Osama Bin Laden...

[K Frame]

The concept that someone is a danger to you only if they have an army ready to cross your borders is as pathetically short sighted as it is stupid.

It should be pointed out, YET AGAIN, that German declared war on the United States in World War II, not the other way around, and immediately commenced Operation Drumbeat, unrestricted submarine warfare in American territorial waters.

[Bigjake]

Scout26 said:

Anyone not think that taking out Hitler in say 1936 or 1937 would not have been a good idea       

Of course not! Ron Paul is for non-aggression!!   

[Finch]

Here's the difference: I took that oath.  I was willing to put aside my selfish desires and serve.

My choice not to join the Military is not selfish (I think that is what you are trying to imply). If I felt that this nation was truely in danger, I would be more than happy to serve. But I feel that our current use of the military endangers this country more.

I just refuse to stand by while those who wear the uniform and stand out there to protect you (whether you think their protecting you or not) are denigrated by those who have not served.

Once again, we will have to disagree on this. Tell me how my freedoms are threatened by any foreign entity? While I have great respect for those who have choosen to serve, I must disagree that they are actually protecting me or any other American for that matter. I never woke up and thought "Damn, I hope Saddam doesn't sell off the nuclear weapons we know he doesn't have". Yes, we were attacked by terrorists. Yes, we should go after them to stop it from happening again. But this argument that we need to kill/invade every person/nation that may, one day, do us harm is faulty. We can't afford it, in terms of lives and resources. We have to address known threats.

We knew OBL was a threat, hence Afghansitan. Saddam, yes a bad man, but no threat.

The concept that someone is a danger to you only if they have an army ready to cross your borders is as pathetically short sighted as it is stupid.

And the notion that we need to attack anything that looks at us crosseyed is reckless.

[Dntsycnt]

I always love some good ole military elitism.  People think joining the military somehow entitles them to respect or gives them special knowledge.  Riiiightt....

[CAnnoneer]

People think joining the military somehow entitles them to respect or gives them special knowledge. 

Actually, it does, and it does.

The big-mouth leftist peaceniks are usually green guys still in college, who don't know jack-*expletive deleted*it about life, the universe, and everything, but are full of loud, pompous, and ascerbic opinions, on every subject.

[Dntsycnt]

Reallllllly?

Not everyone joins the military to fight for Peace and Freedom and to protect the wimmen and babies.  Lots of them want glory, power, to be able to kill people, and many do it just because they don't think they have any other options.

And I will grant that military experience gives one special knowledge in that it shows you how to best kill people, follow orders, dig trenches, etc.  (And of course the more advanced fields, I'm not saying war is easy or doesn't take intelligence.)  However, it doesn't suddenly make someone understand the motives and decisions behind war any better, it just means they know what its like to sit in the sand in a country where lots of people hate you and you get shot at, etc.

Sure, a lot of soldiers are out there fighting for what they perceive to be our freedoms and protection, but there are ways to do that other than with a rifle, and many of the people with the rifles aren't fighting for freedom- they're fighting for money and status.

[Bigjake]

Idiocy like that is a privilege of the protected.  You're welcome.

[Dntsycnt]

You're right.  The only way to protect freedom is to join the military, and everyone in the military is there for the noblest of reasons.

I retract everything I've said. 

[Scout26]

Lots of them want glory, power, to be able to kill people, and many do it just because they don't think they have any other options.

Hmmm, I joined because I didn't want to kill anyone (or have anyone get killed).  I believe in deterence.  I enlisted in the Army Reserves in High School and then between my sophmore and junior years got an ROTC scholarship (Yep, carried a full class load, Computer Science + ROTC classes/events at another school and worked full time.)

The US Army in it's infinite wisdom decided that even though I had a CS degree and had put Combat Arms (Cavalry, Armor, Artillery, Infantry, Engineers, Aviation) on my dream sheet, I ended up as MP Officer. 

Most of my troops joined for the following reason:  They wanted to be cops, deputies or state troopers.  If they joined the army they got the following to put on their "I wanna be a cop" application:
1.  Four years of LE experience. (Even though we did ~4-6 weeks of actual Garrison Law Enforcement per year.  The rest of the time we were in the field playing motorized infantry or expendable/replaceable scouts.)
2.  They all took CJ classes either on post or via mail. (most got their Associates, a few even got Bachelor's.)
3.  They got the Veterans Perfernce Points you get when applying for government jobs.

So no, they really didn't think the didn't have "other options".  They were actually pretty smart and had a plan to achieve their goals.

Now yes, there are some people who joined to get away from bad situations.  My first Platoon Sergeant had joined in the mid-60's because a judge told him "Go to War or Go to Jail". 

However, it doesn't suddenly make someone understand the motives and decisions behind war any better, it just means they know what its like to sit in the sand in a country where lots of people hate you and you get shot at, etc.

[Gewehr98]

Well, sports fans, this went south fairly quickly.

I bristle knowing that my fellow GIs and I joined the service for the sake of killing somebody.

I wish somebody would've told me beforehand, I would've gotten busy thumping more folks during my 20+ years active duty. 

Jeebus! What some people's kids say these days.

Put a fork in it - this one's done.