Time to break out your senate writing gear!

[Physics]

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h110-1955

H.R. 1955: Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act of 2007

Just passed the house.  Start writing your senators.

"`(2) VIOLENT RADICALIZATION- The term `violent radicalization' means the process of adopting or promoting an extremist belief system for the purpose of facilitating ideologically based violence to advance political, religious, or social change."  <---- that doesn't sound good. 

[The Rabbi]

What's wrong with it?

[Nick1911]

What's wrong with it?

It depends on who is defining terms like "extremist belief system", "violence", and "advance political, religious, or social change".  All of these terms are vague enough to mean whatever those in power want at a given time.

[The Rabbi]

Advocating the violent overthrow of the U.S. is already illegal. I am not sure how this helps, what problem it is meant to solve, or whether it can be effective if there is such a problem.
But I dont see it as much of a difference from present law.

[Manedwolf]

      `(1) COMMISSION- The term `Commission' means the National Commission on the Prevention of Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism established under section 899C.

      `(2) VIOLENT RADICALIZATION- The term `violent radicalization' means the process of adopting or promoting an extremist belief system for the purpose of facilitating ideologically based violence to advance political, religious, or social change.

      `(3) HOMEGROWN TERRORISM- The term `homegrown terrorism' means the use, planned use, or threatened use, of force or violence by a group or individual born, raised, or based and operating primarily within the United States or any possession of the United States to intimidate or coerce the United States government, the civilian population of the United States, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives.

      `(4) IDEOLOGICALLY BASED VIOLENCE- The term `ideologically based violence' means the use, planned use, or threatened use of force or violence by a group or individual to promote the group or individual's political, religious, or social beliefs.

I see nothing wrong with that. In case you hadn't noticed, we're currently fighting people who crash planes into buildings and think it's perfectly acceptable behavior to saw an innocent person's head off with a dull machete.

[Nick1911]

I see nothing wrong with that.

That's fine and dandy until radical enlightenment-era concepts like "Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness", "a well-regulated militia as being necessary to the security of a free State", "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures" are considered part of an "extremist belief system".  Heaven forbid one advocate violent actions to "advance political, religious, or social change".

It's not like this nation was founded on a (then) extremist belief system, by violent means, to advance political, religious, and social change.

Clearly, there is no place for in modern society for this.  We need a law against it.  Just like all these right-wing nut jobs armed to the teeth.

Just my take.  YMMV

In case you hadn't noticed, we're currently fighting people who crash planes into buildings and think it's perfectly acceptable behavior to saw an innocent person's head off with a dull machete.

I have noticed, but it is also a matter of perspective.  Would group of people who crash planes into buildings and think it's perfectly acceptable behavior to saw an innocent person's head off with a dull machete consider themselves radical?  Or would they consider a nation who carved out a Jewish nation in their homeland radicals?

[Paddy]

All part of the War on Terra to protect us from the Nookular Threat of the Evildoers.

[Sergeant Bob]

What's wrong with it?

If nothing else, its another govt jobs program for congress and all their lackeys, which will likely do little to advance the war on terrism.

[Bogie]

US-based law enforcement (i.e., FBI, etc.) desperately wants any terrorism to be homegrown. Because if it is foreign, they lose budget.
 
Follow the money.

[The Rabbi]

I see nothing wrong with that.

That's fine and dandy until radical enlightenment-era concepts like "Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness", "a well-regulated militia as being necessary to the security of a free State", "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures" are considered part of an "extremist belief system".  Heaven forbid one advocate violent actions to "advance political, religious, or social change".

Is there anyone, anyone, who is proposing anything remotely like that?
No, I didnt think so either.

[DustinD]

Considering how current laws where abused against the harmless versions of militia and lefty groups, and how advocating murder and the violent over throw of the US is already illegal I would not want to expand these laws at all.

If this law was passed, quite a few people on THR and TFL could be arrested due to how easily the feds have trumped up charges on other groups out there in the past.

It will be fun to read this groups propaganda though.

[Frank Castle]

(4) IDEOLOGICALLY BASED VIOLENCE- The term `ideologically based violence' means the use, planned use, or threatened use of force or violence by a group or individual to promote the group or individual's political, religious, or social beliefs.

So if you have CCW your a homegrown Terrorists!!

[Finch]

You know, the PATRIOT act was sold to us on the basis that it was to fight terrorism. Just recently it was used to shut down a strip club here in Vegas. I can only imagine how something like this could be used....

[The Rabbi]

You know, the PATRIOT act was sold to us on the basis that it was to fight terrorism. Just recently it was used to shut down a strip club here in Vegas. I can only imagine how something like this could be used....

Would you care to post a link so we can see what actually happened?

[Tuco]

PATRIOT ..blah.. used to shut down a strip club here in Vegas.....

I remember one from several years back.... and it's not down the memory hole yet..

http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/nevada/2003/nov/04/110410819.html

The FBI used the USA Patriot Act to obtain financial information about key figures in a political corruption probe centered on striptease club owner Michael Galardi, an agent said.

Investigators used a section of the Patriot Act to get subpoenas for financial documents, said Special Agent Jim Stern, a spokesman for the Las Vegas FBI office.

"It was used appropriately by the FBI and was clearly within the legal parameters of the statute," Stern said.

...Blah blah blah....

The measure lets federal investigators seek financial records of people suspected of being terrorists or laundering money.
Malone's lawyer called it an outrage that the FBI used anti-terrorism measures in an effort to gather information on his client.
"The Patriot Act ... clearly was not intended for this," Las Vegas lawyer Dominic Gentile said.

Gary Peck, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Nevada, said the Patriot Act included provisions "that in no way had anything to do with the threat of terrorism, but could help them in your more garden variety criminal prosecutions."
Attorney Richard Wright, who represents McDonald, said he was unaware investigators had used Patriot Act powers.
"It isn't anything that's lawfully known," he said (emphasis added)
.... blah blah blah...

more at link above.


I do recall the Patriot act being used against radical extremist meth cookers in North Carolina  ...surf surf surf....
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_155061.html
less info now as three years ago.

But lo and behold, a shining shaft of light!!!  The renewal of the PATRIOT act in 05 expanded its jurisdiction over the radical extremist meth cookers.  And over those of us suffering from the common cold.

The Patriot Act Reauthorization Combats Methamphetamine Abuse
http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/patriotact/

The Patriot Act Reauthorization Includes The Combat Methamphetamine Epidemic Act Of 2005. This bill introduces commonsense safeguards that will make many ingredients used in methamphetamine manufacturing more difficult to obtain in bulk and easier for law enforcement to track. For example, the bill places limits on large-scale purchases of over-the-counter drugs that are used to manufacture methamphetamines- and requires stores to keep these ingredients behind the counter or in locked display cases. It increases penalties for smuggling and selling methamphetamines.

[The Rabbi]

The FBI used the USA Patriot Act to obtain financial information about key figures in a political corruption probe centered on striptease club owner Michael Galardi, an agent said.

Investigators used a section of the Patriot Act to get subpoenas for financial documents, said Special Agent Jim Stern, a spokesman for the Las Vegas FBI office.

Well, that is a far piece from using the Patriot act to shut down a strip club.
Good.  I have no brief for corrupt politicians or meth labs.  Use whatever you want to get rid of them.

[Manedwolf]

I find that it's generally in everyone's interest to shut down meth labs before they explode and take out half of an occupied neighborhood. Don't you?

[Tuco]

I find that it's generally in everyone's interest to shut down meth labs before they explode and take out half of an occupied neighborhood. Don't you?

Please don't ask me to quote the state, local and national laws that ALREADY EXISTED IN 2001 that criminalize the possession, manufacture and distribution of illegal drugs, because the point has already been wasted, obviously.

Or do you really need it spelled out? 
I will, if you do, but I am getting dangerously close to my self imposed daily internet limit, and I feel your feigned ignorance is simply an attempt to appear PATRIOTic.

[The Rabbi]

The Patriot Act provisions did not further criminalize meth labs.  They did facilitate sharing of information that led to the identification and subsequent shutting down of the lab.  Will you argue that's a bad thing?

[Tuco]

The Patriot Act provisions did not further criminalize meth labs.

Sometimes laziness looks like stupidity, so I suggest study before responding.

H.R. 3199 - Combat Methamphetamine Epidemic Act of 2005

CMEA is Title VII of the USA PATRIOT Improvement and Reauthorization Act of 2005

http://www.house.gov/gallegly/issues/crime/crimedocs/RS22325.pdf


I agree, meth is insidious (sp?), counterproductive and suicidal.  But it's already illegal.

Your welcome.

[The Rabbi]

The Patriot Act provisions did not further criminalize meth labs.

Sometimes laziness looks like stupidity, so I suggest study before responding.

H.R. 3199 - Combat Methamphetamine Epidemic Act of 2005

CMEA is Title VII of the USA PATRIOT Improvement and Reauthorization Act of 2005

http://www.house.gov/gallegly/issues/crime/crimedocs/RS22325.pdf


I agree, meth is insidious (sp?), counterproductive and suicidal.  But it's already illegal.

Your welcome.

Thanks for quoting a different bill, Two Cold Soakers.
But yes, the "Reauthorization Act" did deal with MA.  And a good thing too.

[Dntsycnt]

Isn't the idea of the second amendment to keep the government afraid due to threat of violence by the U.S. citizens in response to tyrannical government?

So wouldn't that fall into:

`(3) HOMEGROWN TERRORISM- The term `homegrown terrorism' means the use, planned use, or threatened use, of force or violence by a group or individual born, raised, or based and operating primarily within the United States or any possession of the United States to intimidate or coerce the United States government, the civilian population of the United States, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives.

`(4) IDEOLOGICALLY BASED VIOLENCE- The term `ideologically based violence' means the use, planned use, or threatened use of force or violence by a group or individual to promote the group or individual's political, religious, or social beliefs.

I mean, it is threatened force used to promote social beliefs...