The US rural vs. city divide

[MillCreek]

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2017/jun/19/americas-great-fallout-rural-areas-resent-cities-republican-democrat

Note how many people quoted believe that the lot of the rural citizen will not change regardless of whom is in power.  I could not agree more.

[Perd Hapley]

Observers wonder when “these people” will wake up and realise that Trump does not have their interests at heart.

 

[MechAg94]

Most rural businesses and farms are small businesses.  The best thing to do for them is take the tax and regulatory burden off them.  People like things like the disability act, but they are put costs and burdens on businesses that small business struggles with.

[makattak]

Most rural businesses and farms are small businesses.  The best thing to do for them is take the tax and regulatory burden off them.  People like things like the disability act, but they are put costs and burdens on businesses that small business struggles with.

As but a small example of the problem.

Notice all the small, doctor owned practices are getting bought up by hospitals and other health companies? Government regulation is driving that.

(Oh hey, and it's not really cost effective now for a small town to try to support a doctor practice. So I guess everyone has to drive to the city for all doctoring, too.)

Government is strangling the economy everywhere.

And when told regulations will kill small business, what does the typical Democrat say? "I can’t be responsible for every undercapitalized small business in America."

Such empathy.

[lee n. field]

Observers wonder when “these people” will wake up and realise that Trump does not have their interests at heart.

Well, yeah.  But he at least something different than same old same old.

[Hawkmoon]

I have been visiting coffee klatches and residents’ groups throughout the state of Wisconsin since 2007. I seek them out, in various types of places, to understand how they are making sense of politics. From the very beginning, the conversations in small communities like this one surprised me. I have heard time and time again about the struggle to make ends meet, and the lack of response from anyone with the power to make life better. I have heard men like Joe say those idiots who tell us to drive less have no clue what our lives are like.

So she's been doing this for ten years, and for ten years she's been hearing the sanme thing, ... and it continues to surprise her? I don't think this lady is very bright.

And she doesn't even know that "Protestant" should be capitalized. :sniff:

[RevDisk]

Government/environment regulation, population density, lean manufacturing, outsourcing, offshoring, automation, shipping, fuel/transportation costs, infrastructure, proximity to skilled labor pools, etc.

There's no one thing killing the rust belt jobs. There is no simple solution. Regulation is one contributing factor, to be sure. I'm always a big believer that any non-safety related regulation should be on a reasonable sliding scale. That said, even if all regulatory costs magically became zero, it wouldn't necessarily completely change the rust belt. Hell, we're still near the top of manufacturing in the entire world. Automation is just reducing the number of workers needed. What's left is skilled labor. That near universally need to be acquired by the worker in question.

Sadly, same as Millcreek, I'm not seeing anything that anyone could realistically do that will change ALL of the equations.

I'm also very aware that city workers largely flat out openly hate and despise people not in urban areas.

[Ben]

I'm also very aware that city workers largely flat out openly hate and despise people not in urban areas.

Certainly it's a two way street, though also a generalization. Your average Portland or San Francisco, or NYC city slicker probably generally disparages (or even hates) the rural resident. Your average Phoenix dweller probably doesn't give a hoot one way or the other. On the other hand, I found it interesting that the author seemed to think "rustbelt" was the poster child for "rural".

"Rural" is much, much more heterogeneous than is "urban".  While a rustbelt dweller might have hate for urban areas and blame them for the problems of the rustbelt, rural residents in say, Idaho, might be there more by choice than via "being abandoned" and want nothing more than to be left alone.

[Perd Hapley]

All my life, I've heard people complain that various places (St. Louis, Detroit, Smalltownsville, etc) are dying, and Something must be done. I guess it's because I grew up miles away from any sidewalks, but it's always been odd to me that people take for granted the towns' right to a continued existence.* I mean, if everyone's moving out; if businesses are moving out, then maybe your town doesn't serve the purpose it once did. Maybe the location doesn't have the importance to the wider world that it had in 1950, or 1850, or whatever the case may be. Obviously, it's not always easy to move your life from one part of the world to the other, but do you continue to insist that Anywhere, USA must continue to exist at that spot on the map, even when everyone around you is leaving?



*When I say town, I am including large cities.

[MillCreek]

^^^I was thinking about this just this last weekend: my wife and I were hiking in the Cascades to an abandoned mining town.  Up here, we have lots of abandoned towns that petered out when the timber, ore and farming did and there was no longer an economic rationale for the town to exist.  Most of this occurred way back before government regulation and was the free market at work.

[makattak]

^^^I was thinking about this just this last weekend: my wife and I were hiking in the Cascades to an abandoned mining town.  Up here, we have lots of abandoned towns that petered out when the timber, ore and farming did and there was no longer an economic rationale for the town to exist.  Most of this occurred way back before government regulation and was the free market at work.

It's more than simply the work moving.

I saw someone do the math that for many of these towns, if you sell your (as an example, completely paid for) house in the rural community to move to a city, you likely have enough to pay for rent in a big city for 2 years.

Additionally, leaving all social support is costly (who is going to watch the kids) and the rise of two income families means that moving to find work for one also costs you the other's steady job.

It's not simply a matter of "this is where we've always lived and where we'll stay!" Economics drives this too.

[AJ Dual]

I agree that a lot of this is just the economic ebb-and-flow as things modernize and models change.

Small town car repair shop can't make it anymore, because newer cars don't break down as often as technology improved. And also, they're full of fiddly plastic bits and more and more specialized parts and computer tech.

That's fine. However, the number of "plastic fiddly bits" mandated by the EPA or the fed.gov is not an insignificant portion of that.

A small mom-n-pop dry cleaners spills a cup of fluid in the parking lot, or a small construction company lets some muddy runoff into a gully when they're digging a foundation... if it's reported, the EPA fines and paperwork etc. will mean the end of their business.

Meanwhile in Milwaukee, because it's "unfair" to make the city's "poor" (i.e. "Democrats) pay for the actual expense and tedium of a proper rain and poop separated sewer system, the MMSD dumps millions of gallons of raw untreated sewage into Lake Michigan every time it rains.

People are smart, and they see this kind of crap as a whole, not just as discrete issues, and they understand the double-standards at work here.

[grampster]

We went into the downtown area of Grand Rapids which has surged in attracting bars/restaurants/condos/small boutiques/and a couple of large venues for pro hockey/music/ etc etc etc.  We had lunch in one of the alleged best places down there.  I thought I walked into a circus freak show looking around at the people in that place.  

[makattak]

People are smart, and they see this kind of crap as a whole, not just as discrete issues, and they understand the double-standards at work here.

There is the issue of subsidizing the cheaper replacement workforce for the unskilled Americans as well.

When illegals are allowed to flout housing regulations (#of families per house, requirements for electricity, plumbing, etc...), driving regulations (insurance, inspections, etc...), taxes, and the like that citizens cannot, the unskilled worker may not be a genius, but he will notice.

[Scout26]

Two data points.

I was down in Peoria two weekends ago.  One of my soldiers lives there, and of course friends and neighbors stopped by while we were there.  One guy worked at Caterpiller.  He said that orders that were at barely a trickle for the past few years have been steadily picking up.  So he was very optimistic.  Other folks there from around the area (even what would be rural areas, smalltowns) were saying the there was more work for them (whatever that work was.)

For the most part, they were thrilled with what Trump was doing. About 3/4 followed him on Twitter, because the MSM is "Fake News".  They don't care what NYTCBSNBCABCMSNBSWaPo has to say.  They aren't listening.  They are incensed at the Democrats for "acting like big babies" after they lost.  And well over half had voted for Obama at least once.

Sorry, I wasn't doing scientific polling, just listening to conversation and watching head nods in agreement.

And then today driving to pick up wall tile for the kitchen, listening to Rush.  And he's taking about a coal mine opening in PA or WVA, I forget which, and some NY reporterette going out the to talk to the people there.  (A new mine, generally, means new equipment, like the kinds that Caterpillar makes.  Data Point #2)  Anywho, she was completely surprised how much they love Trump.  Because he's doing the things he said he would and keeping his campaign promises.

People vote with their wallets.  And as long has Trump keeps delivering on his promises, (And the left acts likes complete 'tards) he's going to win in 2020.

[Ben]

And as long has Trump keeps delivering on his promises, (And the left acts likes complete 'tards) he's going to win in 2020.

And who knows, he might actually be able to circumvent the dems and have a full cabinet by then.

[Monkeyleg]

And who knows, he might actually be able to circumvent the dems and have a full cabinet by then.

Whoa! Let's not get ahead of ourselves.

[MechAg94]

I heard a snippet of a speech by Trump a couple weeks ago.  He was talking about regulations and mentioned some larger company trying to get a project done and the environmental impact studies they had to do.  I think he said the cost of in the 10's of millions of dollars just for the studies and the report was several boxes of paper printed out.  He made the point that none of that is actually helping the environment.  That could be done with just a few pages.  It is just a way for environmental bureaucrats to funnel money to friends who do the reports. 

I agree with the above comments.  I am reminded of the quote from Outlaw Josey Wales.  "Don't piss down my back and tell me its raining."   
https://youtu.be/_4e8iAofnrw
IMO, that is exactly what these liberals in politics and news are doing and think no one notices.