Some gun things

[MechAg94]

The first part of that video is getting close to Weaponized Fuddlore^tm.  There are people in the world that can grab a gun that is pointed at them and get out of the way before they get shot, but those folks are well trained and practice, and still it's not great odds.

Obviously, most of the criminals pointing guns at people are also untrained, and if you gotta give it a go, you gotta play the hand dealt you.  People get lucky every day.

There are plenty of examples of people drawing on an armed criminal and coming out on top.  Either they wait for a distraction or some have just drawn and took their chances. 

The movies like to make it seem like many criminals are expert gun handlers and just shoot dead anyone that goes against them.  IMO, that is rare.  Competent people are mostly likely good enough to get a better paying occupation rather than petty crime. 

[dogmush]

Okey Dokey. Have fun.

In addition to Krav Maga (And BJJ I think) those kind of disarms are taught in US Army Combatives and Marine Corps Combatives.  When I went to level 2 we did about half a day of force on force disarms with simunitions.  We all did get some solid disarms in there, but we all had some pretty solid bruising as well.  you get shot pretty frequently while fighting for a gun.

There are plenty of examples of people drawing on an armed criminal and coming out on top.  Either they wait for a distraction or some have just drawn and took their chances. 

The movies like to make it seem like many criminals are expert gun handlers and just shoot dead anyone that goes against them.  IMO, that is rare. Competent people are mostly likely good enough to get a better paying occupation rather than petty crime. 

I agree, and I mentioned that in my post.  I'm not in here saying "Arggh, if you try to wrestle for a gun your a deadman" with my keyboard warrior badge, i'm just saying that it's harder than that video made it look, because the masked extra was not trying to pull a trigger and let the gun go.

FWIW, and worth what you paid, I had way better luck in force on force training blocking the enemy's gun away from me while drawing and mag dumping my own weapon, than actually going for a disarm.  ANother spot where Lefty's like Ben and I are superior.  You can block up or out with your dominant punching hand, and draw and fire with your dominant shooting hand. 

[dogmush]

For clarity, and because I'm not trying to get all up in an internet argument, I called the first half of that video Weaponized Fuddlore, because it was set up to make it seem like "look how easy and fast these disarms are" and then demonstrated them slow, against an unresisting and non aggressing assailant.  He's like 35% of the way to a DUST video in the first half of that.

Not saying disarms can't work, just that they don't usually like that.  I might also add that like if you go into a knife fight, you're probably getting cut, even if you win: If you try to disarm a aggressor with a pistol, you are probably getting shot, even if you win.

[Ben]

I might also add that like if you go into a knife fight, you're probably getting cut, even if you win

"There are no winners in a knife fight." Something I once heard, backed up with images. 

[cordex]

For clarity, and because I'm not trying to get all up in an internet argument, I called the first half of that video Weaponized Fuddlore, because it was set up to make it seem like "look how easy and fast these disarms are" and then demonstrated them slow, against an unresisting and non aggressing assailant.  He's like 35% of the way to a DUST video in the first half of that.

I get what you're saying, but not speaking Slovenian I just assumed he was showing why as person might be grabbing the slide of a gun in the first place before showing that grabbing the slide was a way to keep the gun from cycling without necessarily causing the grabber hand injuries, not saying "Look at how easily I use my chi to take down these totally compliant attackers".

A video on how to self-apply a tourniquet isn't Weaponized Fuddlore, even if there are a bunch of scenarios where self-application of a tourniquet would fail and even if most people who watch those videos never actually train to self-apply a tourniquet. 

[230RN]

I note:

In many of that video'a situations the gun (SA only 1911?) wasn't cocked.

The disarming technique for an arm's length one-handed hold seems to be pretty standard.

But an "arm's length one-handed" hold like that is for Camp Perry.

         

That's one reason why I use a laser on all my carry pieces... so I can hold close to my body with one hand and not use the mechanical sights at all.

And "grabbing" might work with an uncocked double action old fashioned revolvolator if you grabbed it by the cylinder.  If the revolvolator were cocked, you're sunk, but who uses old fashioned revolvolators any more, after all?  Do they even make them nowadays?

Eta Ruskia.

Anyhow, thanks for the link, and no negative reflection on you, the messenger.

[dogmush]

That's a Sig P226

[230RN]

Yeah, OK.

[MechAg94]

I note:

In many of that video'a situations the gun (SA only 1911?) wasn't cocked.

The disarming technique for an arm's length one-handed hold seems to be pretty standard.

But an "arm's length one-handed" hold like that is for Camp Perry.

         

That's one reason why I use a laser on all my carry pieces... so I can hold close to my body with one hand and not use the mechanical sights at all.

And "grabbing" might work with an uncocked double action old fashioned revolvolator if you grabbed it by the cylinder.  If the revolvolator were cocked, you're sunk, but who uses old fashioned revolvolators any more, after all?  Do they even make them nowadays?

Eta Ruskia.

Anyhow, thanks for the link, and no negative reflection on you, the messenger.

An argument on the bolded part:  If someone is close enough to grab your gun, you ought to be able to shoot from the hip and hit them without a laser.  I guess everyone can practice that shot and decide for themselves.  A laser would help make a more accurate shot from the hip. 

[MechAg94]

I CAN'T BELIEVE ALL THE HATEFUL COMMENTS OF PEOPLE ATTACKING OTHERS ON THIS THREAD!!!

Oh wait, I am not a hypersensitive internet dweller.  Nevermind.   

[Ben]

An argument on the bolded part:  If someone is close enough to grab your gun, you ought to be able to shoot from the hip and hit them without a laser.

Retention shooting is something I practice every time I train with my CCW. It's actually kinda hard not to hit a torso at arm's length once you have your technique down, IMO.

[230RN]

An argument on the bolded part:  If someone is close enough to grab your gun, you ought to be able to shoot from the hip and hit them without a laser.  I guess everyone can practice that shot and decide for themselves.  A laser would help make a more accurate shot from the hip.

That's one reason why I use a laser on all my carry pieces... so I can hold close to my body with one hand and not use the mechanical sights at all.

Main thing is holding close to decrease disarmament possibility if I'm that close.

The other thing, is if more distance is involved, my eyesight and accuracy with mechanical sights started to decrease with age.

Also and incidentally, holding it tight and close to your body decreases the wobble of laser sighting. (The wobble is the same as with the mechanical sights, but is more obvious and annoying.  I think it's the main reason people don't like using lasers.)

I did a lot of experimenting with that technique.  But you have to lower the targets at the indoor range so you don't shoot "upwards" from the side of your body and hit the ceiling. You also have to give an explanation of what you're going to do and get permission from the RO since "shooting from the hip" is generally not allowed.

I have discussed other techniques to effectively use laser sights.

[HankB]

. . . I imagine with good hands and damned good luck, someone might be able to slip a 1911 slide back enough to engage the disconnector and prevent the gun from firing in the first place . . .

I've heard that's a reason NOT to jam a 1911 muzzle hard into someone.

"There are no winners in a knife fight." Something I once heard, backed up with images. 

I know just enough about knife fighting to know that I never want to be in a knife fight. I'd end up like Leroy Brown. If I was lucky.