Linux Mint

[Ben]

I've been using Linux Mint as a VM for a few months now, ever since a few of you recommended it. I am really liking it! MUCH better than the latest Ubuntu versions, especially on speed and efficiency. Plus unlike Ubuntu, when I do Virtualbox updates, I no longer have to go through command line inputs to resize the screen resolution. It shows up correctly every time. I'm also using it on my travel laptop, mounting from USB for internet surfing on airport, coffee shop, etc connections. Super fast boot up time.

Anyway, recommended.

On a tangent, I'm now hating Win8 in Virtualbox. I tried doing the Win10 upgrade to it a while back, and for whatever reason, it's not supported in Virtualbox (also discussed here when I was having problems - apparently it works fine in VMWare). Anyway, ever since Win10 failed to install and it rolled back to Win8, it's been doggy and glitchy. I think I'm gonna kill the VM and reinstall with an extra copy of Win7 I have laying around.

[RevDisk]

If you have Win7, there is absolutely zero reason to use Win8 or 10 unless you have a Surface tablet.

Mint is good for desktops. For servers, I prefer RHEL or CentOS. One major problem is that RHEL/CentOS and Debian/Mint have drunk the Koolaid and now use systemd on the latest release. I'm just hoping systemd implodes before I need to upgrade. Replacing init with systemd is pretty much like petting a chainsaw. Sure it gives your living room new shiny colors and has lots of other useful features (lower body weight, better modular design, lubricating your chainsaw, doing a fluid refresh on your entire body, etc), but you just lost your hand.

[Ben]

Yeah, the host runs Win7, and I have no intentions of moving off that. I just had the Win8 VM mostly just to play with it, and while still working, used it  on telecommute days to test modifications I'd make to the aerial survey software I was using, since they wouldn't let me put a VM on my flying laptop. Nowdays I really don't have much of a use for a Windows VM, other than "for the hell of it".

Good to know on the Mint. I'll avoid updating, as my current version is running swell.

[zahc]

Ubuntu proper went south years ago. Very sad. I have been running mint XFCE or just plain old Debian. Although now that they are systemd, I am thinking about trying FreeBSD.

[GigaBuist]

One major problem is that RHEL/CentOS and Debian/Mint have drunk the Koolaid and now use systemd on the latest release. I'm just hoping systemd implodes before I need to upgrade.

RedHat employs Poettering, mastermind of systemd, so they're not likely to drop it.  Debian surprises the snot out of me with picking up on it.

Poettering also got us PulseAudio.  I've never found that all too useful, even had to rip it out of my Ubuntu cash registers to make audio work in Java.  My Ubuntu 14.04 desktop with PulseAudio can't play a CD without skipping.

I don't like systemd but I'll give it a fair shake in trials.  First thing I found out when using it is every 3 seconds my main systemd log "file" has a notification of a time change.  Fixing that requires a source code change of systemd and recompile.  *head desk*  Yeah, this is ready for prime time!

The time changes constantly because it's a guest VM. Did Poettering never bother running his stuff in a VM or does he think constant reminders about millisecond time drift is useful in the log files?  Why the heck would RedHat/Debian/Ubuntu/etc let this into their releases? It's a 1 line fix in source code to shove that down into a 'debug' level, although it should be a config option somewhere, but nobody's doing it right.  They're just letting Poeterring make up a bunch of new crap.

[GigaBuist]

Although now that they are systemd, I am thinking about trying FreeBSD.

I am also seriously considering moving my MySQL servers to FreeBSD over the systemd mess.  So far I'm having less fits with FreeBSD VMs than I am with Ubuntu 15.04 w/ systemd.  I can make it work, it's not that, but I like being very comfortable with my systems and I don't get that with systemd.

For those on the outside looking in it's like this:  Linux with sys-V init is my wife.  BSD's init is like her sister that looks a lot like her.  They're so close you don't even notice you switched if it's dark.  This systemd stuff is like Caitlyn Jenner.  Suddenly EVERYTHING is different and nobody knows why the heck we're all playing with new junk.

[Battle Monkey of Zardoz]

I've heard MINT is Windows like. I'm getting ready to try it.

What ever happened to the distribution that was "Apple OS" like. As in almost a rip off.

[lee n. field]

I've heard MINT is Windows like. I'm getting ready to try it.

What ever happened to the distribution that was "Apple OS" like. As in almost a rip off.

ElementOS.  It may have been renamed by now.  I installed it once.  Underwhelmed.

Mint.  Hmm.  I think I'll try it.  I've got two backup laptops (everything here is random scavenged hardware), both now running Debian, the testing track.  On one, with the latest kernel upgrade, won't boot.  So, maybe through Mint on there instead.

[RevDisk]

I am also seriously considering moving my MySQL servers to FreeBSD over the systemd mess.  So far I'm having less fits with FreeBSD VMs than I am with Ubuntu 15.04 w/ systemd.  I can make it work, it's not that, but I like being very comfortable with my systems and I don't get that with systemd.

For those on the outside looking in it's like this:  Linux with sys-V init is my wife.  BSD's init is like her sister that looks a lot like her.  They're so close you don't even notice you switched if it's dark.  This systemd stuff is like Caitlyn Jenner.  Suddenly EVERYTHING is different and nobody knows why the heck we're all playing with new junk.

Other thing is, init runs on well, just about anything theoretically. systemd is Linux centric. In fairness, init is old and has a lot of limitations because new tech has been created since it came into being. We really do need an init 2.0 to address all the missing features. I still have never gotten an answer of why all the major distros moved to systemd? I haven't met anyone that liked it. At best people were "meh".

I also gave it a shake. I didn't like it. It's not Vista/Win8.0 bad, but it's pretty bad. Most of the "benefits" people tell me are pretty big negatives.

Them: "Logs are stored in binary file! Virtually the only thing that reads it is journactl, it's susceptible to corruption, but it's fast to index!"
Me: "wut?"
Them: "It handles logins!"
Me: "Why..?"
Them: "It's a complex design and tries to do everything, but it's clean and efficient!"
Me: "But... those are opposite..."
Them: "We ditched cron and wrote our own non-standard thing, because screw anything not Linux."
Me: "You're [bleeping] with me now."

[Battle Monkey of Zardoz]

ElementOS.  It may have been renamed by now.  I installed it once.  Underwhelmed.

Mint.  Hmm.  I think I'll try it.  I've got two backup laptops (everything here is random scavenged hardware), both now running Debian, the testing track.  On one, with the latest kernel upgrade, won't boot.  So, maybe through Mint on there instead.

I don't think it was ElementOS. IIRC it was Pear Linux.

[Regolith]

ElementOS.  It may have been renamed by now.  I installed it once.  Underwhelmed.

Mint.  Hmm.  I think I'll try it.  I've got two backup laptops (everything here is random scavenged hardware), both now running Debian, the testing track.  On one, with the latest kernel upgrade, won't boot.  So, maybe through Mint on there instead.

ElementOS was a media-center thing that's pretty much dead. I think you meant elementary OS, which is pretty Mac-like.

[zahc]

Other thing is, init runs on well, just about anything theoretically. systemd is Linux centric. In fairness, init is old and has a lot of limitations because new tech has been created since it came into being. We really do need an init 2.0 to address all the missing features. I still have never gotten an answer of why all the major distros moved to systemd? I haven't met anyone that liked it. At best people were "meh".

I also gave it a shake. I didn't like it. It's not Vista/Win8.0 bad, but it's pretty bad. Most of the "benefits" people tell me are pretty big negatives.

Them: "Logs are stored in binary file! Virtually the only thing that reads it is journactl, it's susceptible to corruption, but it's fast to index!"
Me: "wut?"
Them: "It handles logins!"
Me: "Why..?"
Them: "It's a complex design and tries to do everything, but it's clean and efficient!"
Me: "But... those are opposite..."
Them: "We ditched cron and wrote our own non-standard thing, because screw anything not Linux."
Me: "You're [bleeping] with me now."

The only reason needed to hate systemd is that it's an abandonment of Unix principles. It might "work" fine, but its still a well-working non-unix OS's. Whatever advantage it has could not be worth it. Or maybe it is for some people, but not for me. Unix sucks, but Unix has worked for a very long time. It's like the democracy of OS's...the worst OS except all the rest. You will have a very hard time convincing me you have a problem that Unix fails to silve so bad that you have to rewrite a core subsystem of it. Systemd will eventually reimplement all the functionality of unix maybe in slightly different ways and the best possible outcome will be zero practical progress but new bugs.

"Contempt for history is what makes computing not-quite-a-field"-EWD


Also, pulseaudio was a great concept that broke my sound for months to years. I can't believe the guy is even allowed near the kernel.

[Calumus]

I don't think it was ElementOS. IIRC it was Pear Linux.

It was Pear. I had my father running it. It was actually a nice distro until Apple went after the French company that made it. Once the updates stopped coming, I switched him over to Mint and Cinnamon.