Author Topic: National Healthcare: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors  (Read 12938 times)

roo_ster

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/01/27/nhs127.xml

Gotta love socialized medicine.

What was the old saying?  "The compassion of the IRS, the efficiency of the Post Office, at Pentagon prices."

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Doctors are calling for NHS treatment to be withheld from patients who are too old or who lead unhealthy lives.

Smokers, heavy drinkers, the obese and the elderly should be barred from receiving some operations, according to doctors, with most saying the health service cannot afford to provide free care to everyone.

You can't make this *expletive deleted*it up.

I wonder, are these the same folks who think illegal immigrants ought to be treated for free by taxpayers?
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roo_ster

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doc2rn

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Re: National Healthcare: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2008, 06:12:56 PM »
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The Government announced plans last week to offer fat people cash incentives to diet and exercise as part of a desperate strategy to steer Britain off a course that will otherwise see half the population dangerously overweight by 2050.

If food that was unhealthy wasnt cheaper than fresh fruit and veggies, maybe, obesity would not be an economic problem for the poor. It should be subsidized by the state. I would eat healthier if I could afford it. I did a paper on this last semester, and I kept track of food receipts for a ballanced diet for a month vs fast food for the following month. It showed a 39% increase to eat healthy.

Of course they don't want to treat people, they need to reduce the population of baby boomers so that when they retire there will still be a social service program.

Scout26

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Re: National Healthcare: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2008, 06:13:03 PM »
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"The compassion of the IRS, the efficiency of the Post Office, at Pentagon prices."

I am so stealing this and using it in my next LTTE of the local fish wrap.  There have been several LTTE recently calling for "Single Payer" or "Univerisal Coverage".
 
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Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
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wooderson

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Re: National Healthcare: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2008, 06:31:46 PM »
Post Office efficiency? You mean the better-than-FedEx or UPS service, at prices less than what anyone else in the world pays for basic postal service? The horror, the horror, the horror.

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Smokers, heavy drinkers, the obese and the elderly should be barred from receiving some operations
Wait, "some operations"?

You mean, doctors didn't say "don't treat the old and unhealthy," they said don't make the state pay for some treatments for self-induced conditions? Instead push that onto private care (which would be, uh, an awful lot like the way our entire system works...)

Why, those look almost like two entirely different statements. Fancy that.

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I wonder, are these the same folks who think illegal immigrants ought to be treated for free by taxpayers?
Hard to say whether or not these British doctors hold any firm opinion on illegal immigrants in the US.

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...

...

But you never know.
"The famously genial grin turned into a rictus of senile fury: I was looking at a cruel and stupid lizard."

Bogie

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Re: National Healthcare: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2008, 07:00:52 PM »
I've only had Fedex lose one package, since 1988 or so... and they found it the next day.
 
Can't say that about USPS... Some of that crap is still gone...
 
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Scout26

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Re: National Healthcare: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2008, 07:07:14 PM »
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You mean the better-than-FedEx or UPS service, at prices less than what anyone else in the world pays for basic postal service?


http://cbs2chicago.com/consumer/u.s.postal.2.337340.html

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Residents Sound Off About City's Poor Mail Service
Customers, Mail Carriers, Local Politicians Testify At Congressional Hearing
by Rafael Romo

CHICAGO (CBS) ― Problems run deep with the Post Office in Chicago. Service here is the worst in the nation. But that may be changing.

CBS 2's Rafael Romo explains what happened Thursday that could improve service.

The U.S. Postal Service has hired an additional 206 mail carriers to improve service here in Chicago; but, by their own admission, it is only the first step in solving a big problem of poor service that had to do with culture and accountability.

For David Barlow, opening his mailbox is almost always an adventure.

"What mail am I not getting? Who's getting my mail and what are they doing with it? Are they throwing it in the can or are they putting it back in the mailbox hoping that it might get to the right owner?" Barlow asked.

Fed up with a mail delivery service that is ranked the worst in the nation, he decided to take action.

Today he testified at a congressional hearing along with other unhappy customers, mail carriers, and elected officials.

Newly elected Ald. Robert Fioretti (2nd) said, "Increased postal rates coupled with poor mail delivery service sets the U.S. Postal Service on a course for a train wreck."

U.S. Postmaster General Jack Potter admitted that some managers created the problem by cutting costs.

"They obviously had expectations that were beyond what they were able to achieve and as a result we saw a decline in service performance," Potter said.

Union leaders representing mail clerks and carriers said the cuts have created an environment in which managers put a lot of pressure on them.

More than 140 postal experts from around the country have been deployed to Chicago to revamp operations and systems. But they're still very far from finishing their task.
(? MMVII, CBS Broadcasting Inc. All Rights Reserved.)

Uh, yep that crappy mail service.  With UPS/Fedex/DHL, I've got a tracking number and insurance, with USPS, I get "Sucks to be you.".
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

nico

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Re: National Healthcare: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2008, 07:15:04 PM »
Post Office efficiency? You mean the better-than-FedEx or UPS service, at prices less than what anyone else in the world pays for basic postal service? The horror, the horror, the horror.
that's EXTREMELY debatable

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Quote
I wonder, are these the same folks who think illegal immigrants ought to be treated for free by taxpayers?
Hard to say whether or not these British doctors hold any firm opinion on illegal immigrants in the US.

...

...

...

But you never know.
Last I checked, it was possible to enter to just about any country illegally, and the poster you quoted didn't say anything about the US.  That the second comment on the article is a Brit talking about treating illegals for free seems to imply that it's an issue across the pond too.

GigaBuist

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Re: National Healthcare: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2008, 07:21:06 PM »
Lately my parents have been whining about the local postal service.  They can't seem to get the mail into the right boxes on their street.  This has resulted in a weekly mail exchange with all of the neighbors.

It's a pretty rural road, and everybody has lived in the same houses for about 30 years with very few exceptions.

Recently an elderly neighbor put a zip-tie around her mail box to stop them from delivering mail while she was in Florida.  The postal worker just shoved it all into the mailbox four houses down.

My girlfriend once had her mail delivered covered on blood.  The postal worker cut his hand but didn't bother patching it up.

A few months later she had moved in with me and let her mailbox get too full. Post office stopped delivery and slapped a neon-yellow "VACANT" sign on her mailbox.  The reason they did that is so that mail doesnt pile up and leave a sign that the house isn't occupied.  I don't think they thought their cunning plan all the way through.  When she went to pick up her mail they asked if she had submitted a change of address form yet.  She had the day prior.  They then informed her that she couldn't pick up her mail as it would be forwarded on in about 10 days.  She was pissed.

About the only good USPS story I have was well before I was born in 1980.  Seems my grandpa got a letter delivered to him that was address as:
"Uncle Jack
Allendale Michigan"

It got there.  Even though his name was Robert, not Jack.  I'm not sure how he got that nickname.

Tecumseh

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Re: National Healthcare: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2008, 07:24:24 PM »
The question, for some, is then, do you think healthcare is a right?  I mean if an illegal immigrant comes in with a life threatening injury or sickness would you turn her or him away because they do not have the means to pay?  Does it even have to be an illegal immigrant?  What about a regular person off of the street who is diagnosed with cancer?  Will you turn them away?  How do you look at someone and condemn them?

What about if they look like they are broke and in the ER?  Lets say they have no cash or credit cards on them and they have no money but they were the victim of a car accident.  Do you turn them away?  You cannot be sure they have the money so is it a risk your taking as a doctor or hospital administrator giving someone service they are not able to pay for? 


wooderson

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Re: National Healthcare: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2008, 07:38:09 PM »
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Uh, yep that crappy mail service.  With UPS/Fedex/DHL, I've got a tracking number and insurance, with USPS, I get "Sucks to be you.".
If you pay for any equivalent level of service, you get a tracking number and insurance. Actually, you can get both on lower levels of service than are available through UPS/Fedex/DHL.

In the last couple of years I've shipped a ton of stuff through Ebay - until it gets into ridiculously heavy packages (an amp I sold, etc.), USPS First Class or Priority are faster, cheaper and more convenient than anyone else.

No better way to ship something small and heavy than Flat Rate Priority. Up to 70 pounds in a free box for $9.
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wooderson

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Re: National Healthcare: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2008, 07:39:28 PM »
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Last I checked, it was possible to enter to just about any country illegally, and the poster you quoted didn't say anything about the US.
Except he's talking about 'taxpayers' covering 'illegals.' This is an American issue, often raised as the looming specter of the Great Immigrant Menace etc..

In the UK, taxpayers cover 'everyone.'
"The famously genial grin turned into a rictus of senile fury: I was looking at a cruel and stupid lizard."

SomeKid

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Re: National Healthcare: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2008, 07:49:19 PM »
The question, for some, is then, do you think healthcare is a right?  I mean if an illegal immigrant comes in with a life threatening injury or sickness would you turn her or him away because they do not have the means to pay?  Does it even have to be an illegal immigrant?  What about a regular person off of the street who is diagnosed with cancer?  Will you turn them away?  How do you look at someone and condemn them?

What about if they look like they are broke and in the ER?  Lets say they have no cash or credit cards on them and they have no money but they were the victim of a car accident.  Do you turn them away?  You cannot be sure they have the money so is it a risk your taking as a doctor or hospital administrator giving someone service they are not able to pay for? 


First, health care is NOT a right. If it was, are people who do not live in areas with access to physicians and nurses being denied their rights? Keep in mind, health care is provided by people. We are not slaves, we have the right to fair compensation for our time and expertise. Anyone who thinks health care is a right either supports slavery, or is an idiot. That said, moving on.

If someone shows up at the ER with an emergency, you treat first. Really, for the health care industry to work we pretty much have to keep you alive, so letting you die while we verify if you can pay is just stupid. So, ensure you live first.

However I could turn away non-emergency patients without a second thought. The first day I was in an ER I got flat out sick, not by what I saw, but why they came in. "My baby has the sniffles" "I don't feel good" and the crap goes on...

I expect your next line will be about people who cannot pay. Question: Should I work for free? If the answer is no, because I deserve just compensation, then you agree that people who cannot pay should be turned out. If you think I am a slave who should give away my time and abilities for some lazy slob who has no insurance or money saved for health care, then (insert very very impolite feelings that I have towards you here).

Now, here is where you simply say the government should pay for it. Basically, by saying the gov should pay for healthcare, you say that I, a health care worker, should pay taxes, that  earn through providing health care, so other people can get free health care. Sounds sort of like I am paying for someone else's health care. Like a slave. Oh, you say it would not be like that? The government would set prices, and keep costs down. In other words, the government will determine what I am worth. Like a master determines what a slave is worth.

No matter how you cut it, government is not the solution, it is just more and more problem. Maybe I have read the constitution, and my spirit of freedom is strong. Maybe I have just read too much Heinlein, and have a low tolerance for any form of oppressive idea. But the fact is, government involvement is just plain bad. Its current involvement makes the problem, added participation by the gov will only make it worse.

Man that was a good vent.

Getting back on topic. This is not surprising. The old and those who made their conditions worse are the most expensive patients to treat. A good friend of mine used to work for a local (and large) insurance company. He said something like 50% of all health care costs a person has, are in the last 6 - 12 months of the persons life. So, if you knock out treating old people, you knock out their most expensive part of treatment. On top of that, you shunt health care towards younger people, who tend to work and pay taxes, and will pay taxes after they receive health care. Whereas old people will not. Sort of like a farmer letting worthless crops die, and only replanting good seeds. Isn't it nice when the government plays Master?

wooderson

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Re: National Healthcare: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2008, 08:27:54 PM »
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However I could turn away non-emergency patients without a second thought. The first day I was in an ER I got flat out sick, not by what I saw, but why they came in. "My baby has the sniffles" "I don't feel good" and the crap goes on...

This is horrible policy on all levels.
"My baby has the sniffles" - a cold, something easily treatable, cheaply - gets turned away.
Comes back two weeks later, baby has pneumonia - now grossly expensive and potentially fatal.

Well, done - your fundamentalism has either killed a baby or cost the hospital/taxpayers a great deal of money (given that a parent whose first recourse is the ER won't have the money to foot the bill).
"The famously genial grin turned into a rictus of senile fury: I was looking at a cruel and stupid lizard."

SomeKid

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Re: National Healthcare: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2008, 08:42:48 PM »
Wooderson,

A cold should go to a family physician or FNP whose office is designed to deal with that. Do you know what ER stands for? Emergency Room.

Secondly, you say the hospitals or taxpayers have to foot the bill if she comes back. Why can't the mother you know, work, and pay for the child herself? Does being an unwed minority single mother (assuming the worst scenario) give her special privileges?

Thirdly, and you will jump all over this and wring your hands, but babies die a lot. Ever been in a neonatal intensive care unit (NICU) or a pediatric ICU (PICU)? Check it out sometime. Be thankful for your good health.

Fourthly, if the mother has no desire to pay and is using the ER as a free office, why on earth should the hospital be forced to provide her with it? Are women and children the queens of masters of society, deserving free services? No, of course not. Nurses, physicians, techs, all providers need just compensation for their services. The hospitals are businesses. They cannot give out free services just to appease your bleeding heart unless you like the idea of more hospitals going under. Personally, I would rather pay for health care than have no access at all.

Oh, and fifthly. Colds are caused by a virus. There is no special drug a hospital can give that will magically treat it.

mtnbkr

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Re: National Healthcare: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2008, 02:15:50 AM »
Uh, yep that crappy mail service.  With UPS/Fedex/DHL, I've got a tracking number and insurance, with USPS, I get "Sucks to be you.".

The one and only time I had to use insurance with a shipped package, it was with USPS, they covered it without question.

The only issue I have with USPS is that you can't count on a given level of shipping service to be quite as rapid as they claim.  If it's time critical, you need to go up to the next level.  UPS/FedEx's delivery schedule is what they say it will be and even cheaper on the low end of the scale.

As for the quality of the employees, I've run into some real bozos via UPS and Fed Ex (my BIL works for FedEx, I've heard some horror stories to go along with my personal experience).  Postal Employees, for all their problems, tend to be pretty professional about their job.

Chris

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Re: National Healthcare: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2008, 02:37:41 AM »
Quote
The Government announced plans last week to offer fat people cash incentives to diet and exercise as part of a desperate strategy to steer Britain off a course that will otherwise see half the population dangerously overweight by 2050.

If food that was unhealthy wasnt cheaper than fresh fruit and veggies, maybe, obesity would not be an economic problem for the poor. It should be subsidized by the state. I would eat healthier if I could afford it. I did a paper on this last semester, and I kept track of food receipts for a ballanced diet for a month vs fast food for the following month. It showed a 39% increase to eat healthy.

Of course they don't want to treat people, they need to reduce the population of baby boomers so that when they retire there will still be a social service program.


I love it.  Tax incentives to companies that produce good food.  Higher taxes on truely bad food such as fast food.  Why not, we tax the hell out of cigarettes and booze.
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HankB

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Re: National Healthcare: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2008, 03:54:11 AM »
Lots of topics here begging a comment . . .

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CHICAGO (CBS) ― Problems run deep with the Post Office in Chicago. Service here is the worst in the nation. But that may be changing.
Many years ago, only FFL holders could ship guns, and when they used USPS, they had to put "FIREARM" in 1" letters on the package. My late father told me of two FFL dealers he knew in the Chicago area who, after losing some guns with the required "STEAL ME" label, started sending small (pistol-sized) boxes of scrap metal to one another, heavily insured. Virtually NONE made it through the Chicago post office, and USPS, not wanting to shine a light on their crooked employees, simply kept paying them over . . . and over . . . and over. (Not saying it's right, but I have little doubt it happened.)
 
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. . . the elderly should be barred from receiving some operations,
If an elderly family member perished because they were denied treatment due to rationing based on age . . . the doctor/bureaucrat responsible would not be long for this world.
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I mean if an illegal immigrant comes in with a life threatening injury or sickness would you turn her or him away because they do not have the means to pay?
I have no sympathy for illegal aliens, but since we ARE a humane nation, we ought to provide emergency treatment - and as soon as the illegal is stable enough to travel, back home he goes.
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Iain

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Re: National Healthcare: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2008, 04:38:39 AM »
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Telegrap article
...Ninety-four per cent said that an alcoholic who refused to stop drinking should not be allowed a liver transplant, while one in five said taxpayers should not pay for "social abortions" and fertility treatment...

...One in three said that elderly patients should not be given free treatment if it were unlikely to do them good for long. Half thought that smokers should be denied a heart bypass, while a quarter believed that the obese should be denied hip replacements...

This is the latest evidence of the evils of the NHS?

I doubt one person here thinks 'social abortions' should be paid for by any form of government program, doubt many would support fertility treatment, and that includes me - fertility treatment is expensive, and if I want kids I'll have to use it, and I'll pay.

Organs are in short supply - do they go to unrepentant alcoholics in the US? I doubt any treatment denied to the elderly would be of the palliative, or make life comfortable variety - every system has cost/benefit considerations, except for those who can pay, and they can do that here. No qualification on 'for long' either - do we mean spend ?100,000 for an extra week, or ?10 for an extra hour or ?1m for an extra month? Not sure about smokers and heart bypasses, or the obese and hip replacements  - see my later comments about views of doctors, not NHS policy.

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About one in 10 hospitals already deny some surgery to obese patients and smokers, with restrictions most common in hospitals battling debt.

Managers defend the policies because of the higher risk of complications on the operating table for unfit patients. But critics believe that patients are being denied care simply to save money.

Higher risk of complications, so therefore potentially a bad risk. Bad risks are always going to be avoided, whether it's to save money or mortality stats. I'd expect both considerations come into play in the US and in the UK.

Lastly these are the views of doctors, they are not policy. If these views were collected from a poll of US doctors they would likely not have made this board, and if they had there would have been general agreement, especially on the abortion and fertility, and more than likely with doctors and hospitals not taking on bad risks and so driving up the cost of insurance.

This is a very flimsy stick to try beating anything with.
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roo_ster

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Re: National Healthcare: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2008, 04:46:03 AM »
wooderson:

The USA is not the only country with an illegal alien problem and taxpayers who despise footing the bill for their care.
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roo_ster

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Iain

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Re: National Healthcare: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2008, 05:15:22 AM »
wooderson:

The USA is not the only country with an illegal alien problem and taxpayers who despise footing the bill for their care.

I believe the estimation is around half a million in the UK, of a population of 60 million.

The only reason its an issue here is the usual tabloid stirring and recent case in which a woman who had overstayed her visa and was now dependent on dialysis was deported to somewhere she would not be able to begin to afford the costs of her treatment. Unpleasant dilemma, and has led the usual credulous conclusion jumpers to assume that this a is a problem across the NHS and is bankrupting it. Also known as 'they took our dialysis'.
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wooderson

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Re: National Healthcare: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2008, 05:39:39 AM »
Quote
A cold should go to a family physician or FNP whose office is designed to deal with that. Do you know what ER stands for? Emergency Room.
And a parent who can afford this takes the baby there. A parent who cannot, uses the ER.

Did you miss that part of my post, or just ignore it because it was inconvenient?

Quote
Secondly, you say the hospitals or taxpayers have to foot the bill if she comes back. Why can't the mother you know, work, and pay for the child herself? Does being an unwed minority single mother (assuming the worst scenario) give her special privileges?
(The worst scenario is that an unwed black woman has a child? Uh, ok...)

You're right - the mother should work and pay for the child herself. And to ensure that, we'll take punitive measures against the child -  like refusing to provide care.

Brilliant.

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Thirdly, and you will jump all over this and wring your hands, but babies die a lot. Ever been in a neonatal intensive care unit (NICU) or a pediatric ICU (PICU)? Check it out sometime. Be thankful for your good health.
An absurd statement - babies die, so we're justified in refusing care if a parent cannot pay or chooses a less than ideal care delivery system.

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Fourthly, if the mother has no desire to pay and is using the ER as a free office, why on earth should the hospital be forced to provide her with it?
She's not being provided with care, the child is. Duh.

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Colds are caused by a virus.
Colds are a colloquialism for unidentified upper-respiratory illnesses. You don't know what it is, for sure, until a doctor looks - particularly with infants and children. Hence the desire for care.
"The famously genial grin turned into a rictus of senile fury: I was looking at a cruel and stupid lizard."

K Frame

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Re: National Healthcare: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
« Reply #21 on: January 28, 2008, 06:51:41 AM »
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However I could turn away non-emergency patients without a second thought. The first day I was in an ER I got flat out sick, not by what I saw, but why they came in. "My baby has the sniffles" "I don't feel good" and the crap goes on...

This is horrible policy on all levels.
"My baby has the sniffles" - a cold, something easily treatable, cheaply - gets turned away.
Comes back two weeks later, baby has pneumonia - now grossly expensive and potentially fatal.

Well, done - your fundamentalism has either killed a baby or cost the hospital/taxpayers a great deal of money (given that a parent whose first recourse is the ER won't have the money to foot the bill).

Emergency rooms are just that. For emergencies.

FAR too many people treat the emergency room as if it is their primary care physician's office.

Those people SHOULD be turned away and referred to either a physician or a non-emergency clinic.

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Marvin Dao

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Re: National Healthcare: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
« Reply #22 on: January 28, 2008, 09:23:49 AM »
If food that was unhealthy wasnt cheaper than fresh fruit and veggies, maybe, obesity would not be an economic problem for the poor. It should be subsidized by the state. I would eat healthier if I could afford it. I did a paper on this last semester, and I kept track of food receipts for a ballanced diet for a month vs fast food for the following month. It showed a 39% increase to eat healthy.

You're doing it wrong. It is possible to eat unhealthy for less than eating healthy (ramen noodles at $0.50/day), you're not doing it with fast food. The cost efficiency isn't there. Cheapest I can think of to provide daily calorie limits is 5 McDonald's Double Cheeseburgers (Total: 2250 kcal) at $5.

Even $3/day buys fairly high quality meals from a nutritional standpoint when shopping carefully. Rice is an extremely cost efficient method of providing calories. Beans, tofu, and eggs provide inexpensive proteins. Chicken isn't too bad either. Fresh vegetables are cheap when they're in seasons, and frozen vegetables are cost effective regardless of season. Throw in your choice of seasonings and you're still well under $3. In season fresh fruit can take up the rest of the balance. Bring it up to $5/day and other meats enter the equation along with wider availability of fresh fruit, greater meal variety, and a can of beer or glass of wine. Sure you'll get tired of it, but not as quickly as you'll get tired of 5 double cheeseburgers a day.

I really don't see any economic issue with eating reasonably healthy on a low budget.

Quote from: Mike Irwin
Emergency rooms are just that. For emergencies.

FAR too many people treat the emergency room as if it is their primary care physician's office.

Those people SHOULD be turned away and referred to either a physician or a non-emergency clinic.

A big part of the problem is access.

If I manage to do something stupid on Friday night, nearest time spot to see my PCP is around Wednesday the next week. This is with pretty good insurance. Luckily, there are non-emergency clinics that take my insurance around this area, but that isn't true everywhere. When I was in College Station, no one took the insurance my parents had (large HMO) and the only affordable treatment regardless of type was through the local ER. Stupid? Yep, but that's how it worked out.

The new trends towards retail medical clinics should help out in this respect, but regulations have pretty much hobbled them in Texas.

wooderson

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Re: National Healthcare: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
« Reply #23 on: January 28, 2008, 10:34:56 AM »
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Emergency rooms are just that. For emergencies.
Ideally, yes.

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FAR too many people treat the emergency room as if it is their primary care physician's office.
Why is that? Do they 'choose' to wait for hours on end and receive a multi-thousand dollar bills that will cause them much grief to pay or get out of paying?

Why would they do that?

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Those people SHOULD be turned away and referred to either a physician or a non-emergency clinic.
Yes, because this option doesn't, at all, ignore why so many people turn to the ER. We wouldn't want to get into a sticky issue like that.
"The famously genial grin turned into a rictus of senile fury: I was looking at a cruel and stupid lizard."

MechAg94

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Re: National Healthcare: Don't treat the old and unhealthy, say doctors
« Reply #24 on: January 28, 2008, 12:44:21 PM »
What does it cost to visit a family doctor for the "sniffles" without health insurance?  Or a pediatrician?  It is not thousands.  I bet it is not too expensive.  The sole goal is to confirm it is not something more serious. 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge