Student Loan Forgiveness

[HankB]

So, are they going to reimburse those who played Responsible Adult and paid their student loans?

Brad

No, they'll raise taxes on those people since, now being debt free, they now have the ability to help others - you know, from each according to their ability, to each according to their needs.

[charby]

Eh?  Think the usual line is that guns should be bought back as firearms related violence continues to plague our communities and disproportionately impacts socioeconomically disadvantaged groups and racial minorities.

Fun hater. 

[Boomhauer]

I owe $9k student loans. It’s my debt to bear and repay. I wasn’t held at gunpoint to take them out.

Forgive it and you are rewarding the legions of students who took out the student loans, stayed in class long enough to get the surplus reimbursement that was intended for books and supplies, then dropped out and rinsed and repeated for as many years as they could do so. They spent that money like it was going out of style*. You aren’t paying for the people who used loans responsibility and went to work with their degree responsibly, you are paying for the same loser *expletive deleted*s that wasted your time in high school being idiots and then went on to do idiot things afterwards.


*Plus the bookstores sell flat screen TVs, gaming consoles, and gaming PCs plus other high dollar consumer electronics, all for an inflated price and you can buy it all with student loan money. So the universities tacitly approve of these actions.

[Hawkmoon]

Vanquished?  That makes it sound like they have magical power.

Sounds more like they have a sword and lance, and they think they're fighting dragons.

[RocketMan]

So, are they going to reimburse those who played Responsible Adult and paid their student loans?

Brad

No, because those people were just exercising their toxic white privilege.

[RocketMan]

Free guns too

Finally, a government program I can support.

[WLJ]

Finally, a government program I can support.

It does say "shall not be infringed" and money can be considered an infringement to that right. Just saying

[Angel Eyes]

*Plus the bookstores sell flat screen TVs, gaming consoles, and gaming PCs plus other high dollar consumer electronics, all for an inflated price and you can buy it all with student loan money. So the universities tacitly approve of these actions.

Hmm ... I didn't know that.

Now that I do ...     

or maybe ...          

[MillCreek]

I do find it interesting that so many other First World countries provide higher education to their citizens at low or very heavily-subsidized tuition rates.  And yet we cannot.  One of the fundamental tenets of economic growth is to invest in human capital since healthy and educated citizens generally help the economy and country to grow and prosper.  The devil is in the details, but does the US really pay attention to investing in our human capital, I wonder.

[K Frame]

I do find it interesting that so many other First World countries provide higher education to their citizens at low or very heavily-subsidized tuition rates.  And yet we cannot.  One of the fundamental tenets of economic growth is to invest in human capital since healthy and educated citizens generally help the economy and country to grow and prosper.  The devil is in the details, but does the US really pay attention to investing in our human capital, I wonder.

That's some bullshit socialist talk there, you Commie! 

[dogmush]

I do find it interesting that so many other First World countries provide higher education to their citizens at low or very heavily-subsidized tuition rates.  And yet we cannot.  One of the fundamental tenets of economic growth is to invest in human capital since healthy and educated citizens generally help the economy and country to grow and prosper.  The devil is in the details, but does the US really pay attention to investing in our human capital, I wonder.

A lot of other countries have highly educated people doing no, or menial, labor¹ too.  Just because an investment was made does not mean it was a good investment, or that it will provide any return.  Frankly, in a country of 320 million people there is a lot of human capitol that isn't worth giving much more than a high school² education to.  Our system isn't perfect by any means, but until recently it was at least understood that if you wanted to gamble on yourself and your worth as human capital you did it with YOUR money.  You could get an advance on YOUR money (from presumed future earnings) but you were still betting your assets on yourself.  Now that a couple hundred thousand people have lost that bet they suddenly want to act surprised that it was their money they were betting, and the rest of us, that made better investments, are somehow morally responsible to cover their losses?  Why? 

Or alternatively, if I have to pay off student loans with my taxes, do I get a say in what degrees people get loans for going forward?  Should the state provide acceptable degrees and quotas for them to finance?  Wouldn't that be the smart way to "invest" in human capital, not willy nilly what kids are interested in, but what we need?


1. Or those country import poor people to do the menial labor that their educated citizens are no longer willing to.  The migrant labor programs in the Mid-East are truly eye-opening in this regard,

2. High school level as it meant thirty years ago or so, not this "no Child Left Behind" functional illiteracy we get at 12th grade now.

[K Frame]

"Just because an investment was made does not mean it was a good investment, or that it will provide any return."

But... BUT FREE EDUCATION! IT'S A HUMAN RIGHT!

Yep. Spot on.

[Ben]

I do find it interesting that so many other First World countries provide higher education to their citizens at low or very heavily-subsidized tuition rates.  And yet we cannot.  One of the fundamental tenets of economic growth is to invest in human capital since healthy and educated citizens generally help the economy and country to grow and prosper.  The devil is in the details, but does the US really pay attention to investing in our human capital, I wonder.

I don't know the number, but I would be interested to see a percentage breakdown of degrees by type in these countries.  I would hazard to guess there are not a lot of PhDs in BLM.

Additionally, US students might not like the rules of many of these "free" (in quotes because someone is still paying) universities. Germany, for instance, has no problem telling you to your face that you're not college material and that you should look elsewhere. Part of investing in human capital is knowing when you're dealing with a bad investment. I'm guessing that wouldn't go over well with the snowflake kids we're talking about here. Below is a wiki link with general info about German schooling. Note the requirements to get into University. Hint: they are academic, not skin color or other bullshit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Germany

[charby]

I don't know the number, but I would be interested to see a percentage breakdown of degrees by type in these countries.  I would hazard to guess there are not a lot of PhDs in BLM.

Additionally, US students might not like the rules of many of these "free" (in quotes because someone is still paying) universities. Germany, for instance, has no problem telling you to your face that you're not college material and that you should look elsewhere. Part of investing in human capital is knowing when you're dealing with a bad investment. I'm guessing that wouldn't go over well with the snowflake kids we're talking about here. Below is a wiki link with general info about German schooling. Note the requirements to get into University. Hint: they are academic, not skin color or other bullshit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Germany

I don't have a problem with that, everyone (with no learning disabilities) gets the same education through 8th grade. Everyone is assessed that year and your assessment score determines which type of HS you go to. Parents can't argue in their little Johnny or Suzy didn't well enough to get into going to college prep school. 2nd year of HS student are assessed again, which is another opportunity to finish in a college prep school, trade route or just a general education, different campuses for each. After graduation, the college prep route are the only ones allowed in a 4 year university after only meeting minimal scores on a assessment exam. Anyone who graduates (regardless of route) is eligible to be accepted to a community college, successful graduation from the community college and passing an assessment would allow for admission into a university. Trade route HS in your junior and senior year will have enough hands on classes where either entering an apprenticeship program or trade school a success. Anyone trying to game the system, parents, students, educators face imprisonment or loss of higher education privilege. Can not educate for the exam, basically given standards and benchmarks in education and any of that material will be on the assessment exam. Geez, starting to sound like a Fascist. :)

To make this work it would take an act of god for a foreign national to get a skilled trade or professional workers visa. Companies can't request foreign visas for skilled trade or professional workers because they can't afford or don't want to pay American's with the desired trade or professional education/experience. Possibly even control how many students can be in each major/trade area depending upon demand by private and public industry.

and school isn't free beyond HS, every one needs to pay something (or be sponsored by a company)

etc.

[MillCreek]

After reading Ben's link, interesting that homeschooling is illegal in Germany, and parents cannot opt their kids out of sex ed classes.

[AZRedhawk44]

They flooded the colleges with people that had no business being in college. They didn't have the background, intellectual firepower or self discipline to succeed.

This in spades.

2020 had about 20 million enrolled college students, according to this link:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/183995/us-college-enrollment-and-projections-in-public-and-private-institutions/

According to here, 69% of high school graduates go on to some form of college:
https://educationdata.org/college-enrollment-statistics

Think about the typical High School matriculation body.  Then realize that over 2/3 of them are going on to college.  It's no longer the best and brightest.  It's just the rote and norm.  The best and brightest either scramble through all that and emerge on top in spite of the crowded pool, or they find a different path altogether.

This is an enormous investment that isn't panning out at the individual level, and is yet again "too big to fail."  So it will be collectivized, somehow.

Of course, college wasn't the sole domain of the best and brightest, it was also the domain of the well connected.  And those that are neither connected nor best/bright are realizing they can excel in mob violence and collective intimidation.  Which earns them recognition from the next generation of well connected they are meeting while in their college years.

[Ben]

Think about the typical High School matriculation body.  Then realize that over 2/3 of them are going on to college.  It's no longer the best and brightest.  It's just the rote and norm.  The best and brightest either scramble through all that and emerge on top in spite of the crowded pool, or they find a different path altogether.

Part of this is that you are somehow a "failure" if you don't go to college. Which leads to the women's studies burger flippers.

To use Germany again, they may tell you straight up that you don't belong in University, but they point you to trade school, and more importantly, create a culture of respect for trade school. While the German culture itself still does a lot of royalty related class stuff, like looking at Professors or Doctors as superior ("Herr Doktor"), the electrician is still respected for his skill, not looked at as an uneducated blue color slob redneck.

Mike Rowe should have had a position in the Trump admin.

[brimic]

1. Forgive debt
2. Put in government mandated price and wage controls in universities.
 

[Ron]

As someone mentioned earlier, I'd also support the clearing of school debt through bankruptcy.

Banks and education institutions should eat it, not the taxpayers.

*Neither myself or anyone close to me still has any school loans to pay off, so my opinion on this matter is not influenced by personal gain.

  

[Hawkmoon]

As someone mentioned earlier, I'd also support the clearing of school debt through bankruptcy.

Banks and education institutions should eat it, not the taxpayers.

I would prefer that the universities eat the bulk of it rather than the banks. There are far too many "universities" (and I put that in quotation marks because I don't regard most of them as true universities) that are nothing but degree mills. There's one near me that was just a small, independent college that nobody in their right mind would have wanted to attend when I was in high school. Today it's a "university." It has a very high percentage of foreign students, many of whom barely speak English. But they have parents with money, or governments that are willing to pay for an education in the United States. This "university" doesn't pay its faculty especially well, doesn't have a sterling educational reputation, yet it costs as much to attend as many colleges and universities I regard as more legitimate. For the 2020-2021 academic year, this place costs over $61,000 to attend.

[HankB]

After reading Ben's link, interesting that homeschooling is illegal in Germany, and parents cannot opt their kids out of sex ed classes.

I've read horror stories of kids being seized by the State for brainwashing . . . including the children of immigrants literally taken off the plane as they and their parents were on the way out of Germany. Usually the kids are placed in foster care. In one case, authorities were VERY upset when a girl fled her foster jailers parents in the middle of the night on her birthday literally hours after she turned 16.

Apparently there's a quiet little underground industry of rescuing these children and helping them and their parents escape the country for some other EU nation.