Red Flag Law Support

[MechAg94]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_EeFzR_yAA

Dan Crenshaw was on Louder with Crowder talking about Red Flag laws.  I don't know what he is trying to accomplish with this, but he seems to be saying different things.  He acts like everyone should assume a federal Red Flag law will be filled with controls and limits rather than assuming it will be a pile of crap.  He seems to claim toward the tail end that he wants strict limits and due process.  Even if he lead with that information, I am not sure it would have sounded better. 

I know it doesn't mean a whole lot when it comes to voting, but the youtube comments are not in his favor. 

Do any of you see this differently?  IMO, even with lots of limits and controls, red flag laws are ripe for abuse.  Just gives the govt another tool to screw with people while claiming it is okay because they can fight it in court after the fact (at very great expense). 

[MillCreek]

The red flag laws, universal background checks, age limits on assault rifles and required training before purchasing assault rifles are all in place here in Washington state.

[Hawkmoon]

He acts like everyone should assume a federal Red Flag law will be filled with controls and limits rather than assuming it will be a pile of crap.  He seems to claim toward the tail end that he wants strict limits and due process. 

Connecticut enacted a "red flag" type law in 2017 or 2018, IIRC. Their idea of "due process" is an ex parte (one-sided -- the person who will be the subject of the order is not notified of the hearing or represented) hearing. If the order is granted, the cops show up and take the guns, and then the subject of the order "may" seek a hearing at which he gets to try to show why he should get his guns back.

That's not how the Founders understood "due process" to operate. Welcome to the new reality.

[MikeB]

Ok. I've got a deal for them.

If anyone requesting the red flag law can be shown by preponderance of evidence, not reasonable doubt to have fabricated any evidence or lied about anything no matter how small that person automatically gets a 100year jail sentence with no chance of parole. If that person is a government official or medical professional they get the death penalty.

Then maybe I'll support suborning due process for this.

In every case I can think of, there was enough for the person to have been convicted of a crime that would have made them a prohibited person or they never even raised any behavior that would have activated any red flag law. This is a solution looking for a problem. We shouldn't make new laws, because people didn't follow the ones already on the books. That's equivalent to making murder double illegal.

Finally if these laws are going to happen it should be at the state, not federal level.

[MechAg94]

Ok. I've got a deal for them.

If anyone requesting the red flag law can be shown by preponderance of evidence, not reasonable doubt to have fabricated any evidence or lied about anything no matter how small that person automatically gets a 100year jail sentence with no chance of parole. If that person is a government official or medical professional they get the death penalty.

Then maybe I'll support suborning due process for this.

In every case I can think of, there was enough for the person to have been convicted of a crime that would have made them a prohibited person or they never even raised any behavior that would have activated any red flag law. This is a solution looking for a problem. We shouldn't make new laws, because people didn't follow the ones already on the books. That's equivalent to making murder double illegal.

Finally if these laws are going to happen it should be at the state, not federal level.

I would add to your hypothetical that the judge and prosecutor are financially liable for the legal costs of the person getting their guns back. 

But I would rather it never happen to begin with.

[Ron]

Trump loses a big portion of us if he signs a red flag law.

It won't matter how many controls are built into the law for leftists to ignore.

The gun issue is the red line for many.

Trump has already tried to open the Overton window on the gun issue with bump stocks and had limited success.

Those two issues are worlds apart though.

No word magic will make us swallow the turd of national red flag laws.

[Boomhauer]

Red flag laws are emotional bullshit that appeal to emotional idiots who don’t have a *expletive deleted*ing clue about laws, rights, due process, or guns. Everything that they *could* accomplish can basically already be done. The big issue with many of these attacks is the fucksticks make threats ahead of time and nobody bothers to follow through of checking that out. Same *expletive deleted*it will occur with red flag laws and then the hand wringing stupid twits will want something else worse done to satisfy their retarded emotional desires to “we need to do something”

Just like if assault weapons were to be banned and confiscated then the next step would be shotguns and hunting rifles (aka street sweepers and high powered sniper rifles) 

[MechAg94]

I understand the Senate is in recess.  Do any of you know when the Senate is scheduled to come back in session?  Looks like we have a little time.

The GOA has links on their main page to email a message to President Trump and another to GOP Senators.  I suggest doing at least something like that which is easy.
https://gunowners.org/

The Firearms Policy Coalition has take action links on their site as well. 
https://www.firearmspolicy.org/act

I need to find the phone numbers to call my Senators tomorrow which is not something I have ever done.

[gunsmith]

it is soon becoming time to ignore all gun laws.
the law does not apply to what Bush 43 called "the governing class".
the law only serves to protect criminals/cronies.

[Hawkmoon]

I need to find the phone numbers to call my Senators tomorrow which is not something I have ever done.

https://www.usa.gov/elected-officials

[bedlamite]

[Ron]

As always with Trump, watch what he does and take his words with a grain of salt.

He is backing away from Red Flag and background check enhancement.

As an aside. Why doesn't anyone suggest making nics available to the public for private transactions? For many or most it's cost prohibited, eating up a substantial part of any cash deals if they involve a dealer.

[HankB]

If there are NO negative consequences for making false accusations in order to get a "Red Flag" judgement to kick in, the thing to do is start reporting EVERYONE on the other side - politicians, staffers, government bureaucrats, police officials, family members of police officials, public school teachers, anti-gun activists, celebrities, news people . . . just utterly SWAMP the system.

Especially those who support/enact Red Flag laws.

[MikeB]

If there are NO negative consequences for making false accusations in order to get a "Red Flag" judgement to kick in, the thing to do is start reporting EVERYONE on the other side - politicians, staffers, government bureaucrats, police officials, family members of police officials, public school teachers, anti-gun activists, celebrities, news people . . . just utterly SWAMP the system.

Especially those who support/enact Red Flag laws.

The problem with that is we clearly have a two tier Justice or perhaps it should be Injustice system right now. Anyone on the right that did this they would find a way to prosecute for it. Anyone on the left would be determined to be clear of any intent to commit any crime.

[RoadKingLarry]

This guy makes some interesting points.
Maybe a little on the tin foily side but an interesting watch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tncUEXUDpk

[Pb]

As an aside. Why doesn't anyone suggest making nics available to the public for private transactions? For many or most it's cost prohibited, eating up a substantial part of any cash deals if they involve a dealer.

I would have all driver's liscence's printed with prohibited/not prohibited status mark of some sort.

That would allow anyone to do a background check with no paper trail and the resulting defacto gun registration.

[MillCreek]

https://annals.org/aim/fullarticle/2748711/extreme-risk-protection-orders-intended-prevent-mass-shootings-case-series

This was just published in the Annals of Internal Medicine and looks at California's red flag law, which was the model for Washington's red flag law.

[Ben]

Old guy whose family was worried about his depression gets red-flagged. Stephen Gutowski does a fine synopsis - from calling out the "grenades" (I have a demiled one sitting on my desk right now) to  a good argument that NBC and the Philly cops likely made the guy more suicidal, since they shamed him on TV for owning guns and implied he was a criminal because of his legally owned firearms.

https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2019/08/30/disgustingly-ignorant-crap-stephen-gutowski-excoriates-nbc-news-for-completely-unethical-report-on-an-elderly-gun-owner/

[MechAg94]

The original article said they found an "inactive pipe bomb".  What is that?  That could just be a length of pipe for all I know.  I remember people talking about burying guns and ammo in PVC pipe.  I guess that would be a pipe bomb also. 


What a sad story.  Even sadder is that no where in the article is any quote from the old man or any attempt to ask him what he thinks. 

[Hawkmoon]

What a sad story.  Even sadder is that no where in the article is any quote from the old man or any attempt to ask him what he thinks. 

His opinion doesn't matter. He's a menace to society and a danger to himself. It must be true, here's the piece of paper that someone signed that says so.

[Ben]

His opinion doesn't matter. He's a menace to society and a danger to himself. It must be true, here's the piece of paper that someone signed that says so.

I also don't get how these red flag laws are supposed to be "for the person's own good" when they end up going to the press every time they execute one.

I have mentioned that due to some weird psychological problems that involve punishing myself, I still read the commie pinko paper from my old haunt of Santa Barbara. It seems every time one of these red flags is executed in Santa Barbara, it ends up in the news there. Of course followed up with a bunch of pablum about how well the law is working. That's great for the politicians that passed it and the anti-gunners I guess, but how is it helping "heal" the person who is now in the news?

[cordex]

I have mentioned that due to some weird psychological problems that involve punishing myself,

RED FLAG!

[Ben]

RED FLAG!

 

[kgbsquirrel]

The original article said they found an "inactive pipe bomb".  What is that?  That could just be a length of pipe for all I know.  I remember people talking about burying guns and ammo in PVC pipe.  I guess that would be a pipe bomb also. 


What a sad story.  Even sadder is that no where in the article is any quote from the old man or any attempt to ask him what he thinks. 

Funny, I was just censored elsewhere for discussions stemming from this case.  The old man ain't the only one being told to shut up.

[Ben]

Another one, and interestingly it ties into Dan Crenshaw in the OP.

Not sure why the label of Marine was important to the story, but a former Marine was red flagged in Oregon and spent 20 days in psych evaluation. From the story (which, as usual, might be missing a lot) he demonstrated in front of the Portland Mayor's house, stating that if Antifa killed people, he would kill Antifa to protect himself and others.

They nabbed him because he had been on a local FBI watchlist. He was on that watchlist because he wrote a letter to Dan Crenshaw, which apparently Crenshaw turned over to the Capitol police, which they in turn gave to the FBI.

I'm not sure that he said anything that antifa hasn't said, and in fact unlike antifa, he never acted out in physical violence.

An interesting aside: I found this story linked at a different news site in my feed, and in the comments section there, people who identified themselves as antifa actually said this was a bad thing, because next the gov would come after them for saying "the wrong thing".

https://www.oregonlive.com/news/2019/08/an-ex-marine-said-hed-slaughter-antifa-the-fbi-using-oregons-new-red-flag-law-took-his-guns-away.html?outputType=amp&__twitter_impression=true