Author Topic: The Siege of Jadotville  (Read 2344 times)

Angel Eyes

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The Siege of Jadotville
« on: October 11, 2016, 01:41:50 AM »
I stumbled across this trailer on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_JHsiQTTmg&feature=youtu.be

Based on an incident in central Africa in 1961.

Looks like it has potential, especially if you have a fondness for FALs and submachine guns:



I might have to sign up for Netflix after all.


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Scout26

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Re: The Siege of Jadotville
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2016, 02:03:22 AM »
Also looks like a lot of bolt guns.  K98k's and SMLEs....
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HankB

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Re: The Siege of Jadotville
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2016, 07:55:20 AM »
The trailer made me think . . . they updated ZULU, one of my favorite movies?
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Jocassee

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Re: The Siege of Jadotville
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2016, 08:26:55 AM »
My brother watched it and said it was good. I hope to watch it this weekend.
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De Selby

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Re: The Siege of Jadotville
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2016, 08:31:50 AM »
Great flick, but given the setting I assumed the guns were all the producers could come up with in Ireland.

Surely they weren't using m1917 Brownings, apparently WWII original BRENs, and a sniper SMLE with a post reticle in the mid 1990s...the guys in the film would've been outgunned by the guys in saving private Ryan.


 :facepalm:  I must've misread the title credits in my late night watch...1961 makes a lot more sense
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Mannlicher

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Re: The Siege of Jadotville
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2016, 08:32:00 AM »
the show was actually not bad, and it concentrated on the event itself.  What it skirted, was the reasons for what happened, and the fact that there were never any 'good guys' in the Congo.

The Irish Army (now there is a laughable term) actually was equipped with cast off American and British arms from WWII.   Probably still are.

RevDisk

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Re: The Siege of Jadotville
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2016, 08:49:40 AM »

From what I recall, the Irish were dumb enough to sign up for a UN mission in the Congo to support Lumumba because the Katanga providence declared independence. Lumumba was friendly with the Soviets, as an aside. Basically Katanga had a large number of mines run by the Belgians. Their military was largely mercenaries, but with a fairly strong indigenous component. They launched a mission to capture said Irish troops for leverage. The Irish admittedly fought well for 5 days considering they had a bad position, virtually no support, limited supplies, etc. They surrendered when they ran out of ammo. The truly surprising part is that the Irish forces treated mercenary captives well, and the mercenaries treated Irish captives well.

Katangese Gendarmes folded not long afterwards. Honestly the entire campaign did no one much glory. The Irish troops were treated as cowards afterwards, despite the fact that they fought well. By "fought well" they killed 300 enemy forces while suffering 5 wounded. They had only small arms, a couple Vickers and a couple mortars. The other UN forces didn't/couldn't reinforce them, though admittedly they did try. The Katanga forces managed to hold off the reinforcements. It took 40 years for the Irish government to clear their solders' names, after unofficially branding them cowards for that interval.

The UN occupation worked. Even though it was expensive, poorly managed, etc. Worked in that it crushed the rebellion. Congo remained unstable until the CIA put Joseph Mobutu in power four years after the Katanga rebellion. Joseph Mobutu ruled Congo for 30 years and ran it into the ground via corruption, incompetence, poor human rights record and nepotism.

Shorter version: Don't volunteer for UN missions unless you like epic clusters. Even if your troops accomplish an amazing seige, it'll end badly.
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Jocassee

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Re: The Siege of Jadotville
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2016, 08:56:09 AM »
Great flick, but given the setting I assumed the guns were all the producers could come up with in Ireland.

Surely they weren't using m1917 Brownings, apparently WWII original BRENs, and a sniper SMLE with a post reticle in the mid 1990s...the guys in the film would've been outgunned by the guys in saving private Ryan.


 :facepalm:  I must've misread the title credits in my late night watch...1961 makes a lot more sense

Takes place in the 60's. And it was filmed in South Africa.
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Jocassee

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Re: The Siege of Jadotville
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2016, 08:57:36 AM »
Oops. Sorry, DS, i didn't see your edit.  :angel:
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Scout26

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Re: The Siege of Jadotville
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2016, 11:01:26 AM »
Rev gives a good description of the Congo War.  No good guys on either side.  IIRC, the Irish signed up simply to help stop the bloodshed.

Anyway, several good war movies coming out this time of year.   Hacksaw Ridge hits theaters Nov 4, and I can't wait to take Robert to see that.  I'll have to figure out how to (legally) get a copy of Siege of Jadotville, since I don't have Netflix.  And I think there was another one, that I'm misremembering.
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

Ben

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Re: The Siege of Jadotville
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2016, 11:04:51 AM »
Rev gives a good description of the Congo War.  No good guys on either side.  IIRC, the Irish signed up simply to help stop the bloodshed.

Anyway, several good war movies coming out this time of year.   Hacksaw Ridge hits theaters Nov 4, and I can't wait to take Robert to see that.  I'll have to figure out how to (legally) get a copy of Siege of Jadotville, since I don't have Netflix.  And I think there was another one, that I'm misremembering.


You can always do the free trial on Netflix:

https://www.netflix.com/getstarted
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just Warren

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Re: The Siege of Jadotville
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2016, 12:48:20 PM »
Freaking politicians. Send troops into an untenable situation, refuse to support them and then after they've fought to the last bullet and the last bit of food and are forced to surrender, call them cowards.

And keep maligning them for 43 years.

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K Frame

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Re: The Siege of Jadotville
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2016, 12:52:10 PM »
Guy closest to the camera in the top photo appears to be firing a MAT 49 submachine gun.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: The Siege of Jadotville
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2016, 05:34:36 PM »
Freaking politicians. Send troops into an untenable situation, refuse to support them and then after they've fought to the last bullet and the last bit of food and are forced to surrender, call them cowards.

And keep maligning them for 43 years.

The problem (well, ONE of the problems) with lending your troops to the UN for peacekeeping missions is that your people are out of your control, working under someone else's control, and totally divorced from your own tactical and logistical support system. In other words, your troops are at the mercy of whatever UN imbecile is in overall charge of that particular peacekeeping mission.

This was a perfect example. This was a company of Irish soldiers, in the African Congo. There was no Irish supply line to provide logistical support. There was no Irish battalion over the next hill to provide relief, or Irish Air Force (if there is such a thing) to provide close air support. You had 158 men, on their own, fighting off somewhere between 3,000 and 5,000 attackers. There was a combined unit (Irish and Swedish) who tried to break through, but even that "force" only numbered 500 men and was badly outnumbered -- as well as being bottled up because there was only one bridge into the area, and the enemy controlled it.

If there's a lesson in this story, it's that you don't send your troops into harm's way without making provision to bail them out if the balloon goes up.
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RevDisk

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Re: The Siege of Jadotville
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2016, 09:01:06 PM »

Watched the film. Assuming it is remotely accurate, which it looks so compared to what I've read, they did extremely well for under trained, under equipped and unsupported. They made a significant number of mistakes but you could see them adapting quicker as they gained experience. Honestly it is amazing that they survived, let alone survived with only wounded. Granted, I did think most of the time that a modern US Army unit, even Reserve or Guard, probably would have wiped the floor with the enemy. Not so sure how well a 1960's unit would have done.

The mercenary commander was a good guy. Rene Faulques, Foreign Legion veteran of WW2, Suez, Algeria, Indochina/Vietnam, Biafra. Even the Vietminh commended him for his courage. He passed away in 2011. I'm quite sure he was glad to see the Irish recognized for their bravery.

I'm unsurprised that none of the bureaucrats faced any repercussions for the atrocities, epic clusters or managing to get their Secretary General shot out of the sky. They 'won' with overwhelming troops, supplies and international embargoes against a single landlocked providence with mostly mercenary forces.
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Angel Eyes

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Re: The Siege of Jadotville
« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2016, 02:52:43 PM »
"They would never dare attack a United Nations company."


*snicker*
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