Author Topic: Good scientific article about Global Warming from Newsweek  (Read 1904 times)

Desertdog

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Good scientific article about Global Warming from Newsweek
« on: April 08, 2007, 08:38:38 PM »
you can vote on the question "Is there now permanent momentum behind the battle to fight global warming? " by going to the web page.

Why So Gloomy?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17997788/site/newsweek/

 
By Richard S. Lindzen
Newsweek International
April 16, 2007 issue - Judging from the media in recent months, the debate over global warming is now over. There has been a net warming of the earth over the last century and a half, and our greenhouse gas emissions are contributing at some level. Both of these statements are almost certainly true. What of it? Recently many people have said that the earth is facing a crisis requiring urgent action. This statement has nothing to do with science. There is no compelling evidence that the warming trend we've seen will amount to anything close to catastrophe. What most commentatorsand many scientistsseem to miss is that the only thing we can say with certainly about climate is that it changes. The earth is always warming or cooling by as much as a few tenths of a degree a year; periods of constant average temperatures are rare. Looking back on the earth's climate history, it's apparent that there's no such thing as an optimal temperaturea climate at which everything is just right. The current alarm rests on the false assumption not only that we live in a perfect world, temperaturewise, but also that our warming forecasts for the year 2040 are somehow more reliable than the weatherman's forecast for next week.

A warmer climate could prove to be more beneficial than the one we have now. Much of the alarm over climate change is based on ignorance of what is normal for weather and climate. There is no evidence, for instance, that extreme weather events are increasing in any systematic way, according to scientists at the U.S. National Hurricane Center, the World Meteorological Organization and the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (which released the second part of this year's report earlier this month). Indeed, meteorological theory holds that, outside the tropics, weather in a warming world should be less variable, which might be a good thing.

In many other respects, the ill effects of warming are overblown. Sea levels, for example, have been increasing since the end of the last ice age. When you look at recent centuries in perspective, ignoring short-term fluctuations, the rate of sea-level rise has been relatively uniform (less than a couple of millimeters a year). There's even some evidence that the rate was higher in the first half of the twentieth century than in the second half. Overall, the risk of sea-level rise from global warming is less at almost any given location than that from other causes, such as tectonic motions of the earth's surface.

Many of the most alarming studies rely on long-range predictions using inherently untrustworthy climate models, similar to those that cannot accurately forecast the weather a week from now. Interpretations of these studies rarely consider that the impact of carbon on temperature goes downnot upthe more carbon accumulates in the atmosphere. Even if emissions were the sole cause of the recent temperature risea dubious propositionfuture increases wouldn't be as steep as the climb in emissions.

Indeed, one overlooked mystery is why temperatures are not already higher. Various models predict that a doubling of CO2 in the atmosphere will raise the world's average temperature by as little as 1.5 degrees Celsius or as much as 4.5 degrees. The important thing about doubled CO2 (or any other greenhouse gas) is its "forcing"its contribution to warming. At present, the greenhouse forcing is already about three-quarters of what one would get from a doubling of CO2. But average temperatures rose only about 0.6 degrees since the beginning of the industrial era, and the change hasn't been uniformwarming has largely occurred during the periods from 1919 to 1940 and from 1976 to 1998, with cooling in between. Researchers have been unable to explain this discrepancy.

Modelers claim to have simulated the warming and cooling that occurred before 1976 by choosing among various guesses as to what effect poorly observed volcanoes and unmeasured output from the sun have had. These factors, they claim, don't explain the warming of about 0.4 degrees C between 1976 and 1998. Climate modelers assume the cause must be greenhouse-gas emissions because they have no other explanation. This is a poor substitute for evidence, and simulation hardly constitutes explanation. Ten years ago climate modelers also couldn't account for the warming that occurred from about 1050 to 1300. They tried to expunge the medieval warm period from the observational recordan effort that is now generally discredited. The models have also severely underestimated short-term variability El Niño and the Intraseasonal Oscillation. Such phenomena illustrate the ability of the complex and turbulent climate system to vary significantly with no external cause whatever, and to do so over many years, even centuries.

Is there any point in pretending that CO2 increases will be catastrophic? Or could they be modest and on balance beneficial? India has warmed during the second half of the 20th century, and agricultural output has increased greatly. Infectious diseases like malaria are a matter not so much of temperature as poverty and public-health policies (like eliminating DDT). Exposure to cold is generally found to be both more dangerous and less comfortable.

Moreover, actions taken thus far to reduce emissions have already had negative consequences without improving our ability to adapt to climate change. An emphasis on ethanol, for instance, has led to angry protests against corn-price increases in Mexico, and forest clearing and habitat destruction in Southeast Asia. Carbon caps are likely to lead to increased prices, as well as corruption associated with permit trading. (Enron was a leading lobbyist for Kyoto because it had hoped to capitalize on emissions trading.) The alleged solutions have more potential for catastrophe than the putative problem. The conclusion of the late climate scientist Roger RevelleAl Gore's supposed mentoris worth pondering: the evidence for global warming thus far doesn't warrant any action unless it is justifiable on grounds that have nothing to do with climate.

Lindzen is the Alfred P. Sloan Professor of Meteorology at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. His research has always been funded exclusively by the U.S. government. He receives no funding from any energy companies.

Manedwolf

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Re: Good scientific article about Global Warming from Newsweek
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2007, 09:22:46 PM »
Quote
An emphasis on ethanol, for instance, has led to angry protests against corn-price increases in Mexico, and forest clearing and habitat destruction in Southeast Asia.

Ethanol is actually worse for the environment, not only in emissions but in the drive to clear land for more corn. It's also just one massive subsidy corruption scheme.

If they were talking about reducing carbon by building more nuclear plants, it'd be one thing (and a good thing!), but ethanol is one big scam.

Oh, yeah, and going over a certain percentage of ethanol would drastically shorten the life of existing engines, as well. You'd have to buy a new car sooner.

Lots of money pushing the ethanol buttons. Lots.

HankB

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Re: Good scientific article about Global Warming from Newsweek
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2007, 03:49:12 AM »
Ethanol is actually worse for the environment, not only in emissions but in the drive to clear land for more corn. It's also just one massive subsidy corruption scheme.
Some years back, I lived in the People's Republic of Minnesota . . . at the time they passed a law that required ethanol be added to gasoline every winter " . . . to reduce emissions."

Well, after comparing notes on fuel economy, I and several of my colleagues at work discovered that the fuel economy penalty averaged over 10%, rather than the 3% that was touted . . . and this in a variety of vehicles.

We also found that the politicians who'd pushed the ethanol legislation had also received some hefty campaign contributions from Archer-Daniels-Midland, at the time (and perhaps still today) the largest producer of fuel ethanol.

Duh.
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Manedwolf

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Re: Good scientific article about Global Warming from Newsweek
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2007, 04:03:20 AM »
Ethanol is actually worse for the environment, not only in emissions but in the drive to clear land for more corn. It's also just one massive subsidy corruption scheme.
Some years back, I lived in the People's Republic of Minnesota . . . at the time they passed a law that required ethanol be added to gasoline every winter " . . . to reduce emissions."

Well, after comparing notes on fuel economy, I and several of my colleagues at work discovered that the fuel economy penalty averaged over 10%, rather than the 3% that was touted . . . and this in a variety of vehicles.

We also found that the politicians who'd pushed the ethanol legislation had also received some hefty campaign contributions from Archer-Daniels-Midland, at the time (and perhaps still today) the largest producer of fuel ethanol.

Duh.

Yes, my Accord, all tuned and with a ram-air intake to let it have more air, which increased gas mileage, used to average 30mpg highway. Then the state switched from MTBE (methyl tertiary-butyl ether) to 10% Ethanol in the past year, the ban on MTBE being in effect this year. Mileage is less.

I've also been using RedLine fuel system cleaner (good stuff) more to prevent the increased carbon deposits caused by ethanol, and that's seemed to increase the mileage a bit when in, possibly due to the naphthalene and other solvents causing a hotter burn as the MTBE used to? I don't know.

I'm not happy.

mtnbkr

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Re: Good scientific article about Global Warming from Newsweek
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2007, 04:15:06 AM »
I've noticed the drop in economy and so has my wife, who NEVER pays attention to these things.  My 2003 Camry  went from about 26mpg around town to 24ish.  My wife's 1997 4Runner (was mine, but she took it from me <sob> ) went from the 16-17mpg to 14ish.  This sort of thing gets painful when gas is pushing $3/gal.

Chris


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Re: Good scientific article about Global Warming from Newsweek
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2007, 04:17:47 AM »
The only reason the politicians are hollering about ethanol is because it nets them big bucks, as HankB pointed out.

The main problem with energy in this country? Politics. The scumbags interfer with energy, along with everything else. Restricting nuclear plants and refineries is of course going to make energy prices rise.

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Re: Good scientific article about Global Warming from Newsweek
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2007, 05:46:18 AM »
The latest data on the effects of 10% ethanol on fuel economy is that it degrades fuel efficiency by 8%.

It also now costs more than gasoline, even when subsidized.

Great deal, huh?

Also, my Nissan 1997 PU started leaking just a tiny bit at the head gasket after the switch from MTBE to ethanol.  It has gradually gotten worse, though is still relatively minor.  BTW, one of the documented side effects of ethanol is deteriorated gaskets on older vehicles.

And, now, some mouth-breather in congress wants to mandate 35% ehtnaol.
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Manedwolf

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Re: Good scientific article about Global Warming from Newsweek
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2007, 06:16:09 AM »
The latest data on the effects of 10% ethanol on fuel economy is that it degrades fuel efficiency by 8%.

It also now costs more than gasoline, even when subsidized.

Great deal, huh?

Also, my Nissan 1997 PU started leaking just a tiny bit at the head gasket after the switch from MTBE to ethanol.  It has gradually gotten worse, though is still relatively minor.  BTW, one of the documented side effects of ethanol is deteriorated gaskets on older vehicles.

And, now, some mouth-breather in congress wants to mandate 35% ehtnaol.

Ethanol eats engine seals, pure and simple. You can have many import 4 and 6 cyls rebuilt for ethanol, even pure ethanol, but it takes a complete teardown and rebuild with all new valve seals, head gasket, etc. Very, very expensive.

35% ethanol would utterly destroy most engines within a couple of years, if not sooner. They'd develop leaks of everything from oil to unburned hydrocarbons, furthering pollution, and making people replace their cars, adding to junkyards as well...and reducing spending power for the consumers.

If that comes up for vote, I would suggest that every single tuner and muscle-car and classic car aficionado, and any other driver who wants to join in, drive their cars to D.C. and park around the capitol in a massive, revving Song of Engines or such.

Because many, many cars, just about all classics, could never run on 35% ethanol. At least as far as I know. I shudder to think what that'd do to a big old 70's big-block V8.

Gewehr98

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Re: Good scientific article about Global Warming from Newsweek
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2007, 06:22:46 AM »
I'll burn all the E-85 Ethanol you guys don't want.  It's home-grown, 40 cents cheaper/gallon than unleaded gasoline, the farmers here in Wisconsin are using PIK fields (go look up PIK to learn about that program) to grow it, and my dual-fuel S-10 loves the stuff.  Yes, when you run 105 octane E-85 you lose some range, but miles/dollar I'm still quite happy with the fuel, and it sends a message to those importing oil from Jihadistan. Sorry if it's not working well for folks outside Wisconsin. We've got several more distilleries being built right now, and corn may in fact not be the preferred feedstock, switchgrass, sawgrass, and other cellulose source being part of the plan (Happy day in Mexico, their tortillas will be safe!). I wonder if Brazil had such problems with naysayers when switching their automotive fuel source over to E-85 and E-100? 

Re - old cars:

Quote
Because many, many cars, just about all classics, could never run on 35% ethanol. At least as far as I know. I shudder to think what that'd do to a big old 70's big-block V8.


Would those be the same vehicles that need new valve seats and associated parts due to the conversion from leaded gasoline to unleaded?  Would those engines be the same ones that could run on Edelbrock's new E-85 4-barrel carburetor?

http://www.edelbrock.com/media/news/2006/automotive/103106_04.html

(Looking at one for my '53 Chevy PU project so it can enjoy the benefits)

We return you to your regular diatribe now, good luck with that nuclear powered car idea (Mr. Fusion?)...
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Desertdog

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Re: Good scientific article about Global Warming from Newsweek
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2007, 07:20:24 AM »
It is my understanding that the corn used to produce ethanol is not destroyed, but makes a better animal feed.  If it improves the corn for animal feed; why wouldn't it improve it for other uses?

mtnbkr

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Re: Good scientific article about Global Warming from Newsweek
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2007, 07:38:20 AM »
Gewehr, the problem is that we're in that uncomfortable middle period where there aren't enough cars and pumps out there to justify a mass conversion (of consumers), but enough older cars to cause problems.

Per my own selfish wants, I'm seeing fewer miles per gallon and gas prices going up.  So far, I haven't seen any E85 pumps yet, nor do I have the funds to replace both my vehicles to take full advantage of them if they existed.  If that's whining, then I'll have to whine some more.  Rather than force ethanol down our throats, let's phase it in a bit more slowly so folks can have time to get the appropriate hardware.

Chris

Gewehr98

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Re: Good scientific article about Global Warming from Newsweek
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2007, 08:01:45 AM »
I don't see a mass conversion happening either. There's not enough pressure, and not enough interest. I do see Detroit ramping up production of dual-fuel vehicles again, like they did in the late 90s. They'll get CAFE credits for such vehicles, which allows them to continue with Hummers and Suburbans.

Only when the American consumer votes with their pocketbook is something large-scale going to happen. Gas is bumping against $4.00/gallon in SoCal, with the statewide average being $3.22/gallon. That's still in the comfort zone for the average consumer.  Maybe when it gets to the price of fuel in Europe, then we'll see something shake loose. 

We may be seeing a small ripple effect from it now, Ford quit making the Excursion (but stretched the Expedition to fill that market niche)

For those of us old enough to remember the Arab Oil Embargo of '73, it's deja-vu all over again.   Wink

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Manedwolf

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Re: Good scientific article about Global Warming from Newsweek
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2007, 08:27:16 AM »
I find it a bit ironic that none of the "green" agenda sorts have undertaken any sort of efforts to reduce automobile waste by recommending or providing resources for conversion of existing vehicles.

They'll go out and hype hybrids, which contribute a LOT of waste with their batteries, but they never do anything to keep existing cars on the road for longer. The fact is, a good lot of the cars on the road now are incredibly long-term durable, especially the upscale sedans and coupes. They're also highly modular, and an engine swap isn't that much of a big deal for many. I know with my own Accord, people have swapped out the F-series engine for an older, larger-displacement H-series or a brand-new K-series with just a new set of motor mounts and some cable connectors, and some replacement chips in the computer.

If they really wanted to be "green" and push alternative fuels at the same time, I'd think they'd go for a campaign of "Keep your car. Change your engine", and promote swaps to alternative-fuel-optimized powerplants, giving credit for the old engine, which in most cases can be torn down and converted as well.

It'd keep a lot of cars out of junkyards, for sure.

 

Gewehr98

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Re: Good scientific article about Global Warming from Newsweek
« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2007, 10:16:44 AM »
I don't like hybrids, and won't until they come up with a diesel-electric or gas-electric that operates like a locomotive. (constant-RPM diesel engine driving a generator, which then drives electric traction motors, batteries optional)

To date, I'm not having a lot of trouble converting my '53 Chevy 3/4 ton pickup to E85.  I use stainless fuel lines, an E85 compatible electric fuel pump, and will either re-jet or buy an E85 carburetor.

I don't think such a conversion will be within the budget of an owner of a current, electronic multi-port fuel injected car.  Too much hassle vs. keeping the gas-only configuration well-maintained and tuned to save what gasoline it does use. GM nitrided the crankcase internals of their dual-fuel engines, because E85 will acidify the oil.

My mom looked into converting her 2006 Mercury Mariner.  It wasn't cheap, nor easy.  So she'll just keep it nice until she trades it for a dual-fuel 2008 Mariner.



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Manedwolf

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Re: Good scientific article about Global Warming from Newsweek
« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2007, 10:24:54 AM »
I don't like hybrids, and won't until they come up with a diesel-electric or gas-electric that operates like a locomotive. (constant-RPM diesel engine driving a generator, which then drives electric traction motors, batteries optional)

To date, I'm not having a lot of trouble converting my '53 Chevy 3/4 ton pickup to E85.  I use stainless fuel lines, an E85 compatible electric fuel pump, and will either re-jet or buy an E85 carburetor.

I don't think such a conversion will be within the budget of an owner of a current, electronic multi-port fuel injected car.  Too much hassle vs. keeping the gas-only configuration well-maintained and tuned to save what gasoline it does use. GM nitrided the crankcase internals of their dual-fuel engines, because E85 will acidify the oil.

My mom looked into converting her 2006 Mercury Mariner.  It wasn't cheap, nor easy.  So she'll just keep it nice until she trades it for a dual-fuel 2008 Mariner.

Maybe I ought to have specified Japanese-engineered fuel-injected cars as being easy to swap. I know Hondas are extremely easy to swap, and I believe Toyotas are as well. It can be literally done in an afternoon for a Honda Accord or Civic...all you need is an engine hoist, the right hybridization mount kit, and possibly some cable extensions or adapters, it's all easy modular locking connectors, no welding, no splicing. Companies even make black box in-betweens for the new engine swaps. If it was a one-for-one swap of the same type of engine simply rebuilt for ethanol with new valve seals and possibly differently timed cams, it'd be even easier, just drop and bolt. For newer engines, the fact that people are every day swapping 2005-2006 Honda K20 2.4l coil-on-plug i-VTEC blocks into 1998-2002 vehicles that came with a 2.3l VTEC would suggest that it's not a difficult proposition. (They do this because the K20 can put out 240 BHP, not bad for a 4-cyl.)

No idea about the American makers. I know they sometimes have a bad habit of changing EVERYTHING between models and years, whereas there's a lot of modular and standardized connectors in parts in some other makers' stuff.

HankB

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Re: Good scientific article about Global Warming from Newsweek
« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2007, 11:44:05 AM »
. . . For those of us old enough to remember the Arab Oil Embargo of '73, it's deja-vu all over again.   Wink 
I remember - I  was in high school then, and hadn't had a driver's licence for long. (Uh-oh, I just dated myself . . .  sad)

There was a guy in a couple of my classes whose father who was some kind of executive for, IIRC, Shell. I don't remember all the details, but as I recall he told me that one of his dad's biggest headaches on the job was finding a place to store all the oil they were keeping back from the market until prices went up.  shocked

Yeah, yeah, I know this flirts with the "urban legend" type of story about Demon Oil, but this is as close to a first-hand account as I've ever encountered in this type of thing, so I consider it to be rather credible. (At least, it's more credible than stories about the 100 mpg carburetor patent that was purchased & suppressed by Standard Oil over 50 years ago.)
Trump won in 2016. Democrats haven't been so offended since Republicans came along and freed their slaves.
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Ben

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Re: Good scientific article about Global Warming from Newsweek
« Reply #16 on: April 09, 2007, 03:49:31 PM »
I think ethanol is going to get very interesting from an economics-political point of view. They're building an ethanol plant about 10 miles from where my folks live and almost everybody who's not growing trees is switching their crops to corn. It's almost a gold rush boomtown mentality.
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Creeping Incrementalism

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Re: Good scientific article about Global Warming from Newsweek
« Reply #17 on: April 23, 2007, 09:37:17 AM »
I'll burn all the E-85 Ethanol you guys don't want.  It's home-grown, 40 cents cheaper/gallon than unleaded gasoline, the farmers here in Wisconsin are using PIK fields (go look up PIK to learn about that program) to grow it, and my dual-fuel S-10 loves the stuff.  Yes, when you run 105 octane E-85 you lose some range, but miles/dollar I'm still quite happy with the fuel

According to something I found on Wikipedia, the loss in mileage by volume is 25%, and the cheaper price is only about half that. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-85#Estimating_fuel_injector.2C_carburetor_and_fuel_pump_requirements and scroll up a few lines)  So miles/dollar, I think you are losing out.  When you factor in the gas taxes and ethanol subsidies, the true cost of ethanol becomes even greater.  Then there's the cost of converting engines to take E-85.  Furthermore, ethanol contributes to greater smog (http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa003&articleID=07520EDF-E7F2-99DF-3F39F759D467DFCD&ref=rss.  With China and India rapidly indsutrializing and the resulting increase in oil demanded I don't think the Jihadis will be short of cash.  A strong and steady increase in the price of oil, which we are now experiencing, leads to previously uneconomical sources of oil becoming available, which should gradually reduce the price at the pump within a year or two.  In my opinion, greenhouse gas emissions are completely overblown, so I don't think that advantage is worth anything.  Then there is the increase in the price of corn, unless somehow the leftover mash is still usable for animal feed.

The more I look at alternative fuels, the better oil looks.

Gewehr98

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Re: Good scientific article about Global Warming from Newsweek
« Reply #18 on: April 23, 2007, 10:42:17 AM »
Why are people hung up on this "converting engines" thing?  There won't really be any engine conversions, unless you're in tight with a mechanic or are good at doing the work yourself.  Ethanol is bad news for elastomeric fuel lines and injection systems not designed for it. Run those gasoline engines with gasoline or E-10 (perfectly safe), then when the engine or car wears out, make your decision if it appeals to you.

E-10 is more prevalent than folks are aware, because all gasoline powered vehicles can run on it.  You have to look hard at the gas pump labels to see whether you're running 100% gasoline or an E-10 blend.

 The hardcore E-85 fuel is intended for the vehicles that were already produced to use it (aka, my GSA-contract pickup), and those new vehicles that Detroit sees fit to produce now that ethanol's popularity is on the cyclical upswing again. They are a mere fraction of the total vehicles found on the roads, and ethanol is a fraction of the total liquid energy consumption by American consumers (ethanol blends currently count for about 30% of domestic motor fuel consumption).  I'm paying 40 cents/gallon less for the stuff than regular unleaded, and enjoy the extra performance my 2.2L engine gains on the 105 octane. I can't wait to finish my '53 Chevy project, with the Edelbrock E-85 4-barrel carb.  I'm thinking about having one of those rear-window Calvin graphics done up, where he's flipping off Jihadistan over an E-85 graphic.  grin 

As a farmboy, I thought it was absolutely hilarious to see farmers paid to NOT plant crops on their land, under the Federal PIK program.  Today, those PIK fields are planted in corn again, and the farmer who was previously sweating out getting foreclosed on is temporarily enjoying $3.63 (today's quote) per bushel. I say temporarily because I believe corn won't remain as the long-term ethanol feedstock. Nor is ethanol a Wisconsin thing:

http://www.iowacorn.org/ethanol/ethanol_3a.html

You vote with your pocketbook, bottom line.  When folks start feeling the pinch of $4.00 or higher gasoline, watch how much interest there will be in alternative fuels.  In the meantime, we can certainly continue to use 25% of the world's oil while sitting on 3% of the reserves - but for how long?  shocked
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MechAg94

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Re: Good scientific article about Global Warming from Newsweek
« Reply #19 on: April 23, 2007, 05:15:01 PM »
. . . For those of us old enough to remember the Arab Oil Embargo of '73, it's deja-vu all over again.   Wink 
I remember - I  was in high school then, and hadn't had a driver's licence for long. (Uh-oh, I just dated myself . . .  sad)

There was a guy in a couple of my classes whose father who was some kind of executive for, IIRC, Shell. I don't remember all the details, but as I recall he told me that one of his dad's biggest headaches on the job was finding a place to store all the oil they were keeping back from the market until prices went up.  shocked

Yeah, yeah, I know this flirts with the "urban legend" type of story about Demon Oil, but this is as close to a first-hand account as I've ever encountered in this type of thing, so I consider it to be rather credible. (At least, it's more credible than stories about the 100 mpg carburetor patent that was purchased & suppressed by Standard Oil over 50 years ago.)
That wouldn't surprise me at all.  But not because of the embargo, but due to the price fixing the govt did.
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