Author Topic: Arrrg...Islamist hackers!  (Read 1822 times)

Manedwolf

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Arrrg...Islamist hackers!
« on: March 07, 2007, 12:47:39 PM »
Lovely, I get to stay late to deal with my company's website being defaced by an Islamist group.

Junk like "For Muslims, I to protesting America." and a crescent-and-star. Apparently same group that messed up some Sony websites recently.


I'd like to "protest" their a$$ all the way to allah with a daisy cutter at the moment.  angry

SpookyPistolero

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Re: Arrrg...Islamist hackers!
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2007, 12:55:28 PM »
'Hacker vs. hacker' doesn't seem like a very wise contest for such groups to engage in. Using guerilla implements, really basic stuff that you can't protect against, is another story.

Anyway, that really stinks that you had to stick around and clean up someone else's garbage. Hope you were able to get it all squared away.
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Manedwolf

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Re: Arrrg...Islamist hackers!
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2007, 01:04:18 PM »
'Hacker vs. hacker' doesn't seem like a very wise contest for such groups to engage in. Using guerilla implements, really basic stuff that you can't protect against, is another story.

Anyway, that really stinks that you had to stick around and clean up someone else's garbage. Hope you were able to get it all squared away.

I just want Gibson's old concept of Black Ice to be real. Hack into a corporate system, chance getting your brain burned.

RevDisk

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Re: Arrrg...Islamist hackers!
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2007, 03:08:32 PM »
Lovely, I get to stay late to deal with my company's website being defaced by an Islamist group.

Junk like "For Muslims, I to protesting America." and a crescent-and-star. Apparently same group that messed up some Sony websites recently.


I'd like to "protest" their a$$ all the way to allah with a daisy cutter at the moment.  angry

The concept is called "hackivism".  It ranges from developing anonymous networks (eg Tor, Freenet), developing cryptology tools to circumvent government restrictions, to active measures.  Some target govt/mil networks, others are low grade script kiddies who will deface any website possible.  There are various schools of thought, but most look down upon script kiddies.  For fairly obvious reasons.

I do find such antics to be annoying, I wouldn't advocate usage of fuel air explosives against civilian targets. 

If your company has a decent technical staff, you have valid backups and tested methods of diseaster recovery.  If your company is publically held, it's part of SOX compliance. Your servers are fully patched, all unnecessary services turned off, auditting programs enabled, and a means of restoring functionality in case something happens? 

If you wanted to be fancy, you'd install tripwire, some kind of hardware firewall, maybe an IDS, and offline hot servers.  A simple trick we use is creating images of our servers before we put them in service.  If a server is compromised or becomes faulty, we can re-image it, slap on hotfixes, harden it and have it back in service within an hour or two.   Longer for restoring files from tape, but I'm angling for more teras of disk storage for our backups.
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RevDisk

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Re: Arrrg...Islamist hackers!
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2007, 03:10:47 PM »

I just want Gibson's old concept of Black Ice to be real. Hack into a corporate system, chance getting your brain burned.

Until some hacker figures out how to reverse the authentication, and has the black ice burn out the sysadmin's brain.  Of course, I have a couple folks I'd like to have fail the black ice authentication handshake...   angel
"Rev, your picture is in my King James Bible, where Paul talks about "inventors of evil."  Yes, I know you'll take that as a compliment."  - Fistful, possibly highest compliment I've ever received.

Manedwolf

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Re: Arrrg...Islamist hackers!
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2007, 04:23:16 PM »
Lovely, I get to stay late to deal with my company's website being defaced by an Islamist group.

Junk like "For Muslims, I to protesting America." and a crescent-and-star. Apparently same group that messed up some Sony websites recently.


I'd like to "protest" their a$$ all the way to allah with a daisy cutter at the moment.  angry

The concept is called "hackivism".  It ranges from developing anonymous networks (eg Tor, Freenet), developing cryptology tools to circumvent government restrictions, to active measures.  Some target govt/mil networks, others are low grade script kiddies who will deface any website possible.  There are various schools of thought, but most look down upon script kiddies.  For fairly obvious reasons.

I do find such antics to be annoying, I wouldn't advocate usage of fuel air explosives against civilian targets. 

If your company has a decent technical staff, you have valid backups and tested methods of diseaster recovery.  If your company is publically held, it's part of SOX compliance. Your servers are fully patched, all unnecessary services turned off, auditting programs enabled, and a means of restoring functionality in case something happens? 

If you wanted to be fancy, you'd install tripwire, some kind of hardware firewall, maybe an IDS, and offline hot servers.  A simple trick we use is creating images of our servers before we put them in service.  If a server is compromised or becomes faulty, we can re-image it, slap on hotfixes, harden it and have it back in service within an hour or two.   Longer for restoring files from tape, but I'm angling for more teras of disk storage for our backups.

Well, we've found that the intrusion originated in Turkey, and the stuff put up is about Muslims and anti-America. So I'll call it terrorism, not "hacktivism", myself. It's an attack on a US business by a Muslim terrorist.

And if there was a way to positively ID them, damn right I'd want them dealt with like any other terrorist. We can't have them doing that to our corporations, interrupting business and hurting our economy, possibly endangering lives if they get into medical, first-responder, or power/water/etc systems.

It's war. They keep trying new battlefields to hurt us, either in big bites or little nibbles that add up to the same. I think we need to recognize it as such.



CAnnoneer

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Re: Arrrg...Islamist hackers!
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2007, 08:50:57 PM »
What a brave new world we live in. A random wanker half a world away is just keystrokes away from ruining your day...

RevDisk

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Re: Arrrg...Islamist hackers!
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2007, 04:35:32 PM »

Well, we've found that the intrusion originated in Turkey, and the stuff put up is about Muslims and anti-America. So I'll call it terrorism, not "hacktivism", myself. It's an attack on a US business by a Muslim terrorist.

And if there was a way to positively ID them, damn right I'd want them dealt with like any other terrorist. We can't have them doing that to our corporations, interrupting business and hurting our economy, possibly endangering lives if they get into medical, first-responder, or power/water/etc systems.

It's war. They keep trying new battlefields to hurt us, either in big bites or little nibbles that add up to the same. I think we need to recognize it as such.

Ironically, one of my hosted domains was hit by Turkish hackers.  Very primitive, just a 0-day script kiddie who posted "So and So haX0red your site" along with a few pop-ups to get ad money.  I'd personally be more pissed that someone hijacked my domain for financial purposes than to make a political statement, pathetic as it may be. 

Defining "terrorism" to include "defacing a commercial website" is stretching things a bit far.  If graffiti is considered terrorism, it demeans those that died from real terrorism and not just inside the US.  You had a bad day because you had to dig out a backup tape and slap it on one of your servers.  Real terrorism is another story.  Tell it to someone that survived ethnic cleansing, or survived a IRA bombing, or a family member of someone who died from any real terrorist attack.

Ten thousand acts of graffiti do not equal one human life.


If some hacker did damage to medical, first-responder, or power/water/etc systems by defacing a website, I'd have the SysAdmin shot first before the hacker.  Extreme negligence bordering on aiding and abetting.  Any twit that'd hook up critical systems to a public network shouldn't be let within twenty paces of a router.  It's actually a crime to do so with a goverment computer with a yellow or red tag.

"Rev, your picture is in my King James Bible, where Paul talks about "inventors of evil."  Yes, I know you'll take that as a compliment."  - Fistful, possibly highest compliment I've ever received.

Manedwolf

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Re: Arrrg...Islamist hackers!
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2007, 05:52:11 PM »

Well, we've found that the intrusion originated in Turkey, and the stuff put up is about Muslims and anti-America. So I'll call it terrorism, not "hacktivism", myself. It's an attack on a US business by a Muslim terrorist.

And if there was a way to positively ID them, damn right I'd want them dealt with like any other terrorist. We can't have them doing that to our corporations, interrupting business and hurting our economy, possibly endangering lives if they get into medical, first-responder, or power/water/etc systems.

It's war. They keep trying new battlefields to hurt us, either in big bites or little nibbles that add up to the same. I think we need to recognize it as such.

Ironically, one of my hosted domains was hit by Turkish hackers.  Very primitive, just a 0-day script kiddie who posted "So and So haX0red your site" along with a few pop-ups to get ad money.  I'd personally be more pissed that someone hijacked my domain for financial purposes than to make a political statement, pathetic as it may be. 

Defining "terrorism" to include "defacing a commercial website" is stretching things a bit far.  If graffiti is considered terrorism, it demeans those that died from real terrorism and not just inside the US.  You had a bad day because you had to dig out a backup tape and slap it on one of your servers.  Real terrorism is another story.  Tell it to someone that survived ethnic cleansing, or survived a IRA bombing, or a family member of someone who died from any real terrorist attack.

Ten thousand acts of graffiti do not equal one human life.


If some hacker did damage to medical, first-responder, or power/water/etc systems by defacing a website, I'd have the SysAdmin shot first before the hacker.  Extreme negligence bordering on aiding and abetting.  Any twit that'd hook up critical systems to a public network shouldn't be let within twenty paces of a router.  It's actually a crime to do so with a goverment computer with a yellow or red tag.



If they're causing losses to our commercial systems, they're attacking our economy. They're terrorists. And we either stop them, or we die of a million papercuts.

That's my take on the matter. This so-called "defacement" causes time and money to fix, causing losses of productivity and economic losses. It is an attack. Period.

And if someone is attacking in support of terrorist organizations, I value their life not at all. Doesn't even count as "a human life" to me, any more than some jihadist that a GI nails while they're planting IEDs in Iraq.

mtnbkr

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Re: Arrrg...Islamist hackers!
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2007, 05:55:04 PM »
You should fire your security guy.  Find someone that can harden a system, install some sort of IDS, firewall, etc, and move on.  Maybe even go as far as to set up an attractive honeypot so they'll spend their time there rather than on your production systems.  Let them post "deth to teh amurikans" all they want.

Chris


client32

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Re: Arrrg...Islamist hackers!
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2007, 06:42:48 PM »
You should fire your security guy.  Find someone that can harden a system, install some sort of IDS, firewall, etc, and move on.  Maybe even go as far as to set up an attractive honeypot so they'll spend their time there rather than on your production systems.  Let them post "deth to teh amurikans" all they want.

Chris



Or maybe they need to hire one.
There are a lot of places that don't have any thought of security until something bad happens.

As already alluded to, now you get to see what your disaster recovery is like.

It reminds me of something that happened the first month of a place I worked.  They had one web site/app on an old NT box (I think it was 3.51 but maybe 4) and the front page got defaced.  Part of a Chinese hack day pr something.  The brilliant minds that I worked at the time would just fix the index page and go on until they got another call about it being hacked.  I sat down looked through the logs, saw what was happening (script kiddies, possibly even a bot) patched the server then went about my day.  I have often wondered why some people get the jobs they do.  Looking back at the time of the cnn article, that would have been my second week.  A second incedent that 2nd week made me think "What have I gotten myself into"
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K Frame

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Re: Arrrg...Islamist hackers!
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2007, 04:55:21 AM »
"Ten thousand acts of graffiti do not equal one human life."

You're absolutely right.

Luckily, over the past couple of years I've undergone something of a transformation where I'm seeing these individuals as something less than human and more akin to animals.


Look at it this way, Manedwolf. These people just did some testing for you that will allow you to tighten up your systems.
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Sindawe

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Re: Arrrg...Islamist hackers!
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2007, 06:04:33 AM »
Quote
There are a lot of places that don't have any thought of security until something bad happens.

And there are places that don't think much about it even AFTER something bad happens.  About the 3rd or 4th week in my tenure at my current employer one of our sites gots hacked.  Then there was the time the boss brought a virus in on his laptop and it started to spread into the network.  Despite that, its still an unbelievable hassle to get things secured.

I need a new job....
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client32

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Re: Arrrg...Islamist hackers!
« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2007, 08:46:27 AM »
And there are places that don't think much about it even AFTER something bad happens.  About the 3rd or 4th week in my tenure at my current employer one of our sites gots hacked.  Then there was the time the boss brought a virus in on his laptop and it started to spread into the network.  Despite that, its still an unbelievable hassle to get things secured.

We give lip service to security here, then nothing.  Sounds much the same as what you have.

I need a new job....
Me too.
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RevDisk

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Re: Arrrg...Islamist hackers!
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2007, 06:10:41 AM »
If they're causing losses to our commercial systems, they're attacking our economy. They're terrorists. And we either stop them, or we die of a million papercuts.

That's my take on the matter. This so-called "defacement" causes time and money to fix, causing losses of productivity and economic losses. It is an attack. Period.

And if someone is attacking in support of terrorist organizations, I value their life not at all. Doesn't even count as "a human life" to me, any more than some jihadist that a GI nails while they're planting IEDs in Iraq.

No, botnets and zombies (the computer kind) are causing massive losses to our commercial systems.  Russian organized crime is at the forefront of 'cybercrime', not Islamic-centric hackers.  Talk about focusing on the wrong problem...   Defacements of an HTTP server are cause nearly zero damage compared to viruses, worms and malware.  You want to complain about 'hard work', try un-Charlie-Foxtroting a network loaded with a decent worm if your bosses refuse to buy you the correct tools.  For every one Islamic script kiddie, you have a dozen PROFESSIONAL hackers working for some kind of organized crime outfit running botnets, corporate espionage, and mass spamming. 

Where do you think all that spam comes from?  Think of how much that spam is costing your company.  You have to harden your SMTP server, add in spamassassain or have your mail forwarded through a specialized anti-spam service, deal with bandwidth costs, add in the hidden ISP charges for spam bandwidth, etc etc.

I've heard random news clips of "One in x home Windows PC's is part of at least one botnet."   I absolutely believe it.  Spyware is even more prevalent.

Some kiddie half a world away ran a script he downloaded from somewhere against your poorly secured server.  He puts up a probably pretty stupid HTML file with some pathetic 'political' message you don't like.  Now you believe all political hackers should be treated as terrorists, and that we should ignore the real threats in order to focus on a rare occurance.  I'd say you should run for Congress, but I think that might be considered a personal insult so I'll leave it unsaid...   angel


Quote
And there are places that don't think much about it even AFTER something bad happens.  About the 3rd or 4th week in my tenure at my current employer one of our sites gots hacked.  Then there was the time the boss brought a virus in on his laptop and it started to spread into the network.  Despite that, its still an unbelievable hassle to get things secured.

I need a new job....

My current employer thankfully is decently security minded, for a corporate environment.  They didn't have a security specialist, as most small to mid sized businesses do.  I never thought I'd say this, but I'm almost thankful for SOX compliance.  I've been budgetted some very nice security and DR tools.  Guess it's a trade off, PITA and better budgetting.   


Seriously, tho.  Unless there is a compelling business reason, move your public web server to a hosting company.  It's probably cheaper in the long run, as well as more secure.  If you need an externally accessable intranet website, put it on your DMZ.  Make sure you have a decent AV (I recommend Kaspersky).  Have an automated patch system in place, if you have no budget, go with WSUS.  I sincerely hope you're using a centralized patch location so that each of your client machines is not soaking up your uplink to the internet.  Turn off AutoUpdating.  Test patches before deploying.  Try to get a spare PC or two for testing, ditto a spare server.  Keep a very close eye on your backups and always look for better ways of managing them.  Make sure you have a hardware firewall (Cisco PIX's are relatively cheap), that is decently configured. 

If you do your job correctly, you can improve security AND performance with a little effort.
"Rev, your picture is in my King James Bible, where Paul talks about "inventors of evil."  Yes, I know you'll take that as a compliment."  - Fistful, possibly highest compliment I've ever received.