Author Topic: I just like saying polygamous lesbians  (Read 4539 times)

AmbulanceDriver

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Re: I just like saying polygamous lesbians
« Reply #25 on: April 29, 2007, 05:42:54 AM »
I have to take a bit of umbrage with what some of you seem to be saying.  To equate what a few nutjobs do with the vast majority of a religion is fundamentally unsound.  This applies whether you are dealing with Muslim, Christian, Buddhist, or any other religion.

The majority of Christian teachings (especially in the US) strive to take a New Testament approach, following Christ's teachings of "Love the Lord with all your heart, mind, and strenght; and love your neighbor as yourself".  I can't speak to any other religion's teachings, but that is what is being taught in mainstream Christian churches, to the best of my knowledge.  This follows a "Love the sinner, hate the sin" approach in that we seek to love people, and hate sin.  I know this is what my church teaches during mission trips that I have been on to Brazil, and what was taught on missions trips to Mexico.  Are there idiots out there who kill people "in the name of God"?  Yes, there are.  And they DO NOT represent me or the vast majority of Christians.

I cannot tell you the percentage of Muslims who wish to enforce Sharia law.  Or who wish to "Kill the infidel".   But I suspect that it is a considerably larger percentage (again, not blaming them all, just the ones that are doing it) than the Christians that are trying to kill in the name of God...
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Iain

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Re: I just like saying polygamous lesbians
« Reply #26 on: April 29, 2007, 07:23:09 AM »
Mind explaining what crack you are smoking that equates modern Christians to homosexual killing machines?

It's an awful lot easier to argue against what you think people are saying isn't it?

Gewehr - modern western christianity is a different beast from the christianity of a lot of non-western countries. The Anglican (Episcopalian) church seems to be in throes of a huge schism on the subject of homosexual ordination that can roughly be divided between Africa and the US/UK. Note that I don't make any claims that the African Anglican church actually wants to stone homosexuals, but perspectives on the issue are very different.

All SS seems to be saying is that it would be a mistake to assume that the relatively tolerant attitudes of Christians in your country and mine are those of the christian population in general, even of the majority.
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CAnnoneer

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Re: I just like saying polygamous lesbians
« Reply #27 on: April 29, 2007, 07:34:34 AM »
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All SS seems to be saying is that it would be a mistake to assume that the relatively tolerant attitudes of Christians in your country and mine are those of the christian population in general, even of the majority.

Iain, it does not matter how people feel on a subject as much as it matters how their society and culture act on it. Therefore, worrying about homophobic feelings is not as important as worrying about homophobic actions. Therefore, a situation under which a homosexual is privately disliked or precluded from ordination can hardly be equated to a situation when the same homosexual is arrested, tortured, mutilated, and/or murdered by law and the power of the state. The demonstrated inability for quantitative comparison is breathtaking.


Gewehr98

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Re: I just like saying polygamous lesbians
« Reply #28 on: April 29, 2007, 09:02:41 AM »
Iain,

I'm Wisconsin Synod Lutheran.  That's the Old Country branch of Brand X. While it's 2007, we're still not *that* tolerant.  No female pastors, no school dances, about as close to Catholic as you can get while still being Protestant.  Nor are we very liberal when it comes to homosexuality.  But I seriously doubt you'll find many Wisconsin Synod Lutherans looking to actively persecute gays and lesbians.  I'm not as good a Lutheran as I should be (Graduated seminary, but went to the Air Force after my vicar year vs. taking a call for a congregation), and while I find homosexuality to be an abomination in the eyes of the Lord, I've got better things to do than making their lives miserable.  We're too busy with the Sunday after-service coffee and cookies thing...



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CAnnoneer

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Re: I just like saying polygamous lesbians
« Reply #29 on: April 29, 2007, 10:38:58 AM »
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We're too busy with the Sunday after-service coffee and cookies thing...

Well, I for one am APPALLED! It is so very obvious that your so-called "coffee and cookies" are just as bad as extremety-lopping sharya-enforcers! Shame on you! <huff cookie>

Gewehr98

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Re: I just like saying polygamous lesbians
« Reply #30 on: April 29, 2007, 11:00:56 AM »
Yeah, that whole after-service fellowship thing is a cross we bear. I'm somewhat remorseful, the cookies should really go to Sally Struthers so she can maintain her habit.  grin

(Can't wait for PETA or some other pantywaist group to tell us we're fattening our kids every Sunday and slaughtering innocent animals in the making of the cookies...)
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slzy

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Re: I just like saying polygamous lesbians
« Reply #31 on: April 30, 2007, 04:58:52 AM »
i with onions! on this. this thread is useless without "bedtime for poly whatever lesbians".

Gewehr98

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Re: I just like saying polygamous lesbians
« Reply #32 on: April 30, 2007, 07:51:33 AM »
Slzy, you wanna be part of the lesbian sammich, don't ya?   

Right up there with the Princess Leia gold bikini fantasy.  grin
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Perd Hapley

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Re: I just like saying polygamous lesbians
« Reply #33 on: April 30, 2007, 09:21:02 PM »
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Strongly Christian nations are not any more safe for homosexuals than Muslim nations.  The only places in the world where you find advancement on rights of homosexuals are in Western European nations with strong currents of secularism and atheism.

I think you might be forgetting the United States and Canada.  You also seem to presume that, unless Christianity is somehow checked by secular govt., we Christians will start stoning homosexuals.  This is not the case.  In fact, it is my Christianity that restrains me from even using words like "*Not nice word for gay men*," much less stoning anyone for sexual immorality.  Other Christians might have a different attitude toward sex and public policy, but the point is that Christianity itself does not demand criminal punishments for sexual perversion, no matter how many Old Testament passages you dig up. 

And what motivates heterosexist violence in Mexico?  Is it Christianity, or is it macho culture?  Or is this intolerance yet another pagan influence smuggled into Central American Christianity, along with other odd survivals of native lore?  And who's dong the persecuting?  Is it the Catholics, the Protestants, the up-start charismatic groups?  Or maybe you have asked these questions?  Are you trying to point out that not everything done in a culture can be blamed on the dominant religion in that culture? 
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De Selby

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Re: I just like saying polygamous lesbians
« Reply #34 on: April 30, 2007, 10:04:37 PM »
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I think you might be forgetting the United States and Canada

My point was that these were examples of countries where the rule is that Christian religious arguments do not form law and policy for the most part, like the UK and Europe (though it's to a greater extent there.)  Couple that with the fact that a minority of the world's Christians live in these states, and it becomes apparent why it's unfair to allow the US and Canada to be exemplars of Christianity but only backwards African states to be exemplars of Islam.

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but the point is that Christianity itself does not demand criminal punishments for sexual perversion, no matter how many Old Testament passages you dig up. 

Funny, so Christianity is what you say it is no matter what its religious texts say?  I find it strange that it's so easy to dismiss the persecution of homosexuals, jews, and heretical Christian that literally no Christian government ever, in any period noticed were prohibited by the Bible.  It's simply preposterous to claim that Christianity cannot support these things when the vast majority of Christian societies have had exactly these rules, and considered them to be the rules required by the Faith.

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And what motivates heterosexist violence in Mexico?  Is it Christianity, or is it macho culture?  Or is this intolerance yet another pagan influence smuggled into Central American Christianity, along with other odd survivals of native lore?  And who's dong the persecuting?  Is it the Catholics, the Protestants, the up-start charismatic groups?  Or maybe you have asked these questions?  Are you trying to point out that not everything done in a culture can be blamed on the dominant religion in that culture?

Pagan influence?  Macho culture? Why can't these be the explanations for any problems with Islam as well?

Almost all Mexicans are Catholic, so yeah, mostly Catholics.  And of course, Catholicism is by far the largest Christian sect...so good luck writing that all off as "not representative of real Christianity."

I am trying to point out that blaming everything done in a culture on that culture's religion is absurd.  Which is why I took issue with the OP, and why I point out that Christianity has a long, proven track record of religiously inspired violence against gay people that continues to this day.  It doesn't mean you personally have to believe it, or that Gewehr or anyone else in America is bad for being Christian...but it does mean you have to take a second look at your condemnations of Islam when Muslims do these things.

If we apply the same standards you're applying to the Muslims in the OP, then we'd have to conclude that Christianity, based on its long history of Christian laws requiring that gays be executed, and the continuing violence against gays in many Christian nations, is the same as Islam on this point.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: I just like saying polygamous lesbians
« Reply #35 on: May 01, 2007, 06:37:56 AM »
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Pagan influence?  Macho culture? Why can't these be the explanations for any problems with Islam as well?
I think it could explain some problems in the Islamic world, yes.  I thought that was your point. 

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...it does mean you have to take a second look at your condemnations of Islam when Muslims do these things....If we apply the same standards you're applying to the Muslims in the OP...

Hold on a moment, I didn't apply any standards to Muslims in the OP.  Shucks, I've been gone for the past three days.  And if you were to actually mine through my old posts, you'd find that I do not condemn Islam as a whole.  And I won't until I think I've learned enough to make such a judgment.  I've seen too many ignorant people go off half-cocked about my own religion to make that mistake about Islam.

If your point was that religions can't always be judged by what people do with them, then I agree with you.  If you're trying to say that it's unfair to blame Islam or Christianity for everything done in the Muslim or Christian worlds, I also agree.  But at this point, I can't tell if your simple-minded condemnations of Christianity are serious, or if you are just trying to make a point. 

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but the point is that Christianity itself does not demand criminal punishments for sexual perversion, no matter how many Old Testament passages you dig up.
Funny, so Christianity is what you say it is no matter what its religious texts say?  I find it strange that it's so easy to dismiss the persecution of homosexuals, jews, and heretical Christian that literally no Christian government ever, in any period noticed were prohibited by the Bible.  It's simply preposterous to claim that Christianity cannot support these things when the vast majority of Christian societies have had exactly these rules, and considered them to be the rules required by the Faith.

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And of course, Catholicism is by far the largest Christian sect...so good luck writing that all off as "not representative of real Christianity."

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