AMD vs Intel, or Balog's 'puter goes boom

[Balog]

So after an "unfortunate incident" resulted in my CPU and mobo self-immolating  I'm in the market for a new processor. Everything else seems fine; HD spins up etc. I'm in the process of moving and getting a new job so this is a bad time to be computer-less. I'm ok with getting it online, but I'm also looking at the local Fry's electronics just so I can get it over with.

Before I was running a Pentium D 940 @ 3.2g on a crappy Mach Speed board. I believe this was mine, scroll down to near the bottom.

On ad at Fry's atm are: Athlon X2 BE-2300 w/ ECS mobo, Intel Core 2 duo E6750 w/ Asus mobo, and one that's not online, an Intel E6850 w/ an ECS 945 GCT M/1333 board. Not on sale but in the same price range are AMD A 64 X2 6000 and 6400  cpu's on a variety of Asus, Abit, and MSI boards.

Except the low power 2300 (which I can't find) the Intel 6750 and amd 6400 seem pretty close, but lag behind the 6850. However, I must admit to a lack of understanding over the significance of the benchmark ratings and I don't know anything about the respective motherboards. Can anyone give me some guidance here?

[Bogie]

You are aware that your hard drive likely isn't gonna wanna party with a new computer, except as a #2 drive?
 
You might try hunting down just a replacement motherboard and processor/fan dealirama...
 

[Balog]

You are aware that your hard drive likely isn't gonna wanna party with a new computer, except as a #2 drive?

I was planning on totally reformatting it when I put in the new cpu and motherboard. Why wouldn't that work?
 

You might try hunting down just a replacement motherboard and processor/fan dealirama...
 

Ummm, that's what I'm trying to do. The purpose of the OP was to solicit advice on what processor and motherboard I should buy.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

I'd do the Intel and Asus combo.  I've never had any problems with either of those two manufacturers.  The prices look good.

What exactly caused your old rig to go kablooey?  Whatever fried your old mobo may have also damaged the other components in the machine, especially that hard drive you want to reuse. 

Definitely consider replacing the hard drive while you're at it.  It sounds like you can't risk having any flakey parts in your machine right now.

[Bogie]

Hey, I thought you might be concerned about data/wares on the drive... Last week, while in the middle of passing a kidney stone the size of a buick, I got to spend several hours 'splaining to a less than computer friendly, yet highly aggressive ("Why you break my computer! It's not working!" "It wasn't working BEFORE!" "Oh, right, but IT'S NOT WORKING!!!! And YOU TOUCHED IT!" Last damn time I help someone within shooting distance...), neighbor that no, he isn't going to be able to pull the hard drive out of his 10 year old computer and just stick it in his 6 year old computer, and have everything just show up and work magically...
 
Sigh.
 

[Balog]

The 8 pin secondary power supply to the processor was not connected properly, apparently. I got a "Cmos corrupted" message. I thought it was the Cmos battery and took it in to a shop to have it replaced. They said they couldn't even get it to POST. 

That being said tm, I would like to move to either a larger HD or ideally a raid array. But that's gotta wait til a bit later.

[RocketMan]

Balog, I've done the ASUS/Core 2 Duo thing a time or three.  It works pretty well.  I'd go for that one.
Their price is pretty good, too.

[AmbulanceDriver]

well, not to run against the grain, but I'm *really* fond of the ECS/AMD combination.  I've had one running for about 5 years now, with nary a hiccup...

[Bogie]

Bogie like redundant storage of Really Big files (picture 720dpi for a a 3x4 image.... and I ain't talkin' about inches...).
 
Some of the motherboards offer built-in RAID. Cute. You want an on-card controller, or something you're plugging into via something like an SATA or Fi... oh, heck, I'm feeling southern... Farwar connection. Or USB 2, but it damn well better STAY USB 2... Of course, there's always a nice fast network adapter, and network attached storage. I'm running about 3 terrabytes now, and my next investment is gonna be RAID5...
 

[Balog]

Can anyone help me understand the significance of the benchmarks on here? The 6750 is 260 behind the 6850 but 170 ahead of the AMD x2 6400.

The problem is I can't really put a quantitative measure to those numbers. Is a couple hundred a big improvement in performance? Are AMD really that much slower, and if so do they offer any kind of other positives I'm not aware of?

Also, on motherboards.... ECS, Asus, Abit, MSI..... what's the difference? Are they all roughly comparable? Any I should avoid?

[RocketMan]

Also, on motherboards.... ECS, Asus, Abit, MSI..... what's the difference? Are they all roughly comparable? Any I should avoid?

Most of those motherboards have good reputations.  ECS had quality issues in the recent past that disturbed me, because at one time they were one of my favorite manufacturers.  Hopefully they have gotten them straightened out.

Check out some of the user reviews at Newegg.com.  Many are written by average folks, not uber geeks.  They can be quite valuable in helping you make a decision.

[Firethorn]

The problem is I can't really put a quantitative measure to those numbers. Is a couple hundred a big improvement in performance? Are AMD really that much slower, and if so do they offer any kind of other positives I'm not aware of?

Man, it took me forever to find the CPUs you were talking about!

6850: 1748
6750: 1488
AMD x2 6400: 1306

The best way to look at this is percentage:  the 6850 will be 17% faster than the 6750, and the 6750 will be 14% faster than the AMD chip.  The 6850 will be a third faster(34%) than the AMD chip.  In any case, perusing the site shows that you're looking at the bottom end of the pack, considering that they have the X5472 on the top of the chart with a score of 9,776!

Now, consider the score like the horsepower of a car - more horsepower means more speed, but doubling the HP doesn't necessarily equal double the speed.  In a computer, not only do you have CPU speed, you also have amount and speed of the RAM, HD seek and throughput rate, how much cruft your particular software enviroment has, etc...

CPU speed is still important, so I generally attribute it 50% of a computers performance - thus a 14% difference becomes a 7% difference in real world performance perceptable to a human.  Humans can't really notice anything under 10% on average.  So you'd probably notice the difference between the 6850 and the AMD, but not the difference between the 6750 and either the 6850 or the AMD.  You'll easily notice the speed difference between your old CPU(857), but it won't be twice as fast.  Especially if you keep the old HD, as newer larger capacity drives tend to be faster.

Also, on motherboards.... ECS, Asus, Abit, MSI..... what's the difference? Are they all roughly comparable? Any I should avoid?

I've generally had few problems with the boards, but then, I don't buy enough of them to really have a brand preference.  More important would be the chipset and what you intend to do with it.  If you intend on overclocking the CPU/Video Card/Memory you're going to want a different(more expensive) board.

[Sergeant Bob]

Can anyone help me understand the significance of the benchmarks on here? The 6750 is 260 behind the 6850 but 170 ahead of the AMD x2 6400.

The problem is I can't really put a quantitative measure to those numbers. Is a couple hundred a big improvement in performance? Are AMD really that much slower, and if so do they offer any kind of other positives I'm not aware of?

Also, on motherboards.... ECS, Asus, Abit, MSI..... what's the difference? Are they all roughly comparable? Any I should avoid?

As for the 6400/6750/6850 comparison, the higher the number the better, although 200 or 260 points is not all that significant. If you can get the faster processor for very little extra money, go for it. That said, you can't really go wrong with any of them.
I'm not real up to date on the particular motherboards but, for most people, any of those will work fine. You might want to do a quick search for reviews on the particular mobo's you're interested in.

[AZRedhawk44]

Balog:

Do you know how to boot your 'puter in safe mode?

I'd suggest going with the same general class of processor as you had previously (if previously AMD, stay AMD) and the first thing you do when starting up the new system is to boot in safe mode.

Pull up your device manager and delete EVERYTHING from it.  Reboot the computer.

Let XP (you're on XP, right?) redetect all the hardware.  It'll take half a dozen reboots.  At some point, it'll throw a hissy fit over the license since it thinks it's being pirated due to the different CPU/MoBo/NIC signatures it just detected.  It will ask you to reregister online.  If your XP license is legit, then do it.  They may want you to call a number.  I've done this several times, it isn't a big deal.

This will save you the time involved in reinstalling all your old applications, restoring backups of your favorites/cookies/documents/et.cet.

[Bogie]

Yeah, and horsepower's one thing... Using the power can be another...
 
On Top Gear last night, they had a modded Mercedes that had the traction control go bonkers every time you stepped on the gas... Looked like an ugly situation. If your hard drives, etc., can't keep up with the rest of the system, or you've got a video card that chokes stuff down, or you're using an OS that limits the RAM you can access...
 

[Gewehr98]

Balog, was that the kit computer you got from TigerDirect?

Doesn't sound like the IBM corporate machine you got earlier, and if I remember correctly, the former had been flaky from the get-go... 

[Balog]

Balog, was that the kit computer you got from TigerDirect?

Doesn't sound like the IBM corporate machine you got earlier, and if I remember correctly, the former had been flaky from the get-go... 

Yeah, that's the one. It was connected properly at first, I know that. I guess when I had to reinstall the motherboard about 10 times because of the effing grounding issues it wasn't done properly. My own damn fault.

Man, it took me forever to find the CPUs you were talking about!

Uhh, I put links to each processor in there; just did it so you'd only have to click on the name in the thread. 

[InfidelSerf]

I'd recommend Asus over an ECS board based on my experience working in a retail/wholesale computer parts supply house.
Keeping in mind both had RMA's  The ECSes I would RMA roughly 4out of 10 boards.. Most Asus I would RMA 1 out of 10 boards.
That said ECS made several boards that were solid as a rock assuming you got a good one.
Asus I tend to favor for MB's and Video cards.   Regardless of CPU make.
JMHO

[Paddy]

First, shopping at Fry's is really stupid, given that half their inventory is re-stocked (previously sold and returned) items.

Second, unless you've got an advanced EE degree, you're better off buying from someone who knows what the hell they're doing. 

Hint: HP, Dell, Gateway, IBM, etc.

[Balog]

First, shopping at Fry's is really stupid, given that half their inventory is re-stocked (previously sold and returned) items.

Really? Anyone have any kinda proof of this? The stuff I looked at was in fresh shiny new boxes.

Second, unless you've got an advanced EE degree, you're better off buying from someone who knows what the hell they're doing. 

Hint: HP, Dell, Gateway, IBM, etc.

Ah, that "can do" American attitude. No wonder the boomers are so great!

Hint; I've got everything already cept the cpu and board; I'm not gonna spend x4 what I need to on a whole new system. Too busy paying for your beer with my taxes.

[Paddy]

Too busy paying for your beer VO and Absolut with my taxes.

Yeah, well, thanks.

[Calumus]

Would you be comfortable overclocking a cpu? A mid level, safe overclock on most of the lower end core2duos is around 1 ghz. That's without going nuts or raising the voltage to the chip. Right now I'm running an e4500 @3.3ghz  from a stock speed of 2.2ghz. All I had to do was switch 6 settings in my bios. That's the biggest advantage Intel has over AMD right now. You can only get a 200-300mhz overclock out of an X2 chip before you have to start getting serious with it. If its something you'd be interested in let me know and I'll point you to a walk through, and recommend a mobo for you. Cheers,
Shawn

[roo_ster]

First, shopping at Fry's is really stupid, given that half their inventory is re-stocked (previously sold and returned) items.

Second, unless you've got an advanced EE degree, you're better off buying from someone who knows what the hell they're doing. 

Hint: HP, Dell, Gateway, IBM, etc.

Riley's first contention is not true for the three Fry's in the DFW area.  The relatively few items that are returns/restocked are clearly marked with a ~10% discount.  I usually buy them, and have not had a problem yet.

Riley's second contention is true only in that the employees at Fry's are not that knowledgeable, IME.  It is best to know something about what you want.  Microcenter, OTOH, has relatively knowledgeable employees.  If someone local needs PC hardware, I send them to Microcenter, 9/10 times.

[Balog]

Would you be comfortable overclocking a cpu?
Shawn

You're asking the guy who blew his old processor up if he wants to overclock?    I like your moxey kid.  Seriously tho, I want a system running stably; then I'll worry about upping the go-fastness.

Speaking of Fry's..... Intel Core 2 quad Q6600 and ECS G31T-M for $289. Whatta ya'll think?

[RocketMan]

Speaking of Fry's..... Intel Core 2 quad Q6600 and ECS G31T-M for $289. Whatta ya'll think?

There are only seven user reviews for that motherboard on Newegg's website, but they are mostly positive.  It sounds like a good general purpose motherboard.  Were it me, I'd give it a try at that price.
The Q6600 is a great CPU.  I have one in a video editing machine I built.  Used an ASUS motherboard in that one.