Natural Gas Water Chiller

[Nick1911]

This is a neat bit of kit I came across.  It's a natural gas fired water chiller, 3 tons, for use in residential cooling.  It contained 18 lbs of R717, which is ammonia.  Input heat is 110,000 BTU.  Model 36-451-P

These systems are unique in that they are driven not with electric power, but with heat energy.

I've never actually seen one of these in person for residential comfort cooling.  I'm not sure if it's a single pressure unit with an equalizing gas, or operated in a cycles.  There are two solenoid valves, which suggests perhaps it was cyclical operation, not continous operation.

Anyway, thought I'd share.

[Ron]

That’s cool :)

Never have to wonder if you have a leak with an amonia system.

I’ve read some Amish use nat gas residential refrigerators.

[JonnyB]

We owned a house in the twin cities that had a gas-fired central air conditioner. The house was built in 1959, and I suspect the unit was installed then.

We replaced it in ‘89 or so, when it wore out. It could have been repaired but not in an inexpensive manner.

The Minneapolis airport has a steam-powered chiller, with, if I remember correctly, a max output of 800 tons. The compressor is driven by a steam turbine. Since at least one boiler is always operating - reheat and humidification - it’s an efficient system.

Jon

[MillCreek]

I know of several people who live more or less off the grid in the Cascades, and several of them have propane refrigerators.

[RoadKingLarry]

The boats I was on used steam to run the air conditioning plants. Been a few years but I think the main was a lithium bromide system.

[charby]

My old camper had an ammonia refrigerator in it.

[K Frame]

"I’ve read some Amish use nat gas residential refrigerators."

Even kerosene refrigerators.

You only need something that will maintain a flame. You could even use candles if you were so inclined.

I've been hearing some indications that ammonia is making something of a comeback as a refrigerant.

[K Frame]

Here's a page on how absorption chillers work.

https://www.araner.com/blog/how-do-absorption-chillers-work/

Generally there are few, if any, moving parts.

[Ron]

"I’ve read some Amish use nat gas residential refrigerators."

Even kerosene refrigerators.

You only need something that will maintain a flame. You could even use candles if you were so inclined.

I've been hearing some indications that ammonia is making something of a comeback as a refrigerant.

CO2 as a refrigerant is back in the commercial world.

Years ago I had an ancient refrigerator and I’m pretty sure it was a CO2 unit. Never found a plate on it to confirm for sure.

I don’t think amonia ever really went away but has been nearly completely confined to industrial use.

[charby]

CO2 as a refrigerant is back in the commercial world.

Years ago I had an ancient refrigerator and I’m pretty sure it was a CO2 unit. Never found a plate on it to confirm for sure.

I don’t think amonia ever really went away but has been nearly completely confined to industrial use.

Your camper has an ammonia fridge.

[Ron]

Your camper has an ammonia fridge.

Unfortunately I don’t have a camper, still tent camping.

I didn’t realize the camper fridges used amonia. I guess I falsely assumed that amonia systems in such a small space would have been regulated out of existence.

Years ago I was a stationary engineer at a meat processing plant that converted from R-22 and R-502 to an ammonia system. We didn’t do amonia so I never saw the plant after the system change over. I’m pretty sure the screw compressors were able to be used but I think their banks of reciprocating compressors all had to go.

[charby]

Unfortunately I don’t have a camper, still tent camping.

I didn’t realize the camper fridges used amonia. I guess I falsely assumed that amonia systems in such a small space would have been regulated out of existence.

Years ago I was a stationary engineer at a meat processing plant that converted from R-22 and R-502 to an ammonia system. We didn’t do amonia so I never saw the plant after the system change over. I’m pretty sure the screw compressors were able to be used but I think their banks of reciprocating compressors all had to go.

I had it in my head, you were scout

[bedlamite]

We had an LP fridge from the 50's at the cabin in northern MN. It finally rusted out a few years ago.

[Firethorn]

I just had a thought.  Propane can be used as a refrigerant as well(R290). 

I'm just picturing you being able to charge the refrigerant loop with the same stuff you use to power the thing. 

[K Frame]

I'm visiting Castle Key this week, and we stopped in at the local appliance dealer.

More museum than appliances, really. Dozens of old stoves, heaters, and refrigerators/ice boxes, including a number of monitor tops.

REALLY neat stuff.

[230RN]

My old camper had an ammonia refrigerator in it.

Mine, too, but I recall you could run it off either the camper propane tank or line current if you were plugged in to the grid.

[charby]

Mine, too, but I recall you could run it off either the camper propane tank or line current if you were plugged in to the grid.

Yep

[BobR]

When I moved to Lawton, Oklahoma in 1997 the house I rented had a natural gas central air unit. Not very efficient IMO, my gas bill took off like a rocket in the summer. Being Oklahoma it was a left over from the day when natural gas was king, everything was gas. Growing up there in the late we had a yard light that ran 24/7 on natural gas, the BBQ was plumbed for natural gas and anything else that could be gas was, except we did have an electric central air once that was put in. I was lucky, the natural gas central air died shortly after we moved in and the owner put in a modern, efficient electric unit.


bob

[Firethorn]

the owner put in a modern, efficient electric unit.

That may be more because more development has gone into optimizing electric units.