Author Topic: File Sharing, Like Drugs and Dissent, Supports Terrorism  (Read 4582 times)

wacki

  • friend
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 361
File Sharing, Like Drugs and Dissent, Supports Terrorism
« on: March 15, 2007, 08:02:07 AM »
via gizmodo:

A 2006 report by the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office called "Filesharing Programs and Technological Features to Induce Users to Share" was just released to the general public yesterday, and it contains some interesting governmental observations as to the dangers of digital piracy.

It's 80 pages long and I am far too busy/lazy to read through the entire thing, but it looks like the general gist of it is that file sharing supports terrorism and corrupts our children. It claims that peer-to-peer networks increase the chances of government workers sharing sensitive data, which is kind of a stupid argument (let's ban phones, while we're at it, so they can't call people and tell them secrets).

An even more backwards argument is that by exposing kids to P2P software they are at a higher risk to pirate music, therefore be sued by copyright holders. The bad news about all this? It will make people protecting their copyrights seem antagonistic. Actually, the copyright holders that are being antagonistic are the ones making themselves seem that way, chief. If any of you out there with too much free time on your hands wants to comb through this beast for some fun quotes, pass em along and we'll post the best ones. Adam Frucci


http://www.shadowmonkey.net/articles/general/uspto-file-sharing-report.html
http://tinyurl.com/2bjpzd

Perd Hapley

  • Superstar of the Internet
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 61,511
  • My prepositions are on/in
Re: File Sharing, Like Drugs and Dissent, Supports Terrorism
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2007, 08:27:18 AM »
Who said that dissent supports terrorism? 
"Doggies are angel babies!" -- my wife

mtnbkr

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 15,388
Re: File Sharing, Like Drugs and Dissent, Supports Terrorism
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2007, 09:37:42 AM »
Quote
(let's ban phones, while we're at it, so they can't call people and tell them secrets).
Camera phones are verboten in most govt offices and cellphones are becoming more and more controlled as well.

Chris

Vodka7

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,067
Re: File Sharing, Like Drugs and Dissent, Supports Terrorism
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2007, 09:46:35 AM »
Who said that dissent supports terrorism? 

I'm beginning to question your allegiance

Gewehr98

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 11,010
  • Yee-haa!
    • Neural Misfires (Blog)
Re: File Sharing, Like Drugs and Dissent, Supports Terrorism
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2007, 09:57:04 AM »
Quote
Camera phones are verboten in most govt offices and cellphones are becoming more and more controlled as well.

Chris speaks true.

The DoD is researching what it would take to ban cellphone cameras at the gates of military installations, as I type this. (Good luck with that, I had fun buying a new cellphone that DIDN'T have a built-in camera) The unit I was assigned to wouldn't even let calculator watches inside, let alone thumbdrives and cellphones.  Pagers could only be worn by the express written permission of the unit commander, and usually they were owned by the unit for mission alert purposes, or "loaners" for expectant fathers.

File sharing just goes underground for a bit, but resurfaces later under a new name or new access method.  Sometimes, they make an effort to "go legit", like Napster and BitTorrent.  Peer-to-peer file sharing fades away at the first sign of RIAA lawyer attacks, but it never goes away.  Witness WinMX, officially "unsupported", but still very much alive, albeit underground. 
 

"Bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round...

http://neuralmisfires.blogspot.com

"Never squat with your spurs on!"

Manedwolf

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,516
Re: File Sharing, Like Drugs and Dissent, Supports Terrorism
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2007, 10:14:04 AM »
Quote
Camera phones are verboten in most govt offices and cellphones are becoming more and more controlled as well.

Chris speaks true.

The DoD is researching what it would take to ban cellphone cameras at the gates of military installations, as I type this. (Good luck with that, I had fun buying a new cellphone that DIDN'T have a built-in camera) The unit I was assigned to wouldn't even let calculator watches inside, let alone thumbdrives and cellphones.  Pagers could only be worn by the express written permission of the unit commander, and usually they were owned by the unit for mission alert purposes, or "loaners" for expectant fathers.

File sharing just goes underground for a bit, but resurfaces later under a new name or new access method.  Sometimes, they make an effort to "go legit", like Napster and BitTorrent.  Peer-to-peer file sharing fades away at the first sign of RIAA lawyer attacks, but it never goes away.  Witness WinMX, officially "unsupported", but still very much alive, albeit underground. 
 



Cameras now have lenses the size of a pinhole and can be hidden in nearly anything, and can be bought on eBay as such, in bulk, shipped from Hong Kong. Unless they literally scan for electronic devices, they're not going to get a determined malicious sort. Microelectronics are here, and soon they'll be nanoscale. Can't put that genie back in the bottle, so they'll have to actually innovate and allow technology to advance for security at entries. "Rules" aren't going to help much.

Go look on eBay right now, you'll find stuff like dummy cellphone casings from major manufacturers, with a 2.4gHz wireless camera and 9-volt battery hidden inside, can transmit hundreds of feet to someone recording off it. All for about $20 or so.

All you can do is be more thorough in what workers are allowed to see what sensitive information, and if that includes logistics headaches like giving each worker a bit of unique false info when there's a suspected leak, to see whose "card" makes it to the enemy and back to intelligence gathering, so be it.

Quote
It claims that peer-to-peer networks increase the chances of government workers sharing sensitive data

No, workers with poor ethics or workers who are part of groups associated with our enemies increase the chance of sharing sensitive data.

mtnbkr

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 15,388
Re: File Sharing, Like Drugs and Dissent, Supports Terrorism
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2007, 10:55:11 AM »
Maned, I take it you've never worked in a "secure" environment.  Cameras are only the tip of the iceberg.

The point isn't that cameras are small, therefore they shouldn't try, but that they are at least going after the "low hanging fruit".  First they banned actual cameras, now they're banning cameraphones.  I wouldn't care, but it's quite difficult to get a decent phone that doesn't have a camera. 

Quote
All you can do is be more thorough in what workers are allowed to see what sensitive information,
They do that already.  It's called "need to know".

Chris

Gewehr98

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 11,010
  • Yee-haa!
    • Neural Misfires (Blog)
Re: File Sharing, Like Drugs and Dissent, Supports Terrorism
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2007, 11:15:08 AM »
Chris, I don't believe he's ever been granted access to a SCIF, otherwise he'd know this is so last week:

Quote
All you can do is be more thorough in what workers are allowed to see what sensitive information, and if that includes logistics headaches like giving each worker a bit of unique false info when there's a suspected leak, to see whose "card" makes it to the enemy and back to intelligence gathering, so be it.

Go look up TS/SCI on the web, particularly the SCI portion of the access.  Injecting a tracer word or two is the tip of the iceberg with respect to how counter-intelligence is done.  Wink

(And Gawd, did I ever hate those Lifestyle polygraph tests...)


"Bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round...

http://neuralmisfires.blogspot.com

"Never squat with your spurs on!"

Perd Hapley

  • Superstar of the Internet
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 61,511
  • My prepositions are on/in
Re: File Sharing, Like Drugs and Dissent, Supports Terrorism
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2007, 11:28:46 AM »
Chris, I don't believe he's ever been granted access to a SCIF, otherwise he'd know this is so last week:

I don't remember what a SCIF is, but I only spent a few months in an Intelligence unit.  Yup, cellphones simply aren't allowed in some places. 
"Doggies are angel babies!" -- my wife

mtnbkr

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 15,388
Re: File Sharing, Like Drugs and Dissent, Supports Terrorism
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2007, 11:47:57 AM »
lol.  My "office" is a room that used to be a scif prior to this project, or so I'm told.  I do know it doesn't have very good ventilation and getting a cell signal is impossible with the door closed.  It barely works with  it open. 

Edit: Speeling error

Chris

Gewehr98

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 11,010
  • Yee-haa!
    • Neural Misfires (Blog)
Re: File Sharing, Like Drugs and Dissent, Supports Terrorism
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2007, 12:38:33 PM »
Just for giggles I figured I'd find an older Motorola STU-II or STU-III for my office at home, to sit next to my beloved SAC alert phone and remind me of the good old days in my windowless SCIF.  I didn't even want the secure key, just the base and handset to run on unsecured two-wire POTS. Good luck, it appears Uncle Sam simply destroys them when they're declared obsolete. I can, however, buy an Iridium Satellite Cell Phone, without the encryption sleeve.  The DoD will even let me have a contract to lease bandwidth (not cheap)!

"Bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round...

http://neuralmisfires.blogspot.com

"Never squat with your spurs on!"

mtnbkr

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 15,388
Re: File Sharing, Like Drugs and Dissent, Supports Terrorism
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2007, 12:43:45 PM »
I have stacks of 3DES VPN encryptors that are technically obsolete (manufacturer dropped them from the line years ago, they don't have enough bandwidth, and they don't support AES).  I've been tempted to use one at home to gain secure access to my home network from abroad. Smiley 

Quote
windowless SCIF
Yup, that's my office.  I do have a nifty vault door though. Smiley

Chris

Thor

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,230
  • US Navy (retired)
Re: File Sharing, Like Drugs and Dissent, Supports Terrorism
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2007, 12:58:02 PM »
Still a TON of file sharing going on in the IRC channels. I haven't noticed any slow down.
" a sword never kills anybody; it's a tool in the killer's hand." - Lucius Annaeus

for Military, Vets, & Supporters, check out:
USMILNET

Conservative Discussion Forum


RevDisk

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12,633
    • RevDisk.net
Re: File Sharing, Like Drugs and Dissent, Supports Terrorism
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2007, 02:27:58 PM »
Who said that dissent supports terrorism? 

I sense a disturbing lack of patriotism within you! 


Quote
The DoD is researching what it would take to ban cellphone cameras at the gates of military installations, as I type this. (Good luck with that, I had fun buying a new cellphone that DIDN'T have a built-in camera) The unit I was assigned to wouldn't even let calculator watches inside, let alone thumbdrives and cellphones.  Pagers could only be worn by the express written permission of the unit commander, and usually they were owned by the unit for mission alert purposes, or "loaners" for expectant fathers.

Per NSA guidance, furbies are forbidden as well.   police

(No, I'm not kidding.  Try bringing one into a SCIF.)

Yea, back at DISA, camera phones were forbidden from the base.  Normal cell phones were banned from the specific building.  Ditto USB devices, MP3 players, etc.  You pretty much had to get permission from the FSO for ANY electrionics.  Not that anything'd using the electromagnetic spectrum would get through the walls.  The amount of copper mesh shielding set in concrete is staggering. 

Except under very specific circumstances, it is forbidden under penalty of law to connect a secret or TS machine onto a public network.  The file sharing part of the report is mostly FUD.  Sure, you could lose sensitive but unclassified or FOUO material, which is a concern but not that much of a threat to national security.  VA seems to do that once a week anywho without filesharing programs.


Quote
Yup, that's my office.  I do have a nifty vault door though.

I managed to weasel an office outself the SCIF when I was doing frequency management work for a G6.  Between the chaplains and JAG.  I liked to say I had God on one side, and the law on the other.  My CO didn't think it was funny for some reason.  Probably because his office was at the TOC.  Did only a portion of my work inside the SCIF, thankfully.  I didn't care for the windowless bunker thing for months at a time, it sucks.  The nifty thing is that I got issued thermite grenades and an extra weapon for my office safe.  You'd THINK they'd have been smarter than to hand someone like me thermite, but the US Army was never known for its intelligence...


Quote
Just for giggles I figured I'd find an older Motorola STU-II or STU-III for my office at home, to sit next to my beloved SAC alert phone and remind me of the good old days in my windowless SCIF.  I didn't even want the secure key, just the base and handset to run on unsecured two-wire POTS. Good luck, it appears Uncle Sam simply destroys them when they're declared obsolete. I can, however, buy an Iridium Satellite Cell Phone, without the encryption sleeve.  The DoD will even let me have a contract to lease bandwidth (not cheap)!


Re STU's, you know, you can find a decent boat anchor at any marine supply store.  Much more useful.   grin

I wouldn't mind having a couple used Echo model SINCGARS.  Handy things, be great for backpacking.  I think I could get a training fill, sans KEK, to do freq hopping too.


Quote
Cameras now have lenses the size of a pinhole and can be hidden in nearly anything, and can be bought on eBay as such, in bulk, shipped from Hong Kong. Unless they literally scan for electronic devices, they're not going to get a determined malicious sort. Microelectronics are here, and soon they'll be nanoscale. Can't put that genie back in the bottle, so they'll have to actually innovate and allow technology to advance for security at entries. "Rules" aren't going to help much.


Uh yea.  The CI folks might disagree with ya. 

Course, you get caught doing espionage inside a SCIF, you disappear.  They send ya to prison for failing to report crypto violations.  You don't want to know what happens to folks who intentionally compromise US crypto systems.  You're better off never born than to be on the wrong end of an NSA investigation.  'em folks are creepy and downright scary.
"Rev, your picture is in my King James Bible, where Paul talks about "inventors of evil."  Yes, I know you'll take that as a compliment."  - Fistful, possibly highest compliment I've ever received.

wingnutx

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 927
  • Danish Cartoonist
    • http://www.punk-rock.com
Re: File Sharing, Like Drugs and Dissent, Supports Terrorism
« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2007, 07:11:19 PM »
Furbies have been banned for a long time. They are a recording device.

Perd Hapley

  • Superstar of the Internet
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 61,511
  • My prepositions are on/in
Re: File Sharing, Like Drugs and Dissent, Supports Terrorism
« Reply #15 on: March 15, 2007, 07:49:07 PM »
Who said that dissent supports terrorism? 

I'm beginning to question your allegiance

Oh please.  To say that one form of dissent supports terrorism is not to say that dissent itself supports terrorism.  I'm sure we would all recognize the distinction if it were made in some other area.  If I said that all Ford Fiesta wagons were junk, you wouldn't think I meant that all motor vehicles are junk. 
"Doggies are angel babies!" -- my wife

Gewehr98

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 11,010
  • Yee-haa!
    • Neural Misfires (Blog)
Re: File Sharing, Like Drugs and Dissent, Supports Terrorism
« Reply #16 on: March 16, 2007, 08:01:58 AM »
Quote
Re STU's, you know, you can find a decent boat anchor at any marine supply store.  Much more useful.

Yup, I know.  But I've had some very interesting conversations on a STU, especially when one "Goes Secure" and the little LCD panel says "White House Situation Room".  It happened a few times when I was forced to carry around an Iridium satellite phone, too.  I was in Bunky's Raw Bar at the time. Fond memories, the whole Andy Warhol 15 minutes thing, ya know...  Wink


Quote
If I said that all Ford Fiesta wagons were junk, you wouldn't think I meant that all motor vehicles are junk.

Fiesta or Festiva?  I had a metallic-green 1978 Ford Fiesta, and absolutely loved it.  It was a nimble little booger, sipped gasoline, had a bullet-proof tractor engine, and offered an amazing amount of internal space for such a tiny car.  I wish I would've kept it, it would make a nice SCCA Autocross car these days, or still a nice economical commuter for buzzing around Madison. I like this one:


"Bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round...

http://neuralmisfires.blogspot.com

"Never squat with your spurs on!"

Sylvilagus Aquaticus

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 833
    • http://profiles.yahoo.com/sylvilagus
Re: File Sharing, Like Drugs and Dissent, Supports Terrorism
« Reply #17 on: March 16, 2007, 08:11:41 AM »
When I worked for DHS in a secure environment, we had an edict prohibiting the then new camera phones from entering past the second layer. Same for USB drives, external hdisks, unauthorized floppies and cdrom disks.

Nothing terribly surprising there. Our Internet browsing was severely restricted as well. We were linked in at my location through a DoJ portal and couldn't even access CNN.com. We had some difficulty in obtaining our email accounts through the 'company' in a timely manner, so we all obtained Hushmail accounts- which were encrypted. The next day we were 'visited' by the site manager who was absolutely apoplectic that we were 'sending encrypted transmissions over he network'. After explaining what we were doing and why, our email accounts were provided that day before noon.


There was an ancient TV in our breakroom that only picked up one station. The only program that we could receive relatively clearly most days was 'Gomer Pyle, USMC'. Go figure.

Regards,
Rabbit.
To punish me for my contempt for authority, fate made me an authority myself.
Albert Einstein

Vodka7

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,067
Re: File Sharing, Like Drugs and Dissent, Supports Terrorism
« Reply #18 on: March 16, 2007, 11:50:51 AM »
Who said that dissent supports terrorism? 

I'm beginning to question your allegiance

Oh please.  To say that one form of dissent supports terrorism is not to say that dissent itself supports terrorism.  I'm sure we would all recognize the distinction if it were made in some other area.  If I said that all Ford Fiesta wagons were junk, you wouldn't think I meant that all motor vehicles are junk. 

I was just poking fun at a phrase I've seen lately here in a few different threads.  If you haven't noticed, quite often I am the lone dissenting opinion Tongue

Trisha

  • friend
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 123
Re: File Sharing, Like Drugs and Dissent, Supports Terrorism
« Reply #19 on: March 16, 2007, 01:15:00 PM »
Quote
(And Gawd, did I ever hate those Lifestyle polygraph tests...)

Ditto.  Thank the stars those days are decades past!
and cello sonatas flow through the air. . .

"Diversity is our strength!"

RevDisk

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12,633
    • RevDisk.net
Re: File Sharing, Like Drugs and Dissent, Supports Terrorism
« Reply #20 on: March 16, 2007, 03:39:36 PM »
Quote
Re STU's, you know, you can find a decent boat anchor at any marine supply store.  Much more useful.

Yup, I know.  But I've had some very interesting conversations on a STU, especially when one "Goes Secure" and the little LCD panel says "White House Situation Room".  It happened a few times when I was forced to carry around an Iridium satellite phone, too.  I was in Bunky's Raw Bar at the time. Fond memories, the whole Andy Warhol 15 minutes thing, ya know...  Wink


This one time I was in a comms room in a concrete block, checking for a down SIPR circuit.  I came across a OC circuit with a circuit ID, but no entry of where the other end of the line is going.  Fairly odd that.  We had more fiber in that place than all the health food stores in California.  And EVERY one of 'em is logged, tagged and coded.  Only, this one wasn't.  So I turn the unit off and on a couple times to see if anything interesting happens.  Eventually I get bored, and move on.  Reset the down SIPR circuit and go about my business. 

Eventually, I wonder why we go to a heightened alert status.  Apparently, 'someone' intentionally knocked out all landline comms to a secure national security facility and the black suits are going nuts.  Here's a clue, said facility been featured in "X-Files" a couple times.

...

Whoops.


Quote
(And Gawd, did I ever hate those Lifestyle polygraph tests...)

Here's a suggestion for any new nugget going for their first SCI with the lovely lifestyle poly.  This especially applies when the guy doing the questioning looks like he got booted from the IRS for not having enough of an outgoing personality.  When you meantion something negative that previously happened and the guy says "And if someone tried to blackmail you with this?", the appropriate answer is not "Kill him, then work my way up his chain killing them too."
"Rev, your picture is in my King James Bible, where Paul talks about "inventors of evil."  Yes, I know you'll take that as a compliment."  - Fistful, possibly highest compliment I've ever received.

Perd Hapley

  • Superstar of the Internet
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 61,511
  • My prepositions are on/in
Re: File Sharing, Like Drugs and Dissent, Supports Terrorism
« Reply #21 on: March 16, 2007, 07:44:26 PM »
If you haven't noticed, quite often I am the lone dissenting opinion Tongue

No, I hadn't.  I thought we were all in perfect agreement here.   undecided
"Doggies are angel babies!" -- my wife