Osama Bin Laden...

[Tecumseh]

Where is he?  I thought he was the number one goal?  Why does the fight seem largely abandoned in favor of Iraq?

Anyone else think that he is not in Iraq?

[Paddy]

 Bush Quotes about Bin Laden

For your amusement and future reference, here's what Bush has said about bin Laden at various points in time, depending on how he was trying to spin things:

"The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our number one priority and we will not rest until we find him."
- G.W. Bush, 9/13/01

"I want justice...There's an old poster out West, as I recall, that said, 'Wanted: Dead or Alive,'"
- G.W. Bush, 9/17/01, UPI

"...Secondly, he is not escaping us. This is a guy, who, three months ago, was in control of a county [sic]. Now he's maybe in control of a cave. He's on the run. Listen, a while ago I said to the American people, our objective is more than bin Laden. But one of the things for certain is we're going to get him running and keep him running, and bring him to justice. And that's what's happening. He's on the run, if he's running at all. So we don't know whether he's in cave with the door shut, or a cave with the door open -- we just don't know...."
- Bush, in remarks in a Press Availablity with the Press Travel Pool,
The Prairie Chapel Ranch, Crawford TX, 12/28/01, as reported on
official White House site

"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority."
- G.W. Bush, 3/13/02

"So I don't know where he is.  You know, I just don't spend that much time on him, Kelly, to be honest with you.  "

[K Frame]

Where is he?

Obviously hiding.

If you think that he's somehow getting a free pass and is living out in the open with his name on the mailbox, you're sadly mistaken.

Bin Laden chose his base of operations very well.

The area where he is known to have been operating, along the border of Pakistan and Afghanistan, is an unbelievable warren of caves, valleys, gullies, mountains, etc. It's also full of people who are friendly too, and willing to hide, Bin Laden.

This concept of "well he's out there so we could be able to find him in about 2 minutes, the fact that we haven't means that we're just not looking and it's all George Bush's fault" is just a pile of crap.

[Manedwolf]

I still think we ought to just sign up for a credit card in his name, charge a bunch of crap and then not pay it.

They'll find him!

[Paddy]

"The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our number one priority and we will not rest until we find him."
- G.W. Bush, 9/13/01

then, only 6 months later

"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority."
- G.W. Bush, 3/13/02

I understand.  Things change. Like the purpose of invasion and war.  First it's WMD's.  Failing that, it becomes 'regime change'.  Accomplishing that, the 'war' continues, but for a new reason-"democratization".  Whatever convenient excuse can be marketed to the rubes.

[Tecumseh]

Where is he?

Obviously hiding.

If you think that he's somehow getting a free pass and is living out in the open with his name on the mailbox, you're sadly mistaken.

Bin Laden chose his base of operations very well.

The area where he is known to have been operating, along the border of Pakistan and Afghanistan, is an unbelievable warren of caves, valleys, gullies, mountains, etc. It's also full of people who are friendly too, and willing to hide, Bin Laden.

This concept of "well he's out there so we could be able to find him in about 2 minutes, the fact that we haven't means that we're just not looking and it's all George Bush's fault" is just a pile of crap.

Well if that is the case, then I am assuming he is not in Iraq.  Why are we looking for him there?

[K Frame]

"Why are we looking for him there?"

Obviously you've bought into the Democratic explanations of why the United States is in Iraq.

[MechAg94]

NASA Photo Shows Humanoid Figure on Mars

Wednesday, January 23, 2008

 NASA

A detail from a NASA image of a Martian crater shows ... well, something.

Is it Bigfoot? A Tusken Raider from the first "Star Wars" movie? Or just a rock?

British newspapers went crazy Wednesday morning about an image from Mars that appears to show a humanoid figure descending a shallow hillside.

The "alien" is actually a blurry detail in a huge panoramic photograph snapped on the edge of Mars' Gusev crater by NASA's Spirit rover in early November, and posted on NASA's Web site on Jan. 2.

Naturally, it took the Photoshop skills of dedicated bloggers to find the "humanoid."

" Click here for the full NASA image. If that doesn't work, try this. The figure is near the bottom left corner.

"NASA scientists have been puzzled by the peculiarly life-like image," declared the Times of London, despite the apparent fact that no one from NASA has had any comment.
Related

The skeptical Web site BadAstronomy.com, however, scoffed, "Puhlllleeeeze. A man? It's a tiny rock only a few inches high. It's only a few feet from the rover!"

Other British papers saw the humo(u)r in the story, with the Sun theorizing that it was Detective Gene Hunt, the drunken, sexist policeman from the BBC time-traveling crime series "Life on Mars."

"It's Usama bin Laden!" declared one Times of London commenter. "All this time we thought he was in Pakistan."

[onions!]

A joke I received today.

Little Katie comes home from first grade and tells her father that they learned about the history of Valentine's Day.  'Since Valentine's Day is for a Christian saint and we're Jewish,' she asks, 'Will God get mad at me for giving someone a valentine?'

Katie's father thinks a bit, then says 'No, I don't think God would get mad. Who do you want to give a Valentine to?'

'Osama Bin Laden,' she says.

 'Why Osama Bin Laden,' her father asks in shock.

 'Well,' she says, 'I thought that if a little American Jewish girl could have enough love to give Osama a Valentine, he might start to think that maybe we're not all bad, and maybe start loving people a little bit.  And if other kids saw what I did and sent Valentines to Osama, he'd love everyone a lot. And then he'd start going all over the place to tell everyone how much he loved them and how he didn't hate anyone anymore.'

Her father's heart swells and he looks at his daughter with new found pride.  'Katie, that's the most wonderful thing I've ever heard.'

'I know,' Katie says, 'and once that gets him out in the open, the Marines could shoot the bastard.'

[HankB]

It took US LEOs quite a while to find Eric Rudolph right here in the USA, and he was finally caught purely by luck.

We're still looking for D. B. Cooper. (He may be dead, but we just don't know.)

Bin Laden has been hiding for 5 years, and certainly has people helping him hide . . . it's hard to find someone who's laying low on the other side of the world, and has resources to help himself disappear.

[Tecumseh]

"Why are we looking for him there?"

Obviously you've bought into the Democratic explanations of why the United States is in Iraq.

  The WMDs?  The Regime Change?  I thought we were helping them establish  democracy?  If I remember correctly they voted the US out but that did not happen.

Either way, I thought Osama was priority one?  Shouldnt we be searching for him instead of liberating other countries?  I thought he was the most dangerous man on the planet?  Is he more dangerous than Saddam was?

[CAnnoneer]

People forget how big our planet really is. And how small a single person is by comparison.

It is amusing to me how Dems bitch about OBL being on the loose all the time, as a way to attack GWB, but deep inside themselves they fear he might be caught during GWB's mandate.

[Sergeant Bob]

Have we so run out of things to talk about that we need to recycle 6 year old Bush bashes?

[K Frame]

Have we so run out of things to talk about that we need to recycle 6 year old Bush bashes?

Well, when that's all they've got, they'll keep going back to it, I guess.

[Tecumseh]

Have we so run out of things to talk about that we need to recycle 6 year old Bush bashes?

  I am just worried about it.  If he is such a major threat to our nation, then by logic wouldn't we be very interested in apprehending him.  I am not Bush bashing.  I was watching television, and I wanted to wonder why we stopped pursuing Osama Bin Laden? 

[Scout26]

Congrats Tecumseh, I had one nerve left today and you just got on it.  

Ever humped everything you owned for miles and miles ??
How about stepping out into darkness at about 2,000 ft AGL with 70 lbs of gear and your weapon strapped to your ass??
Ever been responsible for completing the mission while jealously guarding the lives of 30-150 of your troops ??

Yeah, I didnt think so.


Ever been to Afghanistan ??

How about Pakistan ??  Specifically the Tribal regions ??

Keep in mind that when the Soviets invaded Afghanistan in Dec 1979 it was a 3rd World shithole, and they finally pulled out in Feb 1989 .  In the meantime they pretty much killed anyone who had two brains cells to rub together and destroyed most of the infrastructure.  Then there were a couple years of civil war which finally left the Taliban in charge and they basically finished what the Soviets started as far as killing smart people and destroying anything more then two mud bricks tall.  I remember an Air Force General answering a reporters question shortly after 9/11 as something like Yeah, we can bomb them back to the Stone Age, should take about 10-15 minutes.  Its going to take a lot of money and years of work just to bring it up to the level of 3rd World Shithole.  

Its not like we can just go cave-to-cave, ring the door bell and say Can Osama come out and play ??  Youre talking a country roughly the size of Manitoba, but instead of being roughly flat glacial plains, its damn near all vertical.  Not nice rolling hills, but more a F*@& you, try to climb this vertical.  And as a previous poster pointed out, we still havent found DB Cooper and Eric Rudolph ran around the Appalachian mountains for years.  Not to mention a bunch of other people who have disappeared.  Just from around here near Chicago, we can't find Stacey Peterson, Lisa Stebic, or John Spira.  

Do you realize that we have ~23,000 troops in Afghanistan and another 17,000 from NATO?? They are currently working to help the Afghani people and hunt for OBL. Several of them are people who I served with and we still talk.  They all pretty much agree that theyd rather be in Iraq then in Afghanistan.

I lost a bud from my Military Police Officer Advanced Course in Iraq in 2003.  

So Mr. Internet Commando/Smart Guy, why dont you take off the Ron Paul Wookie costume, get off the computer, wash the Cheetos stains off your fingers, get out of your moms basement and go down to the Army or Marine recruiter and say Id like to pick up a weapon and lead the hunt for OBL, cause I know I can find his ass.  In the meantime your little hissy fit falls under the tis a tale told by an idiot; full of sound and fury; signifying nothing.

[RANT MODE = OFF]

To the Mods, I've got my heels locked and at attention awaiting my deserved ass-chewing.

[Manedwolf]

There's also the fact that bin Laden is likely, or at least possibly living in a flat in Pakistan...

...which we can't invade because Pakistan has nuclear weapons and if we invaded the government would fall and the jihadists would take over and have nuclear weapons which they'd fire at India and Israel and India and Israel would fire back and then millions of people could die, especially in India, and...

You see?

The world is a lot more complex than comic books. 

And if, by chance, he is still in any of the tribal regions of either country, it's a HUGE place that is indeed harsh terrain, rocks that will cut you to pieces, and extremes of temperatures. With, of course, the added fun of anything from Taliban ambushes to the odd tribesperson taking a pop at your people with anything from a Mosin to a duct-taped RPG. Ask the Soviets how that goes. If you even take the time to watch some YouTube videos, you'll see what a harsh, harsh place it is, like another planet.

Here you go. One video example...Luckily there was an A-10 around to strafe at some bad guys that were on the high ground in this clip. But LOOK at that terrain, those rocks. Does that look like a place where you could easily find one guy? It looks like they're fighting on Mars.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVp9NsYbxBU

[Finch]

Well, when that's all they've got, they'll keep going back to it, I guess.

I guess the one thing that keeps playing in my head is this. Why would we decide to commit a much larger force to invading Iraq, a country which was no threat to us, instead of using an equal size force in finding the people who actually attack the United States?

Follow me on this.

1.) We get attacked by a group of people, not a nation, but a group of people.

2.) Bush makes a half-assed attempt and finding and killing those actually responsible.

3.) 1 1/2 years later we are in Iraq. For what purpose? Who the hell knows. But those who actually did use harm are still running around and now have better fodder for recruitment. Yea Bush!

[Scout26]

Iraq, a country which was no threat to us

Yep, good ol' cuddly-wuddly Saddam, he just wanted to play patty-cake and eat gooey snacks and was a friend to everyone.

2.) Bush makes a half-assed attempt and finding and killing those actually responsible.

Pick up a weapon and lead the way. Since you're soooooooo much smarter/better at it then the people who are currently and have been doing it for several years now.

[Finch]

Yep, good ol' cuddly-wuddly Saddam, he just wanted to play patty-cake and eat gooey snacks and was a friend to everyone.

Seriously, nobody is defending Saddam as a nice person. But you are deviating from the point I was making, possible because you have nothing to counter with?

Pick up a weapon and lead the way. Since you're soooooooo much smarter/better at it then the people who are currently and have been doing it for several years now.

Yeah yeah yeah. You just love to do this. Because I'm not the one over there I have should have no input on how things are done, right?  Fantastic. You're not an accountant, so you don't get to disagree with the national budget. You're not a Senator, so you don't get to disagree with legislation. Come back with something of substance rather than " Pick up a weapon nancy boy and get your ass over there RARGHH!!"

  - another for good measure.

[jefnvk]

Heck, I'd contract it out.  None of his friends wants to rat him out for $25mil.  Up the rewards a bit and let Americans find him.

[Scout26]

Because I'm not the one over there I have should have no input on how things are done, right?

I'm open to ideas. You presented none on how to get the job done.  I'm sick and tired "Waaaah, Bush hasn't caught OBL yet, Waaaah."  I merely suggested that you lead the way and show us what were doing wrong and how to do it better.

Your point was Iraq was no threat to us.  How many times do you get to use WMD's or invade neighboring counties (especially those that are smaller and friendly to us) before you are considered a threat ?? 

[Finch]

Your point was Iraq was no threat to us.  How many times do you get to use WMD's or invade neighboring counties (especially those that are smaller and friendly to us) before you are considered a threat ?? 

IRAQI'S WERE AT YOU FRONT DOOR!!! OH MY GOD RUN!!

Oh, wait, you live in America. Not, Kuwait. America. Please don't tell me you honestly feared an invasion from Iraq? We cannot afford to invade every country that does something wrong to another. Sad but true.

I merely suggested that you lead the way and show us what were doing wrong and how to do it better.

Fine, here is the way to do things that would be the best benefit to the United States. Leave. Nothing good will come from us staying in Iraq. The same reason Reagan left Lebanon is the same reason we shouldn't be in Iraq or anywhere in the Middle East(unless we are actively perusing known terrorists).

[Scout26]

The same reason Reagan left Lebanon is the same reason we shouldn't be in Iraq or anywhere in the Middle East

Yep, and it's been nothing but a sunshined filled petting zoo with everyone giving hugs and saying "I'm your BFF." with big hearts and smiley faces.

Its' an ugly world and people out there hate us, not matter what we do or don't do.  We can help them and they'll either like us (England, Germany, Japan, Poland) or fear us (Libya, Russia, France).   It's worked in the past.

A pre-emptive pull-out hasn't worked.  See Germany after WWI and look at the mess that was Afghanistan after the Soviets withdrew.  We basically wiped our hands and walked away after providing the Afghani's with support for years.   That worked out REAL well. 

[Perd Hapley]

IRAQI'S WERE AT YOU FRONT DOOR!!! OH MY GOD RUN!!

Oh, wait, you live in America. Not, Kuwait. America. Please don't tell me you honestly feared an invasion from Iraq?

You're right.  The only way that any nation could be a threat to us is by a full-scale invasion.  I seem to have forgotten about that after something called Sept. 11. 

We cannot afford to invade every country that does something wrong to another.

And we're not doing that, are we? 

we shouldn't be in Iraq or anywhere in the Middle East(unless we are actively perusing known terrorists).

Which is why we're in Iraq.  You'll counter with, "But they weren't there until we invaded!"  Which only points up how nice it is that we were able to distract the enemy into a sandbox where we could mangle them on a daily basis. 


You got anything else?