How to treat transgender kids

[makattak]

I guess I should have pointed out that none of the kids I've seen in court have had any kind of surgery, and none are doing any hormones to become more male.  They dress in male fashion, and use a male name and male pronouns.  Of the five, one has truly significant mental health issues (beyond any gender identity issues).  That one has what I would call appropriate parents.  Two are in nasty divorce situations.  One has a single mother who uses the term "womyn."  The last is adopted out of an abusive home.

Sad, but not surprising.

[RevDisk]

I'd be inclined to treat them like the little retards they are.  I am sure that in most cases, it's their parents that are the real fruitcakes.

That is completely uncalled for. Many have significant mental health problems or other issues. Quite commonly there's abuse issues involved. Their parents may or may not indeed be fruitcakes, but that doesn't mean you should assume kids with mental health issues are "little retards". Granted folks doing it for attention or as a fad I am more inclined to agree with you on. Hilariously I did hear the term "trans trender" which is applicable. It's usually not the majority of such cases, exempting obvious cases like college campuses or whatnot.

Exempting folks that are indeed taking up this particular issue for attention or whatnot, are there any other folks with mental health problems you'd call "little retards" ?

[Firethorn]

Considering that Renee Richards was well beyond 18 when she transitioned and had the surgery, and many years later she admitted that she regretted having done so, I don't think even 18 is old enough. I know how immature my daughter is, emotionally, at 21. I suppose there has to be a threshold somewhere, but I think 18 is too young. Maybe 21 -- or 25 if we could get it past the social justice warriors.

Having read at least the abstracts of a number of studies about transition, the opposite is actually true.  On average, the younger they are when they transition, the happier they are with it.  Also on average, the newer the transition the happier they are.  The going theory there is that techniques have advanced greatly, so a sex change operation done in 2000 is much more 'complete' than one done in 1980.  A younger body is better able to withstand surgery.  Etc...

edit:  That's not to say that any given procedure will be considered successful or a failure.

[Ned Hamford]

Having read at least the abstracts of a number of studies about transition, the opposite is actually true.  On average, the younger they are when they transition, the happier they are with it.  Also on average, the newer the transition the happier they are.  The going theory there is that techniques have advanced greatly, so a sex change operation done in 2000 is much more 'complete' than one done in 1980.  A younger body is better able to withstand surgery.  Etc...

There is a trans-gendered person (M->F) whom I never defriended on facebook as they provide insight to the absurd; they became a gender studies prof at a very liberal local college.  The full transition was somewhat recent; I think last year.  Knowing only the datum from their facebook posts; bullying doctors and suffering 'random necrosis' is a reoccurring occurrence.  I know a few other trangendered (F->M) that are frankly far more mellow and less aggressive in their... everything; with some exception, people are people after all. My regular exposure sample set is slightly less than a dozen. 

By and large, I find all my existing prejudices well enforced by critical review of every study I've seen and what I've directly seen myself.  The poorly socially adjusted are poorly socially adjusted.  The monomaniacally fixated on any particular subject, be it gender/sexuality/race/economics/politics see all through that lens and while there may be some element of truth to the worldview, it is far from encompassing the whole of reality; often far from a merely functional reality at that. 

I think it sad/amusing that the same folks calling gender a social construct to be destroyed, are often enough the same calling for 80 more categories.   But of course they are also the identity politics folks...

This has been going around: a comparison to element rarity to gender identity
https://66.media.tumblr.com/9548a92bc7992137a8e900623a70cf0d/tumblr_o7ncb1fxeW1r1u36qo1_540.png
https://67.media.tumblr.com/bc03a5e335c0a189444408967153681f/tumblr_o7ncb1fxeW1r1u36qo8_540.png
https://67.media.tumblr.com/c4f1e9a03bb1adc7b0db782c88955977/tumblr_o7ncb1fxeW1r1u36qo7_540.png
https://66.media.tumblr.com/23622feb50d298d9cd1a280cad1985ee/tumblr_o7ncb1fxeW1r1u36qo2_540.png
https://66.media.tumblr.com/901eac23d34a15e7acea602761af7171/tumblr_o7ncb1fxeW1r1u36qo3_540.png
https://66.media.tumblr.com/a72698b055b6fb675fb44e2105e6dfb0/tumblr_o7ncb1fxeW1r1u36qo4_r1_540.png
https://68.media.tumblr.com/59a91ad3834ca97509c44b5405f7ed5d/tumblr_o7ncb1fxeW1r1u36qo10_r1_540.png
https://67.media.tumblr.com/d17244b05e4a7e9dd3a33dafcb1bcbfd/tumblr_o7ncb1fxeW1r1u36qo6_540.png
https://67.media.tumblr.com/f7328708f281c6852875172fe49f0eac/tumblr_o7ncb1fxeW1r1u36qo5_r1_540.png
https://68.media.tumblr.com/2e555b380f40b76dbaf4463765e16f12/tumblr_o7ncb1fxeW1r1u36qo9_r1_540.png

I rather like that quote: What of England knows, who only England knows.  I am after all a white middle class cis-gendered male. 

Rather like the STEMS and woman studies gap; I wonder if there is a preoccupation gap; that mono focus keeping those transgendered surgeons and engineers down, or some other obvious explanation.  Perhaps those self absorbed and obsessed having less outward focus and impact.  By the topics, you tend to be able to tell those at the rally for the purported purpose of the rally, vs those there to be at the rally. 

[Perd Hapley]

I think it sad/amusing that the same folks calling gender a social construct to be destroyed, are often enough the same calling for 80 more categories.

That's just one way they are waging war on gender. Anything that subverts the idea of gender as fixed and binary subverts the very concept of gender, itself.

The monomaniacally fixated on any particular subject, be it gender/sexuality/race/economics/politics see all through that lens and while there may be some element of truth to the worldview, it is far from encompassing the whole of reality; often far from a merely functional reality at that. 

G.K. Chesterton opined that the madman has no lack of reason. In fact, that's all he has. He inhabits a very small world, and he's reasoned it all out very well.

[Firethorn]

By and large, I find all my existing prejudices well enforced by critical review of every study I've seen and what I've directly seen myself.  The poorly socially adjusted are poorly socially adjusted.  The monomaniacally fixated on any particular subject, be it gender/sexuality/race/economics/politics see all through that lens and while there may be some element of truth to the worldview, it is far from encompassing the whole of reality; often far from a merely functional reality at that.

And I think you're vastly diverging from the subject of transgenders here, to people with political motivations.

Consider it like the difference between regular gun owners and open carry advocates. 

Also, a study such as I mentioned:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1158136006000491

And yes, they noted, in scientific wording, that if you were disturbed/crazy before the operation, you would be after as well.

[Ned Hamford]

Also, a study such as I mentioned:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1158136006000491
And yes, they noted, in scientific wording, that if you were disturbed/crazy before the operation, you would be after as well.

Damnable paywall... So going from the summary page...

Of the 107 Belgian sample group (all those that underwent sexual reassignment surgery from 1986-2001, and were still alive) 62 answered the questionnaires and submitted to interviews.  So round 58% of that set.  Aside from the sample size issues I'd say there is a major self selection problem.  I don't think reliable conclusions can be drawn.

"Results
On the GAF (DSM-IV) scale the female-to-male transsexuals scored significantly higher than the male-to-females (85.2 versus 76.2). While no difference in psychological functioning (SCL-90) was observed between the study group and a normal population, subjects with a pre-existing psychopathology were found to have retained more psychological symptoms. The subjects proclaimed an overall positive change in their family and social life. None of them showed any regrets about the SRS. A homosexual orientation, a younger age when applying for SRS, and an attractive physical appearance were positive prognostic factors.

Conclusion
While sex reassignment treatment is an effective therapy for transsexuals, also in the long term, the postoperative transsexual remains a fragile person in some respects."

So from their sample; it appears that underlying issues were less likely to be improved by reassignment surgery in comparison to the general population.  I can't read the paper directly, but I have strong suspicions that while it may not actually be cherry picked, if with the flaws you still probably only get to makes no difference mostly, on the macro this elective surgery for psychological reasons is something to be highly suspicious of... follow the money and politics ect.

But, libertarian inclinations and some transgendered friends associates; micro has the full thumbs up from me to the degree of fists and noses. 

[Jocassee]

whom I never defriended on facebook as they provide insight to the absurd;

This is about 20% of my facebook. Both liberal and "conservative."

[roo_ster]

This sort of debate is surreal to me. 

The idea of physically mutilating someone who is mentally ill is abhorrent and something out of mengele-meets-kinsley-land.  It has even less support in reasonable-reality-land than does transorbital lobotomy.

[Mannlicher]

evidently severe mental illness takes many forms, and is as often excused as dealt with.  Maybe it is just my imagination, but there appears to be about half of all Americans that are nutters these days.  Most of the other half enables them.

[De Selby]

This sort of debate is surreal to me.  

The idea of physically mutilating someone who is mentally ill is abhorrent and something out of mengele-meets-kinsley-land.  It has even less support in reasonable-reality-land than does transorbital lobotomy.

"Champ, don't be down at all, we'll just lop that hunk of meat off and get you some lipstick and you'll be right as rain!  Buck up Stev....I mean uh Suzie"