Is it time to end birthright citizenship?

[JN01]

The US is entirely country of immigrants except for a  tiny fraction of natives. The Revolution was fought by largely British people, the Pilgrims were from North Englind and Netherlands, Pennsylvania was populated by Scottish and Germans. Texas, Southern California, Florida was populated by Spanish (and literally was spain for a long time after the revolution). Detroit used be called New France. Plenty of Chinese came to build the railroads of course, and big chunk from Africa. So, at what point do you plant the flag in the demographic ground and say it stopped being America, and which ethnicity do you claim to be the "true" American one? Which one of the cultural roots is the right one? Just wondering.

Having ancestors who were immigrants doesn't make me an immigrant.  The Americas were populated by people crossing over the Bering Straight, so by your standard, Native Americans are immigrants also.  Ethnicity has no relevance to being American.  To exist as a nation, the citizens have to share some basic tenets to bind them together, like belief in our constitutional republic and the freedoms and responsibilities associated with it.  Unfortunately, many natural born citizens no longer support that system, but we don't need to exacerbate the situation by flooding the country with outsiders whose actions are even more destructive to national cohesion. 

Cartel and criminal gang members are not good for the country.  Imported murderers and pedophiles are not good for the country.  Foreign Marxists and radical Islamists who want to destroy Western civilization are not good for the country.  Those immigrants who wave the flag of the nation they came from while burning the American flag are not good for the country (and apparently don't see themselves as being subject to the jurisdiction of the US, so their kids shouldn't be citizens either)

The amount illegals receive in the form of welfare is only the tip of the iceberg, you have to figure in health care, schooling, housing, court costs, incarceration costs, etc.  Shut off the faucet for any kind of benefit, crack down on employers utilizing illegal labor denying them a job and most of them will self-deport.   

[dogmush]

The amount illegals receive in the form of welfare is only the tip of the iceberg, you have to figure in health care, schooling, housing, court costs, incarceration costs, etc.  Shut off the faucet for any kind of benefit, crack down on employers utilizing illegal labor denying them a job and most of them will self-deport.

Quoted for the MF-ing truth.  I see these videos of empty build sites and vineyards claiming there's no workers because the illegals are gone.  Those posts should be probable cause for a warrant and a deep audit of the employers and millions of dollars in fines.  I wouldn't cry if those businesses were fined into bankruptcy and the assets sold at auction to an entrepreneur that would like to follow the employment laws. I'd like to see jail time for the people that built their business models on utilizing black market exploited labor.

As an aside there's a whole tiktok genre on inspectors finding *expletive deleted*it work on expensive new construction.  Maybe if we didn't hire illegals that give no shits for the lowest possible wage we could get some decent work.  Just saying.


I live on the east side of Tampa, close to Plant City, FL, which is one of the largest Strawberry producing regions in the country.  10 min drive from my house there are hundreds of acres of strawberry fields, and every year about this time you see thousands of migrants out there picking the berries.  It's so huge for the area that Plant City has an annual Strawberry Festival at harvest time. You know what I saw this year?  Thousands of migrant workers picking strawberries, because the commercial farms hire people on H2A Agriculture visas, pay them according to US employment law, and bus them around to the fields.  Hell the busses they use all have the OSHA and DOL required "Right to Know" posters on the sides of the busses they cart the migrants around in.  Don't tell me it can't be done legally.

[Live Life]

FL ... Thousands of migrant workers picking strawberries, because the commercial farms hire people on H2A Agriculture visas, pay them according to US employment law, and bus them around to the fields.  Hell the busses they use all have the OSHA and DOL required "Right to Know" posters on the sides of the busses they cart the migrants around in.  Don't tell me it can't be done legally.

Same for CA, thousands of migrant workers on work visas recruited/hired in Mexico by the farmers.

If someone in Mexico wants to work in US, there certainly are "legal" means available with active recruitment/hiring done by farmers/farms - https://www.farmers.gov/working-with-us/h2a-visa-program

[Live Life]

Trump administration asks Supreme Court to partly allow birthright citizenship restrictions - https://apnews.com/article/supreme-court-trump-immigration-birthright-citizenship-5f1ebd68996f10a84972108f943476fd

In emergency applications filed at the high court ... administration asked the justices to narrow court orders entered by district judges in Maryland, Massachusetts and Washington that blocked the order President Donald Trump signed shortly after beginning his second term.

The order currently is blocked nationwide. Three federal appeals courts have rejected the administration’s pleas ...

The order would deny citizenship to those born after Feb. 19 whose parents are in the country illegally. It also forbids U.S. agencies from issuing any document or accepting any state document recognizing citizenship for such children ...

Acting Solicitor General Sarah Harris contends ... Trump’s order is constitutional because the 14th amendment’s citizenship clause, properly read, “does not extend citizenship universally to everyone born in the United States.”

https://apnews.com/article/trump-administration-birthright-citizenship-059a5d7a564ee025d5b4b6e4492c6e66

The emergency appeal does not focus directly on whether the presidential order is legally valid. Instead, it is aimed at the broad reach of orders issued by federal judges.

The Justice Department argues individual judges lack the power to make their rulings go into affect nationwide. Five of the Supreme Court’s conservative justices have raised concerns in the past about these nationwide injunctions. The high court, though, has never ruled on the matter.

[Live Life]

Trump administration asks Supreme Court to partly allow birthright citizenship restrictions - https://apnews.com/article/supreme-court-trump-immigration-birthright-citizenship-5f1ebd68996f10a84972108f943476fd

Supreme Court to hear oral arguments in birthright citizenship consolidated cases on May 15 - https://www.foxnews.com/politics/supreme-court-hear-oral-arguments-birthright-citizenship-case

In a perhaps related note ...

Justice Kagan denies emergency appeal to halt deportation of Mexican nationals claiming asylum from cartel - https://www.foxnews.com/politics/justice-kagan-denies-emergency-appeal-halt-deportation-mexican-nationals-claiming-asylum-from-cartel

I am going to make more popcorn ...

[MechAg94]

Quoted for the MF-ing truth.  I see these videos of empty build sites and vineyards claiming there's no workers because the illegals are gone.  Those posts should be probable cause for a warrant and a deep audit of the employers and millions of dollars in fines.  I wouldn't cry if those businesses were fined into bankruptcy and the assets sold at auction to an entrepreneur that would like to follow the employment laws. I'd like to see jail time for the people that built their business models on utilizing black market exploited labor.

As an aside there's a whole tiktok genre on inspectors finding *expletive deleted*it work on expensive new construction.  Maybe if we didn't hire illegals that give no shits for the lowest possible wage we could get some decent work.  Just saying.


I live on the east side of Tampa, close to Plant City, FL, which is one of the largest Strawberry producing regions in the country.  10 min drive from my house there are hundreds of acres of strawberry fields, and every year about this time you see thousands of migrants out there picking the berries.  It's so huge for the area that Plant City has an annual Strawberry Festival at harvest time. You know what I saw this year?  Thousands of migrant workers picking strawberries, because the commercial farms hire people on H2A Agriculture visas, pay them according to US employment law, and bus them around to the fields.  Hell the busses they use all have the OSHA and DOL required "Right to Know" posters on the sides of the busses they cart the migrants around in.  Don't tell me it can't be done legally.

I saw comments on some of those videos pointing out they were out of season and the videos were from well before any immigration changes were made.  Most political crap online is made up propaganda. 

[Hawkmoon]

Quoted for the MF-ing truth.  I see these videos of empty build sites and vineyards claiming there's no workers because the illegals are gone.  Those posts should be probable cause for a warrant and a deep audit of the employers and millions of dollars in fines.  I wouldn't cry if those businesses were fined into bankruptcy and the assets sold at auction to an entrepreneur that would like to follow the employment laws. I'd like to see jail time for the people that built their business models on utilizing black market exploited labor.

As an aside there's a whole tiktok genre on inspectors finding *expletive deleted*it work on expensive new construction.  Maybe if we didn't hire illegals that give no shits for the lowest possible wage we could get some decent work.  Just saying.

Truth.

20 years ago I started working as a building inspector for a small town that had its first large condominium project starting up. The boss was having trouble with the foundation inspections. The formwork was bad, the rebar was too close to the forms, and the workers all claimed they didn't speak English so they couldn't (wouldn't) pay attention to anything he told them.

The boss knew my wife was from South America so he asked if I spoke Spanish. I told him, "Not much," but he took me along on an inspection just to see what would happen. Sure enough, we found most of the rebar was too close to the formwork, which would allow groundwater to reach and attack the steel. And, of course, nobody on the crew admitted to speaking Ingles.

So I dusted off my pidgeon Spanish. "Hey, muchachos. Necesitan mas espacio" (pointing at the space between the rebars and the plywood).

It was comical. I wish I had a video of their faces. You could see it in their eyes: "Oh, *expletive deleted*it. Busted. He speaks Spanish, we can't pull the 'no hablo Ingles' any more."

For what it's worth -- I honestly don't think the wage makes any difference. They just don't know how to do decent work, no matter how much you pay them. There's no such thing as quality work where most of them come from.

[Live Life]

Ilan Wurman is Julius E. Davis Professor of Law, University of Minnesota Law School. Author of two books on the Constitution, with a third on the way.

His draft paper proposes that birthright citizenship under the Fourteenth Amendment requires more than birth on U.S. soil, it hinges on a jurisdictional relationship rooted in international law and a social compact of allegiance.  The paper suggests that historical commentators and executive officials considered parental domicile (permanent residence) relevant to birthright citizenship claims, aligning with the international law perspective.  He notes that this view contrasts with the modern assumption that mere physical presence at birth suffices for citizenship.

He argues that the standard interpretation, where anyone born on U.S. soil and subject to U.S. law is a citizen, creates inconsistencies with historical exceptions and the amendment’s original purpose.  The paper supports arguments for restricting birthright citizenship, such as those in President Trump’s 2025 executive order, which denies citizenship to children of undocumented immigrants or temporary visitors.

The paper does not claim to overturn precedent like United States v. Wong Kim Ark (1898), which upheld citizenship for children of permanent residents, but suggests the Supreme Court has not ruled directly on children of undocumented immigrants.

Ilan Wurman - https://x.com/ilan_wurman/status/1911742366836236718

I have, finally, posted my draft paper on birthright citizenship.  There will be tons of criticism and I genuinely welcome feedback. But to say this question isn't close and the conventional wisdom is open and shut is a mistake. Paper here (85 pages) - https://t.co/qdMogKKNjY

Through my research, I have become convinced that an international law framework fits better than the prevailing theories (territorial jurisdiction, sovereign commands). That also seems to explain why contemporaneous writers thought the domicile of the alien mattered.

Jurisdiction under international law was also connected to allegiance and protection, which in turn seemed to depend on a mutual compact between the alien and sovereign. Bottom line: the application will be nuanced, and both sides have tended to overclaim. But the EO stands on firmer footing than many believed.

[Live Life]

Supreme Court to hear oral arguments in birthright citizenship consolidated cases on May 15 - https://www.foxnews.com/politics/supreme-court-hear-oral-arguments-birthright-citizenship-case

Here we go ... It's time - https://x.com/search?q=%22Birthright%20Citizenship%22&src=trend_click&vertical=trends

Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump - https://truthsocial.com/@realDonaldTrump/posts/114511710554568353

Big case today in the United States Supreme Court. Birthright Citizenship was not meant for people taking vacations to become permanent Citizens of the United States of America, and bringing their families with them, all the time laughing at the “SUCKERS” that we are! The United States of America is the only Country in the World that does this, for what reason, nobody knows — But the drug cartels love it! We are, for the sake of being politically correct, a STUPID Country but, in actuality, this is the exact opposite of being politically correct, and it is yet another point that leads to the dysfunction of America. Birthright Citizenship is about the babies of slaves. As conclusive proof, the Civil War ended in 1865, the Bill went to Congress less than a year later, in 1866, and was passed shortly after that. It had nothing to do with Illegal Immigration for people wanting to SCAM our Country, from all parts of the World, which they have done for many years. It had to do with Civil War results, and the babies of slaves who our politicians felt, correctly, needed protection. Please explain this to the Supreme Court of the United States. Again, remember, the Civil War ended in 1865, and the Bill goes to Congress in 1866 — We didn’t have people pouring into our Country from all over South America, and the rest of the World. It wasn’t even a subject. What we had were the BABIES OF SLAVES. Thank you for your attention to this matter. Good luck with this very important case. GOD BLESS THE U.S.A.!

[RocketMan]

I don't expect the SCOTUS will end birthright citizenship given the 5-4 or 6-3 left-of-center majority that seems to inhabit the place these days.

[Live Life]

Common Cause - https://x.com/CommonCause/status/1923014717913600069

The 14th Amendment guarantees citizenship to anyone born in the U.S. — no exceptions.

Trump’s latest executive order is unconstitutional and un-American.

It’s fearmongering, plain and simple.

Amy Swearer - https://x.com/AmySwearer/status/1923075387086557389

It guarantees citizenship to persons "born in the United States...and subject to the jurisdiction thereof." Even the most ardent defenders of the unqualified jus soli interpretation agree that the Citizenship Clause's jurisdictional element (1) exists, despite our tendency to ignore this fact, and (2) excludes at least some people born in the United States from automatic citizenship under some circumstances. Case in point: no one seriously argues that tribally-affiliated Native Americans are covered by the 14th Amendment, and their birthright citizenship was only guaranteed (well, technically, imposed on them) by a 1924 statute.

But, ironically, this claim of "no exceptions" wasn't even true under the old English common law rule, which still recognized several circumstances (albeit, fairly uncommon ones) under which birthright citizenship did not attach.

[Hawkmoon]

One might argue that anyone traveling here under a foreign passport, and possible a visa, is clearly still under the jurisdiction of their native country, even though temporarily also under the jurisdiction of the United States with repect to following our laws while here.

As to illegal aliens -- if they're here illegally, they probably left their native countries illegally, too, so they are still under their native country's jurisdiction.

[JN01]

I don't expect the SCOTUS will end birthright citizenship given the 5-4 or 6-3 left-of-center majority that seems to inhabit the place these days.

They aren't going to rule on that issue at all. They are going to decide if an inferior court judge can issue a nationwide injunction to block executive actions, or if the injunction should (rightfully) affect only the plaintiffs and/or district involved.  Hopefully this will stop the handful of lefty judges abusing their offices to stop Trump.

[RocketMan]

They aren't going to rule on that issue at all. They are going to decide if an inferior court judge can issue a nationwide injunction to block executive actions, or if the injunction should (rightfully) affect only the plaintiffs and/or district involved.  Hopefully this will stop the handful of lefty judges abusing their offices to stop Trump.

As I understand it, any results for the nationwide injunction issue will just be a side effect of their ruling on birthright citizenship.  This makes me very skeptical about any positive results coming from SCOTUS on this issue.

[Live Life]

Brilliant SCOTUS Brief Destroys Birthright Citizenship Hoax! John Eastman’s razor-sharp SCOTUS amicus brief shatters the myth of automatic citizenship for children of illegal aliens—14th Amendment never meant it! - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31J9TjPuA8Y

Fireworks at SCOTUS Over Birthright Citizenship and Lawfare 2.0 Against Trump, with RCP Hosts ... Megyn Kelly is joined by Tom Bevan, Carl Cannon, and Andrew Walworth of the RealClearPolitics Podcast, to discuss the arguments at the Supreme Court about birthright citizenship and nationwide injunctions overall, the lawfare against Trump stopping his administration's actions, and more - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8i_aeHza10

SCOTUS Could END Birthright Citizenship After EMERGENCY HEARING - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgYJ3Y2sjF8

[JTHunter]

Here we go ... It's time - https://x.com/search?q=%22Birthright%20Citizenship%22&src=trend_click&vertical=trends

Login required. 

[Live Life]

What Is Birthright Citizenship?

Do children born on U.S. soil automatically become American citizens? Many claim the Fourteenth Amendment of the Constitution guarantees that they do. Are they right? Amy Swearer, Senior Legal Fellow at the Heritage Foundation, confronts this question head-on.

https://www.prageru.com/video/what-is-birthright-citizenship