Insulation-Padding/dp/B006LNWE7W

Thanks Charby. I shoulda known Amazon would have something. That looks like it would be less tasty to mice as well. :)

I'll need to poke around and see if they have any smaller quantities. The piece I need to replace is only around 6" x 8".
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Ben

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Re: Interesting Vehicle A/C Filter and a Question
« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2015, 11:59:30 PM »
Thinking about it, if it's nothing more than run of the mill insulation, I think I have an old blue ensolite sleeping pad laying around somewhere. Maybe I'll just cut a piece off that and call it good.
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K Frame

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Re: Interesting Vehicle A/C Filter and a Question
« Reply #15 on: May 19, 2015, 09:01:56 AM »
I think that was "hantavirus" or something like that.  Had a couple of cases in CO a couple of years ago with folks sweeping out their stables and raising dust which contained that from the mouse droppings.

No. Not just Hanta.

The bigger concerns are Leptospirosis and Tularemia, which are bacterial in nature and are apparently easier to contract that Hanta.
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Re: Interesting Vehicle A/C Filter and a Question
« Reply #16 on: May 19, 2015, 09:35:16 AM »
Atrip to a doc, might not be a bad idea either...
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Ben

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Re: Interesting Vehicle A/C Filter and a Question
« Reply #17 on: May 19, 2015, 09:43:25 AM »
Atrip to a doc, might not be a bad idea either...

It happens that I have an appointment for a physical next week, so I will surely bring this up.
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Re: Interesting Vehicle A/C Filter and a Question
« Reply #18 on: May 19, 2015, 05:18:01 PM »
Additionally, and I'm not sure why it would make a difference (and maybe it's just my imagination) but I checked this morning and I still smelled slight-moderate "dead rodent" when the fresh air vent was on, but when I turned the A/C on, no smell. It seemed like prior to swapping the filter, I was smelling the "manure" smell (which was likely a combo of feces and urine in the filter) much, much more when the A/C was on, and not much at all when just the vent was on.

That's because your vent draws in fresh air from the outside while your A/C draws air from the inside if you have it set to recirculation (or you can set it to draw from the outside).

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Re: Interesting Vehicle A/C Filter and a Question
« Reply #19 on: May 19, 2015, 06:17:30 PM »
If you have a car stereo shop around you should be able to get a piece of that stuff without getting a whole roll.
They pad the crap out of the cars when the put the subs in.
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Ben

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Re: Interesting Vehicle A/C Filter and a Question
« Reply #20 on: May 19, 2015, 07:39:03 PM »
That's because your vent draws in fresh air from the outside while your A/C draws air from the inside if you have it set to recirculation (or you can set it to draw from the outside).



I actually keep the A/C on outside air most of the time, driving through LA or past dairy farms being an exception.  :laugh:

Things seemed a bit better this morning since I found and eliminated that second nest. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the mouse confined himself to that pocket of the dash. We'll see if the smell stays away over the next week.
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Ben

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Re: Interesting Vehicle A/C Filter and a Question
« Reply #21 on: May 19, 2015, 07:40:27 PM »
If you have a car stereo shop around you should be able to get a piece of that stuff without getting a whole roll.
They pad the crap out of the cars when the put the subs in.

There's a Best Buy with a car stereo shop right down the street. Thanks for the tip. I'll hit them up if the ensolite doesn't work.
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