Author Topic: ABA Responds to DC's 2nd Amend Ruling  (Read 1858 times)

Ned Hamford

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ABA Responds to DC's 2nd Amend Ruling
« on: March 18, 2007, 02:58:44 PM »
Gun Control Back on the Burner
Experts disagree whether Supreme Court will hear appeal of D.C. Circuit ruling

By Stephanie Francis Ward

In the contentious battle over gun control, it seems even the fate of a recent appellate decision is open for vociferous debate.

The one matter on which both sides agree is that the decision, issued March 9, in a case filed four years ago, brings the argument over the Second Amendments guarantee of the right of the people to keep and bear arms back to the front burner.

Bruce Ackerman, a Yale Law School professor, says the decision, which strikes down portions of Washington, D.C., gun control laws, will be short-lived. Parker v. District of Columbia, No. 04-7041.

He notes the opinion by the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit was 2-1, with a dissent by Judge Karen LeCraft Henderson criticizing the majority for what she says is its disregard of U.S. Supreme Court precedent.

The court of appeals is way out of line here, Ackerman says. Theres settled law, and suddenly two judges say, Lets have a little micro-revolution here. 

This is judicial vanguardism, Ackerman adds. He suspects the opinion will be reversed en banc, and doubts the case could get the four votes needed for Supreme Court review.

But Nelson Lund, a professor at George Mason University School of Law in Arlington, Va., is among those who disagree. Much of his academic work centers on studying the Second Amendment.

Id be surprised if this were vacated by an en banc court, Lund says. If it stands, I think its probable that the U.S. Supreme Court will accept [the case]. 

If the Supreme Court decides the case on the legal merits, its a very easy case, Lund adds. This D.C. law is clearly unconstitutional.

The D.C. Circuits opinion maintains the Second Amendment protects an individual right to bear arms.

The city argued the amendments authors intended for the provision to apply only to organized militia members. At the time, the country didnt have an organized police force, municipal lawyers maintained, and states needed weapons to shield their militias from federal encroachment. Last week, Washington, D.C., Mayor Adrian M. Fenty said the city will appeal the D.C. Circuits ruling.

A significant portion of the opinion is devoted to semantics. The amendments wordingA well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringedis divided into two clauses, the opinion states. The operative clause indicates the authors meant that most citizens had a right to bear arms, Judge Laurence H. Silberman wrote, regardless of militia affiliation.

In sum, the phrase the right of the people, when read intratextually and in light of Supreme Court precedent, leads us to conclude that the right in question is individual, the opinion states. This proposition is true even though the people at the time of the founding was not as inclusive a concept as the people today. 

Also, he writes that the Bill of Rights is almost entirely a declaration of individual rights. Since it includes the Second Amendment, Silberman says, that strongly indicates the provision was intended to protect personal liberty.

Every other provision of the Bill of Rights, excepting the 10th, which speaks explicitly about the allocation of governmental power, protects rights enjoyed by citizens in their individual capacity, the opinion states. The Second Amendment would be an inexplicable aberration if it were not read to protect individual rights as well.

One D.C. ordinance that was challenged prohibits carrying a pistol without a license. Obtaining such a license is virtually impossible, the appellants say, because the city generally bars the registration of handguns.

It is not illegal to keep a handgun in your house if it was purchased before 1976, when the city banned handgun ownership. But city ordinances prohibit licensed gun owners from moving the weapon within their private property, and lawfully owned firearms must be kept disassembled or bound by a trigger lock.

The law does allow individuals to have licensed, functional guns to protect businesses or for recreational use, such as hunting.

But you cant have any type of gun assembled in your house, and its a misdemeanor to walk around with a gun in your home or on your land, says Alan Gura, a D.C. lawyer who represents the plaintiffs. The law is extremely far-reaching and very draconian.

One of the six appellants is a Georgetown woman who owns a licensed shotgun. Another worked as a special police officer at a federal courthouse. Off-duty police officers in D.C. cannot carry firearms, and when the man finished his shift, he stored his weapon in a locker at work. He tried to register his gun with the city, the February 2003 lawsuit maintains, but was denied.

Our mission was very simplewe want the court to focus on the nature of the Second Amendment right, Gura says. If it means anything at all, it must mean that a law-obeying individual can have an ordinary functioning firearm, including a handgun, inside their house.

The D.C. attorney generals office will not comment on the matter, spokeswoman Traci Hughes says.

David M. Gossett, a D.C. lawyer who submitted an amicus brief supporting the citys position, says the majority decision is disappointing. His brief, filed on behalf of the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence, analyzed the history of the Second Amendment.

We found that the clear understanding of the founding fathers was all about preserving state militias and had nothing to do with an individual right of self-defense, Gossett says.

He says that when the Second Amendment was written, some states did have laws providing an individual right to bear arms. If the framers intended the Second Amendment to protect an individuals right to bear arms, Gossett says, its language would have been more similar to state laws extending such a right.

This is the second federal appeals court ruling to say the Second Amendment extends an individual right to bear arms. The 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, based in New Orleans, found in 2001 that the Second Amendment does protect an individual right to gun ownership, but the government could restrict that right. U.S. v. Emerson, 270 F.3d 203. But the 9th Circuit, based in San Francisco, found in 2002 that the Second Amendment does not provide an individual right to own guns. Silveira v. Lockyer, 312 F.3d 1052.

Despite numerous attempts since 2001 to use the Second Amendment to overturn various gun ownership bans, the Supreme Court has not ruled on such cases since 1939, when the court found that ownership of certain types of firearms could be restricted. U.S. v. Miller, 307 U.S. 174.

I think the U.S. Supreme Court has ignored this issue since 1939to be in the Bill of Rights and have so little precedent is very strange, says Stephen Halbrook, a Fairfax, Va., lawyer who represents firearm associations, manufacturers and owners.


©2007 ABA Journal
Improbus a nullo flectitur obsequio.

SteveS

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Re: ABA Responds to DC's 2nd Amend Ruling
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2007, 05:39:15 PM »
The ABA is very anti-gun.  About 5 or 6 years ago, they were encouraging municipalities to sue gun companies because legislatures weren't doing enough to stop "gun violence."
Profanity is the linguistic crutch of the inarticulate mother****er.

Sergeant Bob

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Re: ABA Responds to DC's 2nd Amend Ruling
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2007, 05:57:05 PM »
The ABA is very anti-gun.  About 5 or 6 years ago, they were encouraging municipalities to sue gun companies because lawyers could make a lot of money
I fixed that for you.
Personally, I do not understand how a bunch of people demanding a bigger govt can call themselves anarchist.
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SteveS

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Re: ABA Responds to DC's 2nd Amend Ruling
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2007, 06:12:21 PM »
From the ABA page on gun violence:

1965
The ABA supports legislation to amend the Federal Firearms Act of 1934, to, inter alia: require licensing of dealers in interstate commerce of firearms; prohibit sales to felons, fugitives, persons under indictment, adjudicated mental incompetents and minors; restrict sale of handguns to residents of the state where purchased; and control commerce and importation of larger caliber weapons and firearms in general.

1973
The ABA supports legislation to limit the sale and possession of cheap, foreign-made handguns.

1975
The ABA supports legislation to amend to the Gun Control Act of 1968, to, inter alia: prohibit interstate sales by unlicensed persons of ammunition and firearms components; define the term "firearms for sporting purposes"; upgrade standards of eligibility for licensing of dealers, requiring background checks of applicants and making conferral of such licenses discretionary rather than mandatory; require dealers, manufacturers, transporters and importers of firearms and ammunition to provide adequate and secure storage facilities in order to reduce theft of firearms and ammunition; mandate a waiting period prior to firearms purchases for a criminal background check by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms; encourage severe, but not mandatory, penalties for offenses involving firearms; and require periodic review of eligibility of handgun possessors consistent with due process of law.

1983
The ABA supports the enactment of appropriate penalties to deter firearms-related crimes; endorses effective and proven measures to control the possession of handguns; and opposes efforts to repeal provisions of the Gun Control Act of 1968.

1991
The ABA supports legislation to encourage gun safety education programs, and to provide for penalties for adults' failure to properly safeguard firearms.

1993
The ABA supports legislation to limit availability of assault weapons to the military and law enforcement organizations.

1994
The ABA reaffirms its policies regarding the regulation of firearms; encourages a multi-disciplinary education and awareness effort to prevent and reduce gun violence; supports amending the Gun Control Act of 1968 to expand the list of persons prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms, require a federal license for any person to posses a personal arsenal of firearms or ammunition, provide that Federal Firearms licenses be limited to bona fide firearms dealers, and provide authority to the federal government to regulate firearms as consumer products; and supports legislation that would require gun-owners to obtain and maintain a current handgun license, that all handguns be registered, and that would increase the federal tax on handguns and handgun-ammunition.

Full Text of 1994 policies
1996
The ABA supports amending the Gun Control Act of 1968 to provide a private cause of action, with concurrent state and federal jurisdiction, for those persons sustaining injury or damage as a result of a violation of the Act; and supports legislation to adopt and extend state and territorial laws to provide civil claims for relief for those persons sustaining injury or damage as a result of a violation of state, territorial or municipal laws regulating the use, sale, possession, license, ownership, or control of firearms or ammunition.

Full Text of 1996 policy
1998
The ABA supports a comprehensive approach to address gun violence by young persons at schools that includes preventative school-based peer mediation programs, firearms education programs, support for increased efforts to enforce laws to prevent unauthorized or illegal access to firearms by minors, and enactment of firearm laws that emphasize prevention, adult responsibility, and safety.

Full text of 1998 policy
2001
The ABA opposes federal, state or territorial legislation to create special legal immunity for the firearms industry from civil tort liability.

Full Text of 2001 policy
2004
The ABA supports stronger enforcement and prosecution of federal gun laws.

Full Text of 2004 policy


You can see the page on:  http://www.abanet.org/gunviol/abapolicyongunviolence/home.shtml

It gets even better.  From their page on second amendment issues:

"Yet the perception that the Second Amendment is somehow an obstacle to Congress and state and local legislative bodies fashioning laws to regulate firearms remains a pervasive myth. The gun lobby has conducted extensive and expensive campaigns to foster this misperception and the result has been that the myth of the "absolute bar of the Second Amendment" has real effects on regulatory efforts.

As lawyers, as representatives of the legal profession, and as recognized experts on the meaning of the Constitution and our system of justice, we share a responsibility to the public and lawmakers to "say what the law is." The ABA is committed to bringing about a more reasoned and lawyerly discussion of the meaning and import of the Second Amendment."
Profanity is the linguistic crutch of the inarticulate mother****er.

MattC

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Re: ABA Responds to DC's 2nd Amend Ruling
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2007, 06:45:47 PM »
Quote
This is judicial vanguardism, Ackerman adds.

When "activism" turns cliche, use more elitist terminology to set yourself apart from the masses while saying the same thing.

Manedwolf

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Re: ABA Responds to DC's 2nd Amend Ruling
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2007, 08:04:08 PM »
Quote
In the contentious battle over gun control, it seems even the fate of a recent appellate decision is open for vociferous debate.

And the media tries to create the news yet again. Vociferous debate? Only because the reporter has declared it so. All I see is the decision by judges, a lot of support for that decision, and the ABA and a few obsessed, reality-challenged whiners, nothing but the usual suspects, complaining about it.

HankB

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Re: ABA Responds to DC's 2nd Amend Ruling
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2007, 04:05:15 AM »
1965 The ABA supports legislation to amend the Federal Firearms Act of 1934 . . .
1973 The ABA supports legislation to limit the sale and possession  . . .
1975 . . .
1983 . . .
1991 . . .
1993 . . .
1994 . . .
1996 . . .
1998 . . .
2001 . . .
2004 . . .

And the ABA wonders why people dislike lawyers.  rolleyes
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El Tejon

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Re: ABA Responds to DC's 2nd Amend Ruling
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2007, 04:09:23 AM »
They took an oath to defend the Constitution.  Apparently the ABA has a copy that reads differently than the one I have. angry
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SteveS

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Re: ABA Responds to DC's 2nd Amend Ruling
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2007, 05:39:05 AM »
I don't think most people know about the ABA's position on guns.  I belonged to them for 6 or 7 months before I read an article in their magazine on gun violence.  It lamented the unwillingness of legislatures to "get tough on gun violence," and encouraged cities to sue gun manufacturers.  I poked around their website and found the information I quoted above.  I cancelled my member ship and have never looked back.
Profanity is the linguistic crutch of the inarticulate mother****er.

El Tejon

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Re: ABA Responds to DC's 2nd Amend Ruling
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2007, 06:16:23 AM »
I used to get solicitations to join.  I would write back explaining why I would never join them.  The mailing have stopped, I think they consider me a lost cause. grin
I do not smoke pot, wear Wookie suits, live in my mom's basement, collect unemployment checks or eat Cheetoes, therefore I am not a Ron Paul voter.

Leatherneck

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Re: ABA Responds to DC's 2nd Amend Ruling
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2007, 06:37:39 AM »
Quote
As lawyers, as representatives of the legal profession, and as recognized experts on the meaning of the Constitution and our system of justice, we share a responsibility to the public and lawmakers to "say what the law is." The ABA is committed to bringing about a more reasoned and lawyerly discussion of the meaning and import of the Second Amendment.


"I'm the only one in this room qualified to......BLAM!  grin

TC
TC
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El Tejon

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Re: ABA Responds to DC's 2nd Amend Ruling
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2007, 06:50:42 AM »
Civil rights, like guns, are only for the Elite, not you serfs.

Now go dance in a circle while you give me 60% of your crop.  Dance, serf!
I do not smoke pot, wear Wookie suits, live in my mom's basement, collect unemployment checks or eat Cheetoes, therefore I am not a Ron Paul voter.

Ned Hamford

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Re: ABA Responds to DC's 2nd Amend Ruling
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2007, 07:19:28 AM »
Civil rights, like guns, are only for the Elite,

I've always thought it amusing how among the famouse those most adamantly anti gun always make sure their bodyguards are visibly packing. 
Improbus a nullo flectitur obsequio.

Manedwolf

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Re: ABA Responds to DC's 2nd Amend Ruling
« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2007, 08:54:46 AM »
Civil rights, like guns, are only for the Elite,

I've always thought it amusing how among the famouse those most adamantly anti gun always make sure their bodyguards are visibly packing. 

Rosie O'Donnell and Boss Daley being prime examples.

crt360

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Re: ABA Responds to DC's 2nd Amend Ruling
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2007, 11:26:10 AM »
I used to get solicitations to join.  I would write back explaining why I would never join them.  The mailing have stopped, I think they consider me a lost cause. grin

I was a member for a few years.  Like SteveS, I wasn't too excited about the organization once I learned of it's less than favorable position on guns.  I quit paying my dues.  They bugged me to come back and even gave me an extra free year.  Now, I hardly ever hear from them.  Funny thing is, I know a lot of lawyers that are gun people and very few that are ABA members.  While it's become a bit more of a golf/barbecue event lately due to some legal issues, our big annual bar festivity was a dove hunt for many years.
For entertainment purposes only.

Standing Wolf

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Re: ABA Responds to DC's 2nd Amend Ruling
« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2007, 12:39:47 PM »
Quote
The ABA is very anti-gun.  About 5 or 6 years ago, they were encouraging municipalities to sue gun companies because legislatures weren't doing enough to stop "gun violence."

More dollars for trial lawyers, a.k.a. "assault lawyers."

They make cockroaches look downright useful.
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The Rabbi

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Re: ABA Responds to DC's 2nd Amend Ruling
« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2007, 12:48:08 PM »
If Fred Thompson really wants to whip up support he will come out for serious tort reform.  Being a lawyer himself (not just playing one on TV btw) that would be a statement and would highlight the support Tort-Boy gets from his butt-buddy cronies at the bar.
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Monkeyleg

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Re: ABA Responds to DC's 2nd Amend Ruling
« Reply #17 on: March 19, 2007, 01:47:11 PM »
The ABA's position on the 2nd always intrigues me. The once-largest Class III dealer in Milwaukee once told me that he had more attorneys as customers than any other occupation.