Personal Protection: Using a Car as Cover

[freakazoid]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qXwdBOZzpY
Never seen this guy's videos before until now. His name is Paul Harrell. Pretty interesting and seems to be really informative. Also, for some reason his way of talking cracks me up a little.

[cordex]

Yeah, I enjoy his stuff.
He sort of reminds me of a late 70’s or early 80’s cop.

[Fly320s]

I have taken two classes on shooting into, out of, through, over, under, and around cars.  The only guarantee about bullets and cars is that there is no guarantee.  I have seen .22s zip right through while 12 gauge slugs got stopped.  It all depends on what the bullet encounters as it goes through the car.  Since we can’t really control what happens to the bullet after it first hits the car, we can’t control what it will hit.

So, the rule for shooting into or out of cars, is P for Plenty.  Use plenty of ammo and hope for the best.

[HankB]

Some years back while shooting an IDPA match, a few junker cars were used as props.

For the most part, errant bullets zipped right through.

Intellectually I knew cars weren't bullet proof, but seeing them perforated so often and so easily drove home the fact that while cars offer some concealment, they make for poor cover.

[grampster]

During the '67 riot in my town, our 4 cruiser convoy was shot at by a sniper on the 3rd floor of a house.  I was driving the lead car and when I jumped out of the car I crouched down next to the LF wheel.  Guy took out the LF headlight about that time.  16 of us returned fire.  He threw the rifle out of the window and surrendered.

[MechAg94]

During the '67 riot in my town, our 4 cruiser convoy was shot at by a sniper on the 3rd floor of a house.  I was driving the lead car and when I jumped out of the car I crouched down next to the LF wheel.  Guy took out the LF headlight about that time.  16 of us returned fire.  He threw the rifle out of the window and surrendered.

I assume the sniper found that the walls of his house were a poor bullet stop also.


I think you should probably look at it this way:  The "car" in general is not cover.  Parts of it like the wheel or engine block might be. 

[RoadKingLarry]

Just got to remember the difference between cover and concealment.
Engine block, probably stop most things. The rest of the car can be counted on to stop daylight for a while anyway.
Always get a chuckle out of seeing bullets bounce off cars on TV.

[Perd Hapley]

Just got to remember the difference between cover and concealment.
Engine block, probably stop most things. The rest of the car can be counted on to stop daylight for a while anyway.
Always get a chuckle out of seeing bullets bounce off cars on TV.

The current fashion seems to be dozens of bullets going through the car, but failing to hit any of the occupants. At least Jack Reacher tried to be a little more realistic, by loading his car with reams of paper. Of course, he then drove it straight into (or backwards into) enemy fire, so...

[TommyGunn]

Just got to remember the difference between cover and concealment.
Engine block, probably stop most things. The rest of the car can be counted on to stop daylight for a while anyway.
Always get a chuckle out of seeing bullets bounce off cars on TV.

The 1980s seemed to feature bullet resistant cars... bullet hits signified by fourth of july fireworks.

Just saw a rebooted SWAT episode last week where actual holes appeared for bullet strikes.  Character put a hole in front quarter panel behind wheel well ...no body hits but I wouldn't expect one from the trajectory.
Maybe .... maybe hollyweird is wizing up .... ..... ...

[Unisaw]

The old cop shows had cars exploding from one hit with a lead RN slug fired out of a .38 snubby! 

[zxcvbob]

The old cop shows had cars exploding from one hit with a lead RN slug fired out of a .38 snubby! 

Ford Pinto?

[Perd Hapley]

I think we need more perspective on this issue. Does anyone know where to find that excellent video, where the gentleman showed how to crawl through a car, and lay down on the ground, to get a good shot?

[MechAg94]

Just got to remember the difference between cover and concealment.
Engine block, probably stop most things. The rest of the car can be counted on to stop daylight for a while anyway.
Always get a chuckle out of seeing bullets bounce off cars on TV.

The issue to remember with the engine block is you don't know for use how big the actual engine is.  In some vehicles, the engine block isn't that big compared to the car itself.  At least with the wheel, you can see how big it is.

[Hawkmoon]

I think you should probably look at it this way:  The "car" in general is not cover.  Parts of it like the wheel or engine block might be. 

Correct. Automobiles are concealment, not cover. The only part of an automobile that can generally be counted on to stop a bullet from a rifle (and most handguns) is the engine block.

[230RN]

The old cop shows had cars exploding from one hit with a lead RN slug fired out of a .38 snubby! 

"Highway Patrol" with Broderick Crawford?

I always laughed when he'd take a long range shot with his snubby by resting it on his left forearm and the BG would fall down.  Meantime, his uniformed partner was carrying a 6" Model 10.  I often wondered what the side blast did to his jacket sleeve, even with theatrical ammo.

Terry

[RoadKingLarry]

Yup, handgun bullets that won't punch through a car door or window but hit a guy in the leg and it knocks him back 20'.

[Hawkmoon]

The old cop shows had cars exploding from one hit with a lead RN slug fired out of a .38 snubby! 

That was back when people believed the myth of exploding bullets.

[cordex]

Another thing to consider while crouching behind the engine of your vehicle returning fire is that bullets impacting at a shallow angle are very likely to ricochet.  If you're peeking over the top of the hood you're likely to take that ricochet to the face, which might be unpleasant.  

I took a course focusing on shooting from, around and through vehicles (though we didn't do anything handling how to shoot at targets inside vehicles), and one thing the instructors emphasized pretty heavily was that shooting around vehicles was better than shooting over vehicles as you will expose less of your brain that way.  They also suggested that when taking fire it will seem like the best idea in the world to hug the car as close as possible, but backing off a few yards is almost always preferred as hopefully those ricochets will have room to gain height and go over your head instead of into it.

Another item from that class was that if you've never drawn your pistol from behind the wheel it can be instructive to try.  Watch that you don't cover your legs and don't get hung up in the controls.  We were using an old truck with lots of room for the live fire drill and even then it was harder than it looks.  One time I was sitting in a parked cop car a little past midnight when someone came up on us quickly from behind.  At the time I was impressed by how quickly the cop got his gun out but after having tried to do it under pressure myself (granted, with the added difficulty of drawing from concealment instead of OWB) I was even more impressed.

[TommyGunn]

"Highway Patrol" with Broderick Crawford?

I always laughed when he'd take a long range shot with his snubby by resting it on his left forearm and the BG would fall down.  Meantime, his uniformed partner was carrying a 6" Model 10.  I often wondered what the side blast did to his jacket sleeve, even with theatrical ammo.    Terry   

I used to love HIGHWAY PATROL as a kid.   I have the DVD set today.   Interesting seeing a young Leonard Nimoy,  and Clint Eastwood appearing in a few episodes.  Other than that and the old cars,  the other notable aspect was how cheaply it was made.

[230RN]

I assume the sniper found that the walls of his house were a poor bullet stop also.

...
.  

My big brother told me that if you hears shots outside, don't look out the window.  Go to the back of the house.

[Jamisjockey]

Pretty sure that question was answered after the North Hollywood bank robbery shootout.
Many officers who took cover behind cars were wounded, because they used the wrong parts of the car.

[seeker_two]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qXwdBOZzpY
Never seen this guy's videos before until now. His name is Paul Harrell. Pretty interesting and seems to be really informative. Also, for some reason his way of talking cracks me up a little.

Paul Harrell is one of the few YT gun "experts" that is worth watching. I look forward to his weekly posts.

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