Muslim Man Kills Daughter For Not Wearing Hijab (Canada)

[gunsmith]

the vid
http://www.breitbart.tv/html/12704.html

the story
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=071211175557.p3d3kaah&show_article=1

Friends and classmates of a 16-year-old girl who police say was murdered by her devout Muslim father in a Toronto suburb told local media Tuesday she was killed for not wearing a hijab.

Police said in a statement they received an emergency call at 7:55 am local time Monday from "a man who indicated that he had just killed his daughter."

The victim, Aqsa Parvez, was "rushed to hospital with life-threatening injuries, but tragically passed away late last night."

Her father, Muhammad Parvez, 57, was arrested at the scene and will be formally charged with murder when he appears in court Wednesday, said police.

The girl's friends, meanwhile, told local media she was having trouble at home because she did not conform to the family's religious beliefs and refused to wear a traditional Islamic head scarf, or hijab.

"She wanted to go different ways than her family wanted to go, and she wanted to make her own path, but he (her father) wouldn't let her," one of her classmates told public broadcaster CBC.

"She loved clothes," another of her friends, Dominiquia Holmes-Thompson, told the daily Toronto Star. "She just wanted to show her beauty ... She just wanted to dress like us, just like a normal person."

According to her friends, Aqsa had worn the hijab at school last year, but rebelled in recent months.

They said she would leave home wearing a hijab and loose-fitting clothes, but would take off her head scarf and change into tighter garments at school, then change back before going home at the end of the day.

The victim's 26 year-old brother was also charged with obstructing police in the investigation.

[Manedwolf]

Ah, yes.

"Honor killing".

Welcome to the 6th century, Canada.

[280plus]

They said she would leave home wearing a hijab and loose-fitting clothes, but would take off her head scarf and change into tighter garments at school, then change back before going home at the end of the day.

Kids never change, I used to do the same thing with this denim jacket I had in HS. "Mother" wouldn't let me wear it because she said it made me look like a hoodlum so I snuck it to school and kept it in my locker and wore it at school. I don't remember how but she found out, got ahold of it and cut it up into pieces. Yea, she was a great mom. Guess I should be grateful she didn't kill me, although she may have come close a couple times, for real not figuratively. She wonders why I don't call.

Then there was the time she broke my "Ballad of John and Yoko" 45 because she said they were talking about crucifying Christ. THEN there was the time she destroyed my "Houses of the Holy" album cover (but not the album) because, "There's naked children on that cover!" I could go on, I won't...

[ilbob]

too bad canada does not have the needle. if anyone earned it, he did.

[De Selby]

Ah, yes.

"Honor killing".

Welcome to the 6th century, Canada.

No need to go back to that to find it in Canada-apparently you could have headlines like "Devout Bible Quoting Christian Murders 50 women":  http://www.canada.com/topics/news/national/story.html?id=3b742afe-c303-4fb7-9042-e20479bb05cb

"I know I was brought into this world to be hear today to change this world of there evil ways. They even want to dis-re-guard the ten command-ments from the time that Moses in his day brought in power which still is in existence today," wrote Pickton, who is facing another 20 counts of murder which are to be dealt with at a second trial.

There was also that religious Christian community activist who hated women so much he killed something like a hundred because of their low morals in Oregon: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3232567.stm

But hey, I guess deep religious convictions on the part of a murderer only matter if he's Muslim.  At least that's the impression I get from the way Muslims are treated in the media.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Ah yes, the knee-jerk Muslim Barbarian apologist comment.  Couldn't have gone too long without it.

[De Selby]

Ah yes, the knee-jerk Muslim Barbarian apologist comment.  Couldn't have gone too long without it.

Please explain to me what, in any possible light, can be construed as "apologetics" for this brutal crime?

The comment is on painting this as a religious issue, versus refusing to treat other murders where the murderer is religious as such simply because they aren't Muslims.  I think it's right not to play up the religious angle when some barbaric crime happens at the hands of someone who claims to be a religious Christian trying to "change this world of there evil ways"; that clearly isn't what Christianity teaches, and the guy is a lowlife murderer, and that's the way the news treats and we treat it.

So why doesn't Islam get the same level of respect? Why does everyone assume that what this guy did is sanctioned by his religion anymore than killing prostitutes is sanctioned by Christianity?

Sorry, but noting and questioning religious discrimination in coverage of crimes is not apologizing for murder. 

[Ron]

So why doesn't Islam get the same level of respect? Why does everyone assume that what this guy did is sanctioned by his religion anymore than killing prostitutes is sanctioned by Christianity?

I think you are missing the obvious point that Islam currently has a big problem with honor killings and other odd violent expressions of their faith.

It seems the moderate Muslim community while much larger has little influence on the minority community.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Ah yes, the knee-jerk Muslim Barbarian apologist comment.  Couldn't have gone too long without it.

Please explain to me what, in any possible light, can be construed as "apologetics" for this brutal crime?

The comment is on painting this as a religious issue, versus refusing to treat other murders where the murderer is religious as such simply because they aren't Muslims.  I think it's right not to play up the religious angle when some barbaric crime happens at the hands of someone who claims to be a religious Christian trying to "change this world of there evil ways"; that clearly isn't what Christianity teaches, and the guy is a lowlife murderer, and that's the way the news treats and we treat it.

So why doesn't Islam get the same level of respect? Why does everyone assume that what this guy did is sanctioned by his religion anymore than killing prostitutes is sanctioned by Christianity?

Sorry, but noting and questioning religious discrimination in coverage of crimes is not apologizing for murder. 

I don't believe you were trying to lessen the crime.  I do believe you were trying to lessen the complicity Islam has for this crime.  Drudging up a couple of stories about bona fide sociopaths, who coincidentally happen to be Christian, comes off as an attempt to diminish the negative influence of Islam, by equating Islam's wrong views on murder with Christianity's right views on murder.

Islam, unlike the other major religions, teaches that murder isn't always wrong.  That is wrong, and that's what it looks like you're trying to apologize for. 

I highly doubt the crime would have happened if Muhammad Parvez had been Christian, Jewish, or Hindu.  He appears to be an otherwise sane man.  Take away his religious views on clothing, women's rights, and honor killings, and there'd be no reason for him to commit the crime.

[De Selby]

Islam, unlike the other major religions, teaches that murder isn't always wrong.  That is wrong, and that's what it looks like you're trying to apologize for. 

There isn't anything to apologize for, because the statement is totally untrue.  If you are interested in what the religion actually teaches, trumpeting murder cases with no analysis of religion is not the way to find out.

I highly doubt the crime would have happened if Muhammad Parvez had been Christian, Jewish, or Hindu.  He appears to be an otherwise sane man.  Take away his religious views on clothing, women's rights, and honor killings, and there'd be no reason for him to commit the crime.

In what way does this guy "appear to be sane"? There is absolutely no detail on this matter whatsoever.  Violent and abusive parents have killed and do kill their children for disobedience regularly in America; and some of them are religious.  There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that this case is an example of a normal guy just propelled by his religious teaching to murder-indeed, it appears to be a cut and dry case of an abusive, controlling parent using violence against his own children (an all too common story for all religions.)

We don't know what his religious views were-but if they were something like what most Muslims believe about women and clothing, he'd have to believe that he earned himself the death penalty for murder.  The idea that Islam sanctions murdering your daughter for not wearing the right clothes seems to be what you're relying on here, and it's totally false. 


My question to you is: Where do you get the notion that punishing a girl for not wearing the hijab, or even requiring that she wear it, is something the vast majority of Muslims would agree with?  Indeed, the facts would support the opposite-in the vast majority of places where Muslims are the majority, the hijab is not required, nor is it commonly worn.  This murdering father, even if he believed that he had to do this as punishment, would be out of step with Islam in the same way that the Canadian serial killer is totally out of it with respect to Christian teaching today (although he might have been considered within his rights in a different place/time in history)

[Manedwolf]

Shootinstudent could write speeches for Ibrahim Hooper. 

[De Selby]

Shootinstudent could write speeches for Ibrahim Hooper. 

Of course that's a bad thing, because unlike you, the head of CAIR doesn't know what Islam teaches, or is part of the apparently billion man conspiracy to hide what Islam actually teaches. 

The idea that all prominent Muslim leaders are covering up "the truth" of what Islam actually teaches is a conspiracy theory, no different from the theories that have been levelled against other religions-Catholics, Jews, Mormons, etc etc.

[Manedwolf]

Tokyo Rose: "Hey GI, why you fight?"

[Len Budney]

The Catholic church has come a long way since the inquisition. Or has it? Perhaps it's been forced to compromise in a world where prosperity brings choices, and people increasingly choose secularism.

Whether or not Islam itself is behind the times--any more than the Vatican is, say--it's certainly true that the Muslim world is behind the times. Apart from a few of their rulers, who live like drunken frat boys at a panty raid, most live in relative squalor and repression. To say that "they" would like to destroy modern civilization is to say that they'd rather live short, miserable lives, squatting in huts and crapping in latrines. Pure nonsense. That's why so many of them come over to the West where they can enjoy modernity. There are between two and three million Muslims in the US, the vast majority of whom have never committed any act of terrorism.

Only one thing will bring Muslims into the 21st century: the same thing that forced the Mother Church to stop inquisiting and find other approaches. Raise the level of prosperity in that part of the world. The only thing we can do to that end is engage in free trade--which conservatives claim to be all about in the first place (though most of them are lying). Bombing the crap out of them won't help. It won't teach them to revere us as thunder gods, nor to befriend or obey us. It will encourage more of their only practical option: asymmetric warfare.

If only there were a presidential candidate who is all about free trade, and who is strong on defense while refusing offensive war and tangling alliances. 

Anyway, back to the jingoistic attacks on Shootinstudent already in progress. Them mooslims. Bah! They're savages. They don't respect life like we do, which is why we have to exterminate them like we're doin'. All they understand is force. Boo-yah!

--Len.

[CNYCacher]

I'm glad we are all here judging the man based on the speculations of a bunch of 16-yo girls.   

[Hawkmoon]

So why doesn't Islam get the same level of respect? Why does everyone assume that what this guy did is sanctioned by his religion anymore than killing prostitutes is sanctioned by Christianity?

Could it be because what he did is sanctioned by his religion? In fact, many would argue that it is required by his religion. That's what his understanding of Islam is, I'm sure. Even Muslim father's don't routinely go around offing their daughters for no reason.

My question to you is: Where do you get the notion that punishing a girl for not wearing the hijab, or even requiring that she wear it, is something the vast majority of Muslims would agree with?

Possibly from Afghanistan, where the Taliban are still big on drive-by killings of women who don't adhere to their dress code. Not all Muslims believe women must wear a hijab, of course, but you make it seem like only a tiny majority believe that way, and if that's what you believe ... I respectfully submit that it is you who are in error.

[Finch]

Anyway, back to the jingoistic attacks on Shootinstudent already in progress. Them mooslims. Bah! They're savages. They don't respect life like we do, which is why we have to exterminate them like we're doin'. All they understand is force. Boo-yah!

And don't forget - THEY HATE US FOR OUR FREEDOMS RAAAARRR!!!!

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

 

[De Selby]

Len, what you say not only makes sense, it jives with what most of the polls from the Arab world (apparently that's what we have to talk in these threads about when we talk about Islam-ignoring the fact that most muslims don't live there) show that people actually want American style freedoms-free press, the right to vote, property and security for everyone, etc etc.  And in places where votes do actually happen, these people consistently vote for platforms that are more in line with freedoms and prosperity than they do for Saudi style dictators.

Hawkmoon,

Could it be because what he did is sanctioned by his religion? In fact, many would argue that it is required by his religion. That's what his understanding of Islam is, I'm sure. Even Muslim father's don't routinely go around offing their daughters for no reason.

I don't know of a single Muslim authority who argues that this is "required", and most would say that the proper punishment for what this father did is death.  And no, "Muslim fathers" do not routinely off their daughters-that's completely off the wall and it's completely false.  

Possibly from Afghanistan, where the Taliban are still big on drive-by killings of women who don't adhere to their dress code. Not all Muslims believe women must wear a hijab, of course, but you make it seem like only a tiny majority believe that way, and if that's what you believe ... I respectfully submit that it is you who are in error.

Well, in the first place, the Taliban don't live in an Islamic law system.  They have their own legal system that is rooted in ancient Pahtan custom-it isn't Islamic, and most of the Taliban aren't Arabic speakers or experts on Islamic law.  They are Pahtan tribesmen-so it makes sense that they apply (surprise) the ancient legal system of their particular culture.  The consensus in Islamic scholarship on the dress of the Taliban (burqa) is that not only is it not required, it's possibly not allowed, and it's definitely not allowed to be worn as a statement of moral superiority.

On the hijab, the religious scholars (who are not clergy-there is no such thing as a Muslim "priest" or equivalent ordained position) mostly agree that it is required-but Muslims consistently vote for and live in societies that don't require it.  That isn't something you need to take my word for-take a look at a list of Muslim-majority states, and see how many require the hijab.  

[SomeKid]

SS, let me politely show you why most people consider you to be defending the scum. (And yes, I freely admit, I think you an apologizer as well, now that I have said that, you can consider me a hater, and procede to ignoring the rest of my post).

You pointed out examples of Christians doing bad things.
When a Christian does a bad thing, people criticize Christianity.
What do Christians do? We denounce the bad act.
In some cases (think the Amish school shooting) we not only pray for those hurt, and hope for the best, we actively send aid to them. The Amish VICTIMS went so far as to help the murderers family!

Now, lets compare that act, with you.

Muslim commit a barbaric act, that is pretty common in the Muslim world.
People denounce the act as barbarism.
You (and other Muslim apologists, like CAIR) immediately jump out, complaining of prejudice and attacking Christianity.
No denouncing his actions, just attacking Christianity as having bad apples, and grumbling about how everyone attacks Islam unfairly.

I looked through all your posts. I don't even see you denouncing his actions. Just attacking Christianity, and whining about the plight of Muslims.

Notice any difference there? Bueller?

To give you one more example, to this DAY over 6 YEARS after the fact, I have yet to meet one Muslim who will agree that Osama and his ilk deserve to all die. I have yet to encounter one who will flatly denounce his actions, but multiple who will attack both America and Christianty.

Spotting differences yet?

[gunsmith]

It is safe to say that there are tons more "honor killings" done by Muslims from the middle east
then there are similar crimes committed by Christians from anywhere.

I posted the story because I was sad about a beautiful young lady getting killed in such a brutal way.

I am not anti Muslim at all, and God knows family issues run deep and violent in every culture, but in modern middle eastern cultures (a minority of them Christian also) their is a brutal oppression of young women.
I hate it. How do we stop it? Where are all those femminist protesters now?

[De Selby]

You pointed out examples of Christians doing bad things.
When a Christian does a bad thing, people criticize Christianity.
What do Christians do? We denounce the bad act.

Actually, no, people don't blame christianity for it-just look at the coverage of the two psychos.  And they are right not to blame it-to take instances of crimes like these and ascribe them to Christianity just because the killer claimed to be Christian is wrong and unfair to all Christians.

Muslim commit a barbaric act, that is pretty common in the Muslim world.
People denounce the act as barbarism.

"People" includes Muslims.

You (and other Muslim apologists, like CAIR) immediately jump out, complaining of prejudice and attacking Christianity.
No denouncing his actions, just attacking Christianity as having bad apples, and grumbling about how everyone attacks Islam unfairly.

Yeah, the grumbling isn't about people condemning the act.  Notice that not a single line in my posts defends this murderer's crime.  The complaining is about blaming the murder committed by a single man, on a whole religion, and claiming that my religion somehow was at fault for what this scumbag chose to do.  Sorry, not buying-the murderer is responsible for the murder, not every member of a religion he claimed to adhere to.

To give you one more example, to this DAY over 6 YEARS after the fact, I have yet to meet one Muslim who will agree that Osama and his ilk deserve to all die. I have yet to encounter one who will flatly denounce his actions, but multiple who will attack both America and Christianty.

Okay, try this-find one Muslim organization in America that has not condemned Osama, Al Qaeda, and the terrorist attacks committed by them?

If you haven't met one, you haven't met any, or you simply haven't asked.  Perhaps what is happening is that today, you don't see it, because we're all tired of having to say "I hate Osama bin Laden" in every single conversation with everyone we talk to.  It gets old-sort of like being a gun owner and having to explain that you don't believe people should be able to shoot each other down in duels at the drop of a hat, or having to explain that you aren't a blood thirsty racist member of the Aryan nations just because you like guns and nascar.  It offends gun owners to be treated this way, and rightly offends Muslims that some people will never stop demanding "clear denuncations of terrorism" as if they haven't happened, and if you're somehow suspicious simply because you don't begin every sentence with "I hate osama."

[SomeKid]

SS, you say you haven't defended the man, but you are. Every post here has been a defense that covers this man, though not directly.

Are you incapable of coming out and denouncing fellow Muslims?

[De Selby]

It is safe to say that there are tons more "honor killings" done by Muslims from the middle east
then there are similar crimes committed by Christians from anywhere.

No, this isn't safe to say-a good number of the "honor killings" in the middle east are done by Christians and other religious minorities, who tend to be more extreme in those places about "their women" going off with men outside the clan than the majority population, which is more secure in its identity.  Honor killings happen in these countries despite religion, not because of it.

I am not anti Muslim at all, and God knows family issues run deep and violent in every culture, but in modern middle eastern cultures (a minority of them Christian also) their is a brutal oppression of young women.
I hate it. How do we stop it? Where are all those femminist protesters now?

There are no protestors in those countries, because protesting the dictator means being tortured and killed.  A sure way to aggravate the problem is to only become concerned about rights when it serves the purposes of a foreign power; what ends up happening is that the real women's rights activists in these countries get written off as stooges of the former-colonial powers.  It would be like if the USSR started running ads and campaigning in favor of a particular politicians-that politician would lose a huge amount of credibility just by association.  

Supporting local women's rights organizations in the middle east, and putting pressure on their governments to hold elections and make decisions transparently, rather than in secret, is how you deal with this.  Not by associating women's rights with a bias against Islam generally.

[De Selby]

SS, you say you haven't defended the man, but you are. Every post here has been a defense that covers this man, though not directly.

Are you incapable of coming out and denouncing fellow Muslims?

Uh, please cite the material that "defends this man"? I haven't even called him a man-I refer to him as murderer, scumbag, etc etc.

Let me quote from my previous posts:

But hey, I guess deep religious convictions on the part of a murderer only matter if he's Muslim.

Please explain to me what, in any possible light, can be construed as "apologetics" for this brutal crime?

We don't know what his religious views were-but if they were something like what most Muslims believe about women and clothing, he'd have to believe that he earned himself the death penalty for murder.

This murdering father, even if he believed that he had to do this as punishment, would be out of step with Islam in the same way that the Canadian serial killer is totally out of it with respect to Christian teaching today

Notice that not a single line in my posts defends this murderer's crime.

Let's see SomeKid-by my count, that's condemnation and clear labelling of this guy as a murderer in every single post on this thread.  I also pointed out that according to the rules in Islam for this crime, he deserves the death penalty.

What did you want or expect? Could you give me an example of what condemnation is, if not branding the guy a brutal murderer?  And what is "indirectly covering" about saying these things?