HHO kits?

[MechAg94]

http://www.hhokitsdirect.com/pages/how-does-this-hho-work

I was sent this link about electrolysis kits for cars to enhance fuel efficiency.  I had not heard of people using this that way.  I guess it is supposed to enhance combustion and get better efficiency.  I thought some of you might be familiar with it. 

I am trying to figure what regular maintenance would be required on something like this even if it did work.  Cleaning out the water chamber, checking for leaks, etc.  You would to have a very flammable gas generated under the hood.  I also don't know how much power would be required.  Would a standard alternator be able to handle it?

[HeroHog]

Snake oil of the highest order. Don't waste yer time bud.

[Brad Johnson]

Hog beat me to it.

Brad

[AmbulanceDriver]

Snake oil of the highest order. Don't waste yer time bud.

This - if I remember correctly, the amount of energy required to break the bonds is greater than the energy released by reforming the  bonds during combustion.

[Nick1911]

Snake oil of the highest order. Don't waste yer time bud.

This.

[HankB]

If you put cow magnets on the fuel line, you'll align the molecules via diamagnetic cohesion and improve combustion efficiency.

And placing a scale mode of the Great Pyramid of Giza above your carburetor (or EFI control unit for a more modern vehicle) will tap into the mystical energy of Amon Ra to double your gas mileage.

And don't forget to add the tungsten hydro catalyst.

Put all these together, and you'll have to empty your gas tank frequently to keep it from overflowing, since your fuel use will be cut by over 100%.





 

[BobR]

And placing a scale mode of the Great Pyramid of Giza above your carburetor (or EVI control unit for a more modern vehicle) will tap into the mystical energy of Amon Ra to double your gas mileage.

Actually all I use is a crystal hanging from the mirror to focus "good" energy down into the drive train, so far it seems to be working.


bob

[lupinus]

You forgot put a doflinky in your air intake, so it creates a magical vortex of air into your combustion chamber.

[Perd Hapley]

Are the Rods of Ra included in the kit?

[MechAg94]

i was sent the link by someone I know asking what I thought about it.  I hadn't ever seen this application.  The only one I have seen was someone using a blow torch supplied by something like this.  I notice the site doesn't mention how much power is required.  Even if real, I would think you would need a lot of water to put enough gas into the engine to do any good over hours of driving. 

[dogmush]

This - if I remember correctly, the amount of energy required to break the bonds is greater than the energy released by reforming the  bonds during combustion.

It's almost as if there's some kind of law about energy, and its being conserved..............

[Calumus]

Sounds like the electric super charger that a friend of mine was dead set on buying off of ebay before his old car died.

[charby]

Are the Rods of Ra included in the kit?

Beat me to it

[brimic]

The energy balance is not favorable.

A dozen or so years ago a few of my coworkers were experimenting with 'hydrogen generators' for their cars made from about $30 worth of pvc pipe, fittings, and electrodes. They were claiming better gas mileage right up until the point where one of the cars had an electrical fire and the guy had to sit on the side of the road and watch his car burn- insurance didn't cover it.

[230RN]

I'm not proposing that electrolysis of water may work, but there are some weird effects that have been used to enhance performance.

One obvious one is injection of plain old water (or sometimes an alcohol-water mix) into engines --which was used in some fighter aircraft during WWII, and still is in some cases.  Even today.  I'm sure HeroHog can comment on this.

One thing that I found interesting was piping some of the engine cooling water or exhaust gases into outside ducts on the aircraft so that these ducts formed simple ramjets.  I forgot what they called it... the "Guy's-name effect."  Its usefulness, as I recall, was somewhat chancy.  Apparently too much depended on exact configuration, placement, and cooling water/exhaust temp and such-like.  And from what I recall, any extra performance at high speed was usually negated overall by the drag of the "ramjet" apparatus at low speeds.

About three years ago there was a flap about "ramjet bullets" which were hollow.  Supposedly a ramjet effect took place which accelerated the bullet after it had left the barrel... and not like the Gyrojet rocket bullets we all ought to be familiar with by now.  

From what I could gather, the heat of the bullet accumulated during firing was used to heat the entry air at the nose, resulting in the ramjet effect.  I see where some experimentation has been done by the military on something similar on artillery shells.

I noticed somewhere that apparently the Russians had developed a hollow shotgun slug which was supposed to be especially deadly somehow, and it reminded me of those ramjet bullets.

So weird effects are still out there.

Whether they're worthwhile or not can only be determined by laboratory-setting experimentation.

Terry, 230RN

[Scout26]

Are the Rods of Ra included in the kit?

It's been a long time since I heard that term...Too long...

Anywho;

A friend is an American Airlines pile-it and a former Naval Reserve Aviator.    The old P-3 (which is what he flew) had a water injection system for the engines.  Apparently, it was frequently used for take-offs.  However, once airborne, the pile-its have very little to do but fly whatever pattern the subhunters in the back tell them to fly. 

My friend being bored on one long and un-interesting flight decided to see what would happen if you hit the water injectors while at cruising speed at altitude.

Fortunately, he was only able to do it to one of the four engines, as the all the bad things happening all at once in that engine precluded him from continuing the test on the remaining three functioning engines.

If I remember correctly what he told me, the only reason his reserve career didn't end once he safely landed the plane was that:

1) He had safely landed the plane.
2) There was a serve shortage of P-3 pilots Navy wide (mid-late 90's after the drawdown and purges under Clinton).
3) That engine was due for a major overhaul anyway, and just about all the parts that were suddenly missing and/or trashed were due to be replaced anyway.


   

[wmenorr67]

Make sure that you also change out the air in your tires from summer air to winter air soon.

[HeroHog]

Water injection is used to control pre-ignition. It allows for higher compression/boost/ignition advance on lower octane fuel than would normally be needed. Adding alcohol can give a little more umph but it's not a lot. I used water/alcohol injection on my Turbo cars with good results. The injection only kicked in under high boost conditions and, in my case, was metered/powered by boost pressure, the more boost pressure, the more juice was injected.
One cool side effect, on tear-down, the combustion chambers and piston would be spotless! The introduction of water into the combustion chamber would decarbonize them leaving them looking factory new!

[230RN]

I thought a lot of the beneficial effects of water injection were due to the expansion ratio of water to water vapor (steam).  

From what I recollect, the energy taken from the combustion to evaporate the water was far overwhelmed by the ~1800 to 1 expansion of the water's volume.

But back to the OP, sure, you can electrolyze water and keep the two gases in one collection container.  But that mixture is highly combustible explosive all by itself.  

As a similar example, you can keep a mixture of hydrogen and chlorine in a glass flask, but it is so sensitive that even a flash of light will make them recombine explosively.

In the same way, you can keep acetylene and air in the same container as long as nothing ignites it... (a dangerous experiment, by the way.)

OP:

I am trying to figure what regular maintenance would be required on something like this even if it did work.  Cleaning out the water chamber, checking for leaks, etc.  You would to have a very flammable gas generated under the hood.  I also don't know how much power would be required.  Would a standard alternator be able to handle it?

They say, "and is why we see the results Without violating any Laws of Thermodynamics in the process (sorry guys - there is no free energy in what we are doing - just good physics)."

But. as has been pointed out, the energy involved in generating "Brown's Gas" --even if external household current is used* --must be counted in the complete energy expenditure budget.  People forget that even headlights have a cost in miles per gallon.  Anything you hang off the electrical system costs.  As to whether a standard alternator would do it?  Too dependent on other factors to figure an all-around answer.

Terry

* Even AC can be used if you're not going to bother separating the two gases.  Each electrode will generate H on one half of the AC cycle, and then O on the other half.  The two will then bubble up to the surface, pre-mixed.  Incidentally, the lone Hs and the lone Os are called monatomic or "nascent" hydrogen and oxygen.  But like most gases, one nascent H will seek out another nascent H to form a molecule of H₂ and one nascent O will seek another nascent O to form a molecule of O₂.

Similarly, we see N₂, Cl₂,  etc.  AFAIK, the only gases which don't form molecules under ordinary circumstances are the "Noble" gases --xenon, neon, radon, etc.