Toshiba Builds 100x Smaller Micro Nuclear Reactor

[mgdavis]

Power lines are overwhelmingly aluminum with a steel core over rather than copper.

Fixed, I think.

[never_retreat]

The actual term for the wire is, ACSR aluminum clad steel reinforced.
So essentially you have several spring steel strands with aluminum strands around it.
The steel gives it its tensile strength the aluminum is carrying the current.

[drewtam]

Sweet!  Can't wait to pick one up at Sam's Club.  I bet they'll have them for only $2,999,999.98!

Jesting aside, $3M would be way too much for 200kW. At $.15/kwhr it would still take 12yrs to get ROI. Or at $15/W its three times as expensive as solar. A nuclear powerplant is more like $2-$3/W installed. (Half the price of solar ~$5-$7/W)

This thing must be significantly cheaper to compete with diesel or solar or anything else portable. My guess is that it would need to be about $750,000/pc to compete. That would be $3.75/W installed, and a 6yr ROI at $.07/kwhr.

[Waitone]

Nice thought but irrelevant.  Environmental nazis will go absolute nutso at the thought of nuclear reactors in every apartment building.  Until we get the environmental noose from around our neck all the neato technology in the world is waste.  Meanwhile we can soak in our shame of letting the French develop advanced reactor technology.  Same on us.

[Firethorn]

Power lines are overwhelmingly aluminum with a steel core over copper.

Please explain better? Is the steel core over the copper? Or is it aluminum, then copper, then steel? Or is it just steel and aluminum?

Sorry, there are some copper power lines out there, but the overwhelming majority of them are aluminum with a steel core for strength.

Copper is too expensive for long runs.

Among other things, I know of at least 4 superconductor runs, and there's at least a few test lines with a fiber core rather than steel - The same stuff as used in fiber optics.  The steel doesn't transmit much of the power, the fiber is stronger, and therefore can be made thinner, allowing extra thickness of aluminum make them capable of carrying more power.

As for the cost of the unit, I don't think it's 3 million upfront, it's more like 3 million over the course of the lease.  Toshiba's not proposing selling these, they're leasing them.

5 cents a kwh is too expensive for most forms of utility power, but it's a deal for retail.

[geronimotwo]

Power lines are overwhelmingly aluminum with a steel core over copper.

Please explain better? Is the steel core over the copper? Or is it aluminum, then copper, then steel? Or is it just steel and aluminum?

Sorry, there are some copper power lines out there, but the overwhelming majority of them are aluminum with a steel core for strength.

Copper is too expensive for long runs.

Among other things, I know of at least 4 superconductor runs, and there's at least a few test lines with a fiber core rather than steel - The same stuff as used in fiber optics.  The steel doesn't transmit much of the power, the fiber is stronger, and therefore can be made thinner, allowing extra thickness of aluminum make them capable of carrying more power.

As for the cost of the unit, I don't think it's 3 million upfront, it's more like 3 million over the course of the lease.  Toshiba's not proposing selling these, they're leasing them.

5 cents a kwh is too expensive for most forms of utility power, but it's a deal for retail.

the aluminum  (or copper) is only needed on the outside of the wire due to a phenomenon (if i recall correctly) called skin effect. this limits the electron flow nearly entirely to the outside of the wire. hence copper tubing could carry as many amps as solid copper of the same diameter.

also, didn't the government try to tell us that nuclear energy would result in free power back in the 40's or 50's?

[drewtam]

Nice thought but irrelevant.  Environmental nazis will go absolute nutso at the thought of nuclear reactors in every apartment building.  Until we get the environmental noose from around our neck all the neato technology in the world is waste.

I've noticed a quiet rising tide of change on this subject. Numerous environmental activist leaders have switched sides on this debate. The most notable was one of the founders of green peace that has been advocating nuclear power for some years now. Now there is a new and influential book by Gwyneth Cravens, sierra club member, called Power to Save the World: The Truth About Nuclear Energy laying out the argument for supporting nuclear energy for environmental reasons. Also, there has been recent approval to begin development of new nuclear power plants in the US.

also, didn't the government try to tell us that nuclear energy would result in free power back in the 40's or 50's?

I believe a US admiral said that once. I can't imagine any power company ever saying anything like that, or even remotely supporting the idea, lol.

This change makes me optimistic about future nuclear power.

[zahc]

[/quote]

the aluminum  (or copper) is only needed on the outside of the wire due to a phenomenon (if i recall correctly) called skin effect. this limits the electron flow nearly entirely to the outside of the wire. hence copper tubing could carry as many amps as solid copper of the same diameter.

also, didn't the government try to tell us that nuclear energy would result in free power back in the 40's or 50's?
[/quote]

skin effect is only significant at frequencies much higher than powerline transmission frequencies.

[seeker_two]

Think of all the copper one can aquire then when the powerlines aren't needed anymore. More copper=more to coat bullets in, which should lower the prices a bit .

Power lines are overwhelmingly aluminum with a steel core over copper. 

Wolf & Blazer will be thrilled..... 

[Antibubba]

They say micro generators and micro powerplants are going to be the way of the future.  It eliminates the need fo millions of miles of power lines.  It also isolates one neighborhood from the rest, limiting the effects of power outages. 

It'll also allow like-minded neighbors to choose how "green" their power will be.  A whole neighborhood could be wind and solar if they chose.

[Warren]

If mini-nukes become popular does that mean I can finally buy my Project Orion powered SUV?

[Manedwolf]

They say micro generators and micro powerplants are going to be the way of the future.  It eliminates the need fo millions of miles of power lines.  It also isolates one neighborhood from the rest, limiting the effects of power outages. 

It'll also allow like-minded neighbors to choose how "green" their power will be.  A whole neighborhood could be wind and solar if they chose.

There are issues. Metal-bladed wind turbines can and do completely screw up OTA transmissions of various types.
That affects neighbors nearby.

[Warren]

If this does happen and power lines go away this will open up the air for flying cars.

[ilbob]

the aluminum  (or copper) is only needed on the outside of the wire due to a phenomenon (if i recall correctly) called skin effect. this limits the electron flow nearly entirely to the outside of the wire. hence copper tubing could carry as many amps as solid copper of the same diameter.

also, didn't the government try to tell us that nuclear energy would result in free power back in the 40's or 50's?
[/quote]

skin effect is only significant at frequencies much higher than powerline transmission frequencies.
[/quote]

over long distances, sometimes DC is used for that very reason.

its not that big of a deal for a few hundred feet but for a few hundred miles...

[brer]

Most transmission lines are strictly AC. There are a few DC lines out there, but not because of skin effect.

Skin effect is almost negligable on a straight line transmission line at 60 hertz.

Skin effect is the effect where electrons like to travel on the surface of the wire due to high impedance inside the wire.  This only happens at frequencies much higher than 60 hertz. There is impedance on long transmission lines, but not much in the way of skin effect.

Think about how big of a hassle it would be to convert extremely high voltage dc over to ac sometime, or change its voltage.