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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Interesting piece on the trade agreement
« on: June 12, 2015, 02:19:57 AM »
Explains things better than sessions or warrens crowd
http://thefederalist.com/2015/06/09/top-nine-myths-about-trade-promotion-authority-and-the-trans-pacific-partnership/


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RocketMan

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Re: Interesting piece on the trade agreement
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2015, 06:20:13 AM »
It's curious how the Federalist, or anyone for that matter, can write such a definitive article about what the trade agreement really contains when the contents of the agreement are still secret and unpublished.
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If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

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vaskidmark

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Re: Interesting piece on the trade agreement
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2015, 06:22:24 AM »
Calming.  But I'm still in  [tinfoil] mode until someone can convince me that once approved treaties need any further Congressional approval, or that implementation acts can be withheld.

stay safe.
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If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege.

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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Interesting piece on the trade agreement
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2015, 01:42:34 PM »
Quote from: RocketMan on June 12, 2015, 06:20:13 AM
It's curious how the Federalist, or anyone for that matter, can write such a definitive article about what the trade agreement really contains when the contents of the agreement are still secret and unpublished.
In fact they do not address the agreement itself which is still in the making. They do address the waves of zomg put out by the usual suspects as well as the fundamental constitutional issues.
Heck I think for many folks just finding out they were in lock step with fauxchohantas would be the first big clue. Keith Ellison on my side? I need to check where I am standing and what I am standing in


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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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makattak

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Re: Interesting piece on the trade agreement
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2015, 02:04:06 PM »
Quote from: cassandra and sara's daddy on June 12, 2015, 01:42:34 PM
In fact they do not address the agreement itself which is still in the making. They do address the waves of zomg put out by the usual suspects as well as the fundamental constitutional issues.
Heck I think for many folks just finding out they were in lock step with fauxchohantas would be the first big clue. Keith Ellison on my side? I need to check where I am standing and what I am standing in


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I'm with Bobby Jindal on this: a president ought to have trade agreements voted up or down, sans amendments, because of the nature of negotiations.

THIS president, under no circumstances, should be given additional powers since he takes ones he does not rightly have.
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I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re:
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2015, 02:49:27 PM »
Do you see him taking additional powers?
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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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makattak

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Re: Interesting piece on the trade agreement
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2015, 02:55:33 PM »
Quote from: cassandra and sara's daddy on June 12, 2015, 02:49:27 PM
Do you see him taking additional powers?

In this instance or in general?
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I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Interesting piece on the trade agreement
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2015, 04:00:34 PM »
This case. The article seemed to refute that


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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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makattak

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Re: Interesting piece on the trade agreement
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2015, 04:17:11 PM »
Quote from: cassandra and sara's daddy on June 12, 2015, 04:00:34 PM
This case. The article seemed to refute that


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He's not taking new powers. He's being granted them by Congress.

Yes, Congress hasn't given him all powers, but with this bill, they are giving up the power to offer amendments to any treaty, a power they have long had.

I think that power is one that is detrimental to executive negotiating, but that power has been Congress's. Despite what the article claims, that is what the TPA is doing. (Notice, he doesn't address this point. He only says that Congress still gets to vote on the treaty! Well, yes, but few I've read claimed that they were giving up that power- though I'm sure some were confused.)

It IS a new power, or a diminution of congress's power, however you wish to phrase it.
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I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Interesting piece on the trade agreement
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2015, 01:48:26 PM »
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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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HankB

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Re: Interesting piece on the trade agreement
« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2015, 11:01:14 AM »
I'm strongly inclined to oppose legislation I'm not allowed to read in advance . . . and I'm not impressed by the impassioned support of those who haven't read it themselves.
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Re: Re: Interesting piece on the trade agreement
« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2015, 11:45:41 AM »
Quote from: HankB on June 14, 2015, 11:01:14 AM
I'm strongly inclined to oppose legislation I'm not allowed to read in advance . . . and I'm not impressed by the impassioned support of those who haven't read it themselves.
This.  If they wont let me read it screw them where they breathe.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Interesting piece on the trade agreement
« Reply #12 on: June 14, 2015, 11:46:13 AM »
Quote from: HankB on June 14, 2015, 11:01:14 AM
I'm strongly inclined to oppose legislation I'm not allowed to read in advance . . . and I'm not impressed by the impassioned support of those who haven't read it themselves.

^^^ This, exactly.

If it's going to be good for us, why not let us read it beforehand so we can inform our elected representatives how we -- their CONSTITUENTS --  would like them to vote on it. (Not that they'd pay any attention to said comments, but they could at least pay lip service to the process.)
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100% Politically Incorrect by Design

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Interesting piece on the trade agreement
« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2015, 11:53:22 AM »
Quote from: HankB on June 14, 2015, 11:01:14 AM
I'm strongly inclined to oppose legislation I'm not allowed to read in advance . . . and I'm not impressed by the impassioned support of those who haven't read it themselves.

Do you not understand that the agreement will be open for review for at least a month before the vote? Or not believe it? Or?....


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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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roo_ster

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Re: Re: Interesting piece on the trade agreement
« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2015, 12:09:30 PM »
Quote from: cassandra and sara's daddy on June 14, 2015, 11:53:22 AM
Do you not understand that the agreement will be open for review for at least a month before the vote? Or not believe it? Or?....


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Do you not understand that one month is not long enough to evaluate contemporary legislation or treaties?

These mega bills and such are composed by scores of folk who include obfuscation as an objective.
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RocketMan

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Re: Interesting piece on the trade agreement
« Reply #15 on: June 14, 2015, 01:59:24 PM »
Quote from: cassandra and sara's daddy on June 14, 2015, 11:53:22 AM
Do you not understand that the agreement will be open for review for at least a month before the vote? Or not believe it? Or?....

In a closed room someplace where you can't take notes, and only if you're a congress critter, like it currently is?  If it needs to be secret at this stage of the game, it doesn't need to be legislation.
Too bad tar and feathers are so damn expensive.
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If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

Liberals believe one should never let reason, logic and facts get in the way of a good emotional argument.

roo_ster

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Re: Interesting piece on the trade agreement
« Reply #16 on: June 14, 2015, 04:45:06 PM »
From instapundit:
http://pjmedia.com/instapundit/208539/
Quote
WHY AMERICANS ARE TURNING AGAINST FREE TRADE: When the proceeds of growth are not widely shared, the consensus in favor of pro-growth measures cracks.

I also think that (1) we’ve reached the point of diminishing returns, since trade is pretty free already; and (2) both political parties are so un-trusted that everyone is suspicious of passing big new catch-all agreements with lots of unread fine-print, especially when lobbyists have been laboring for years.

Linky in quote:
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/06/-tpp-tpa-defeated/395792/

csd:

Teams of gov't drones and lobbyists had YEARS to polish the fine print.  We might have a MONTH to suss out all the fine print and implications.  Screw that noise.

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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Interesting piece on the trade agreement
« Reply #17 on: June 14, 2015, 08:25:29 PM »
I read the aca in 5 days this can't be worse than that.... " shudder"


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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Interesting piece on the trade agreement
« Reply #18 on: June 15, 2015, 02:39:34 AM »
This one really has me conflicted.
1st the very idea or "secret" legislation is outrageous in itself.
2nd the Democrats don't seem to like it at all so maybe it isn't so bad.
3rd Obama wants it so maybe it isn't so good.

Without being able to read the measure I've got to come down in the "against it" category.
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De Selby

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Re: Interesting piece on the trade agreement
« Reply #19 on: June 15, 2015, 02:50:21 AM »
Quote from: cassandra and sara's daddy on June 14, 2015, 08:25:29 PM
I read the aca in 5 days this can't be worse than that.... " shudder"


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How many pages per minute did you read to complete that over 5 days?  Have you crunched how many pages of legislation that was against time to read? http://computationallegalstudies.com/2009/11/facts-about-the-length-of-h-r-3962/

There is a simple reason why people on both sides of the aisle are supporting the TPP - it serves the interests of all multinational companies.  Party funding crosses all ideological bounds.

The material leaked so far screams out for public scrutiny of the whole thing.

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roo_ster

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Re: Interesting piece on the trade agreement
« Reply #20 on: June 15, 2015, 07:30:30 AM »
Taa that went down...and ryan and boehner still want...is financed by tripling the penalties on small businesses that make paperwork errors on the 1099s they file:
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/06/14/gop-leaderships-latest-obamatrade-ploy-revealed-small-business-tax-hike-that-violates-gops-anti-tax-pledge/

This was learned only after it failed friday.
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roo_ster

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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Interesting piece on the trade agreement
« Reply #21 on: June 15, 2015, 08:47:26 AM »
You wonder why brietbart was a lil vague about the specifics on the zomg fines?  Me too
I understand their need now
http://smallbusiness.chron.com/happens-1099s-filed-late-18373.html


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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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vaskidmark

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Re: Interesting piece on the trade agreement
« Reply #22 on: June 15, 2015, 09:46:14 AM »
Quote from: cassandra and sara's daddy on June 14, 2015, 08:25:29 PM
I read the aca in 5 days this can't be worse than that.... " shudder"


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Ha!  I read it in 4 1/2, so there!!

But I'm still doing the cross-referencing to see if and/or how it fits together and where/how it changes things that are not big-and-bold obvious.

It's like speed-reading "War and Peace" - you get to the end of the story without ever knowing who is related to whom or how.  And IMHO that is half (or better) of the story.

stay safe.
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If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege.

Hey you kids!! Get off my lawn!!!

They keep making this eternal vigilance thing harder and harder.  Protecting the 2nd amendment is like playing PACMAN - there's no pause button so you can go to the bathroom.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Interesting piece on the trade agreement
« Reply #23 on: June 15, 2015, 12:18:59 PM »
Yea that was the worst part.  Trying to fit the puzzle pieces together


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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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