Balancing the Budget

[Felonious Monk/Fignozzle]

Balog's thread got me thinking.
About 10 years ago, I lost a friend by asking this question.
Now, mind you: he WAS a Sys Analyst for a NASA subcontractor, but I really don't see why he would take a TRULY innocent question so personally as to end a 15 year friendship.

What I asked was:
"Tell me what we really have to gain by continuing to fund space exploration with government money?"

...and while we're at it...
And why is it a high enough priority that we can afford to fund it, while our borders are hemmorrhaging illegal invaders?
Why is it a high enough priority that we can afford to fund it while there is still even ONE hungry child in America that didn't get that way by stupid choices?
Why is it a high enough priority that we can afford to fund it while we haven't yet cured cancer, or...or a MILLION other things more important to the majority of Americans?

Thoughts?

[BozemanMT]

well
I dunno the answers to your questions
But I know why your friend got upset
Because he sold his soul and integrity to the government (NASA engineer) and he couldn't be around someone who could see the truth.

[drewtam]

Space exploration and travel holds the promise of continued improvement in satellite launching which has economic, military, and scientific study.

But I think you present a false dilemma here: border problems and cancer research don't suffer from competition with the space program. But rather the SS, Medicare, and Medicaid, Defense and Interest (on debt) soak up 4/5 of the budget. Everything else combined only pulls together 1/5.
http://www.federalbudget.com/
I think child welfare is rolled into medicare, medicaid or is somehow in the health and human services budget.

And it would take a pretty good source to convince me that we have a great number of children who can't get food and are willing to work with the system (child services). That is something completely different than teenage children who don't want the 'help' or have neglectful/irresponsible parents.

Drew

[Sindawe]

Basic research and exploration often leads to a multitude of benifits that are not immediately apparent, such as the small, powerful and cheap computers that are now ubiquitous in our culture.  Spurred on my NASA's race to the moon IIRC.  Some things we can only do collectively, and right now the means of that collective effort is government.

Until recently, private space exploration was beyond the reach of most corporation. Even now, almost 40 years since our species first set foot on the moon, we are just beginning to dabbling at the edges of space for manned expeditions.  And this planet is the ONLY one we got, all our eggs are in one basket at the moment.  A good sized rock hitting the planet could smash our civilzation to bits at least, and maybe even make our kind as extinct as the dinosaurs.  Continued space exploration can help us identify those chunks of rocks while we still have time to do something about it, be it divert the chunk into a non-impact orbit or prepare society to weather the calamity and come back with our tech and culture mostly intact.

And sadly no matter how much money we pour into the poor, they will ALWAYS be with us until we devise a means of producing limitless power at next to zero cost.  Finding that grail can only be achieved by continue basic research that may not pay off for generations.

[Art Eatman]

The space effort is one of maybe three or four government programs which actually have generated wealth beyond expectations.  Consider highways, the TVA, and othr federal water-supply projects.  Otherwise, it's a consumption of tax money without any real addition to goods and services.

The space effort?  A return of at least 10:1 over the budget.  Probably more, now, when you consider the spinoffs from the spinoffs.  Think about the impetus to miniaturizing computers and the R&D involved, just for one--and then consider what we can now do via computers. 

Think about communications:  In 1940, just in New York City, had the old human-operated plug-in switchboards still been in use, it would have taken the entire female work force of the city.  Now, via computers, the whole world is interlinked with few hands-on people involved.

Then, the world of medicine and the many advancement in tools engendered as spinoff.  Heck, just Nomex has save many, many lives.  Much of what we now know about machining exotic metallic alloys comes from space effort needs.

In business, the whole concept of "critical path" coming together of various components in time for a completed minimal-cost, minimal-delay end product came from the space effort.  IOW, an intellectual concept.

And last and most important:  It's the last frontier, and it's there.

Art

[MechAg94]

And why is it a high enough priority that we can afford to fund it, while our borders are hemmorrhaging illegal invaders?

     Border security is not a question of money, but a question of having the balls to do something about it. 

Why is it a high enough priority that we can afford to fund it while there is still even ONE hungry child in America that didn't get that way by stupid choices?

     If there are hungry children in America, it is not for lack of funding of govt services.  More money will not solve any of those problems. 

Why is it a high enough priority that we can afford to fund it while we haven't yet cured cancer, or...or a MILLION other things more important to the majority of Americans?

     We already give a whole lot of money for research on cancer and a MILLION other things.  As with the others, more money won't make so much of a difference. 

Aside from that, NASA's budget ain't that large compared to a lot of the other crap the govt spends money on.  If you really want to save money, start by looking at Social Security, Medicare, Prescription Drugs, Funding for the Arts, and a MILLION other things the govt gives money away for that should be revamped and/or cut.  There is at least a chance for some economic payback on NASA's research.  At the same time though, the govt should encourage private enterprise in space as much as possible. 

[MechAg94]

I don't want to be sharp with my words, but I do get sick of hearing people talk about hunger and disease in America as if a few more dollars are going to make all the difference in the world and if we just cut a few of those actual beneficial programs or just raise taxes just a little bit, we will solve all those problems immediately and create a brave new world.  Dreaming is great when you are looking for ideas, but when it actually comes to doing something and accomplishing something, you have to step back into the real world and approach things more practically. 


Example:  A number of times I have seen people buying stuff at grocery stores with food stamps.  I have never seen any of them just buying food or look like they are really trying to stretch a buck to eat. 

[Firethorn]

Example:  A number of times I have seen people buying stuff at grocery stores with food stamps.  I have never seen any of them just buying food or look like they are really trying to stretch a buck to eat.

One of the biggest problems the poorest segment of our society faces is obesity.  They don't eat right, but they're able to get plenty of food.

You should hear the screams whenever somebody proposes removing soda and potato chips from the list of food stamp eligable items.

[K Frame]

I'd have to say a couple of things...

The space program really helped push the computer age into high gear.

It pushed R&D into lightweight composite materials, including those that can be used for medical procedures.

Medical imaging has also gotten a boost from advances caused by the space program, part of it computer related, part of it stuff developed to inspect parts without ripping them apart.

It made the Soviets look bad.