Rule by fear or rule by law?

[GeoJAP]

I'm not trying to stir up something about nothing.  These laws and executive orders are real.  They are not vapor or conspiracy theories, they do in fact exist, as has been documented.  We aren't talking about bigfoot, UFOs or conspiracies, these are real laws.

Like I said, it is very frustrating to me that citizens of this country would even allow them to be passed, when they obviously contradict everything about how we in the USA claim that we conduct our business. 

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

"Like I said, it is very frustrating to me that citizens of this country would even allow them to be passed, when they obviously contradict everything diagree with me about how we in the USA claim that we conduct our business"

fixed it

[GeoJAP]

"Like I said, it is very frustrating to me that citizens of this country would even allow them to be passed, when they obviously contradict everything diagree with me about how we in the USA claim that we conduct our business"

fixed it

Since you excel at fixing and improving the meaning of others' misguided statements, please fix this man's foolish statement, as you seem to disagree with him: "Those who would trade in their freedom for their protection deserve neither." -- Ben Franklin

[Manedwolf]

"Like I said, it is very frustrating to me that citizens of this country would even allow them to be passed, when they obviously contradict everything diagree with me about how we in the USA claim that we conduct our business"

fixed it

Since you excel at fixing and improving the meaning of others' misguided statements, please fix this man's foolish statement, as you seem to disagree with him: "Those who would trade in their freedom for their protection deserve neither." -- Ben Franklin

Sure. Because FRANKLIN DID NOT SAY THAT in that manner or context. Especially not with that grammatical style, which has nothing to do with 18th century grammar forms. See below for what he might have actually said in the Poor Richard's Almanack.

If he in fact wrote anything similar, it was "Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power."

Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

    * This statement was used as a motto on the title page of An Historical Review of the Constitution and Government of Pennsylvania. (1759) which was attributed to Franklin in the edition of 1812, but in a letter of September 27, 1760 to David Hume, he states that he published this book and denies that he wrote it, other than a few remarks that were credited to the Pennsylvania Assembly, in which he served. The phrase itself was first used in a letter from that Assembly dated November 11, 1755 to the Governor of Pennsylvania. An article on the origins of this statement here includes a scan that indicates the original typography of the 1759 document, which uses an archaic form of "s": "Thoſe who would give up Essential Liberty to purchaſe a little Temporary Safety, deſerve neither Liberty nor Safety." Researchers now believe that a fellow diplomat by the name of Richard Jackson is the primary author of the book. With the information thus far available the issue of authorship of the statement is not yet definitely resolved, but the evidence indicates it was very likely Franklin, who in the Poor Richard's Almanack of 1738 is known to have written a similar proverb: "Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power."

[GeoJAP]

Alrighty, duly noted.  I'm sure we're all on the same team here and I respect any differences we have.  I think I've said enough on the subject.

[The Rabbi]

Alrighty, duly noted.  I'm sure we're all on the same team here and I respect any differences we have.  I think I've said enough on the subject. I've been shown to know zilch-nada about what I'm posting.

Fixed it for ya.

[Paddy]

As usual, fistful is the only one engaging the substance of the issues.  The rest of the hivemind repeats the same tired vitriol.

And you wonder why your failed political philosophy is passing into the ash heap of history?

[Perd Hapley]

Fistful, don't play semantics.  Spy, covert operative, CIA overseas employee, whatever, labeling it a different way does not change what actually happened.  Plame was a "spy" and she was outed by Cheney and Co.  That is treason. 

Wow.  Your word-games are quite obvious.  An "overseas employee" is not a spy.  And if treason was committed, was anyone even charged with treason?  Not that I recall.  Certainly no one was convicted of treason.  The prosecutor did not manage to even charge anyone (and that's charge, not convict) with revealing classified information, or with any law relating to national security secrets.  The only indictments were on matters like perjury and obstruction of justice.  And these only happened in the course of the investigation, long after the "leak." 

Get your facts straight. 

[The Rabbi]

Actually the Constitution defines treason.  And whatever anyone in the Admin did, it sure didnt meet that standard.
Just one more example of the hyperventilating "Bush=Hitler" crowd's tenuous grasp on reality.  Just like saying habeas corpus has been suspended.  Or any of the other illiteracies posted.

[GeoJAP]

Wow.  Your word-games are quite obvious.  An "overseas employee" is not a spy.  And if treason was committed, was anyone even charged with treason?  Not that I recall.  Certainly no one was convicted of treason.  The prosecutor did not manage to even charge anyone (and that's charge, not convict) with revealing classified information, or with any law relating to national security secrets.  The only indictments were on matters like perjury and obstruction of justice.  And these only happened in the course of the investigation, long after the "leak." 

Get your facts straight. 

Get your logic straight.  Having committed a crime is not reflexive with being charged with a crime.  In fact, when you are really powerful in this country, it is almost never the same.

[GeoJAP]

Actually the Constitution defines treason.  And whatever anyone in the Admin did, it sure didnt meet that standard.
Just one more example of the hyperventilating "Bush=Hitler" crowd's tenuous grasp on reality.  Just like saying habeas corpus has been suspended.  Or any of the other illiteracies posted.

I've often wondered how unthinking automatons who habitually spout unthinking rhetoric manage with modern life.  But I see now it's possible somehow.  Amazing.   

[Perd Hapley]

Get your logic straight.  Having committed a crime is not reflexive with being charged with a crime.  In fact, when you are really powerful in this country, it is almost never the same. 

So "logic" means that you believe in things for which no evidence has presented itself? 

How do you manage with modern life?  By ridiculing people with ten times the intelligence and education that you possess?  (That is, the Rabbi.)  OK, OK, I don't know your level of education, so maybe I'm going overboard.  But if you imagine that he's an unthinking automaton...  Well, let's just say that you're again believing against the evidence. 

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

hey guys all we gotta do is link step with geojap and we'll become enlightened. leave our automaton lives behind. must be a scientologist to be so enlightened

[The Rabbi]

Actually the Constitution defines treason.  And whatever anyone in the Admin did, it sure didnt meet that standard.
Just one more example of the hyperventilating "Bush=Hitler" crowd's tenuous grasp on reality.  Just like saying habeas corpus has been suspended.  Or any of the other illiteracies posted.

I've often wondered how unthinking automatons who habitually spout unthinking rhetoric manage with modern life.  But I see now it's possible somehow.  Amazing.   

They typically get jobs in either higher ed or with the Democratic Party.

[GeoJAP]

How do you manage with modern life?  By ridiculing people with ten times the intelligence and education that you possess?  (That is, the Rabbi.)  OK, OK, I don't know your level of education, so maybe I'm going overboard.  But if you imagine that he's an unthinking automaton...  Well, let's just say that you're again believing against the evidence. 

Again, your logic is flawed.  Intelligence has nothing to do with the amount of education someone has.  And yes, he (and many others in this thread) used "points" (if you can call it that) which are absurd. 

So I'm supposedly a Scientologist now?  In debate that is called demonization and name-calling; it's what 4th graders do on the play ground.  It's juvenile.

So "logic" means that you believe in things for which no evidence has presented itself? 

I (and RileyMC before I could post) have presented documentation for every single one of my points.  What are you still wanting?


You guys are like a pack of jabbering hyenas.  How many people have you chased off who didn't step right into line and agree with your ideologies?

[GeoJAP]

They typically get jobs in either higher ed or with the Democratic Party.

<RefereeBlowsWhistle />

Generalization, trivialization and stereotyping.  -3 points.

[The Rabbi]

They typically get jobs in either higher ed or with the Democratic Party.

<RefereeBlowsWhistle />

Generalization, trivialization and stereotyping.  -3 points.

Either that or they are unemployed and go on websites and spouted unsupported generalities until they are chased off by the coherent.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

substantiation for every single one of your claims?  does the word credibility mean anything to you?

"Quote
7. Finally, Bush's famous quote, "What is it with you people? The Constitution is just A PIECE OF PAPER."

Apparently unsubstantiated
http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/did_president_bush_call_the_constitution_a.html"

and then you owned up to it  kinda a few posts later   but i guess you just forgot
  and then there is this priceless couple bits that bolster your credibility even more

I've often wondered how unthinking automatons who habitually spout unthinking rhetoric manage with modern life.  But I see now it's possible somehow.  Amazing.  

followed by the simpering
" In debate that is called demonization and name-calling; it's what 4th graders do on the play ground.  It's juvenile."


where i come from thats known as pussilanimous  although we sometimes abreviate it

[GeoJAP]

substantiation for every single one of your claims?  does the word credibility mean anything to you?

"Quote
7. Finally, Bush's famous quote, "What is it with you people? The Constitution is just A PIECE OF PAPER."

You didn't read what I wrote above, did you?  I retracted that.  What about the other six?  Are you ignoring them?  Pretty shoddy work on your part, wouldn't you say?

where i come from thats known as pussilanimous  although we sometimes abreviate it

That's a pretty big word for someone who is challenged by capital letters, periods, commas and the word "abbreviate".

[GeoJAP]

Either that or they are unemployed and go on websites and spouted unsupported generalities until they are chased off by the coherent.

More assumptions, and an unwarranted superiority complex. 

Who exactly are you saying is unemployed here?  And what does that have to do with facts as presented?  That is called misdirection.  And what is coherent about your obviously atrocious debate skills?

Seriously, you guys are like the Three Stooges of debate.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

good of you to come down to set us straight though from your depth of experience.  real white of ya....

[The Rabbi]

Either that or they are unemployed and go on websites and spouted unsupported generalities until they are chased off by the coherent.

More assumptions, and an unwarranted superiority complex. 

Who exactly are you saying is unemployed here?  And what does that have to do with facts as presented?  That is called misdirection.  And what is coherent about your obviously atrocious debate skills?

Seriously, you guys are like the Three Stooges of debate.

Actually based on the quality of your arguments (pitiful) and the quality of your sources (laughable), and the quality of your ability to read and analyze I think I am on strong ground in feeling superior.  That isn't saying much, of course.
You have taken one plus one and gotten eleven.
The writ of habeas corpus has not been suspended.  Can you find one presidential directive, one congressional action, one anything that suspends the writ of habeas corpus?  Do you even know what it is?
Do you know where treason is defined in the Constitution?  What possible action on anyone's part in this admin rises to that level?
What evidence do you have that Scooter Libby was the "fall guy" for Cheney?  What do you know that the special prosecutor did not?
You take one fact out of context and proceed to twist it into unrecognizability.  And then you claim that your arguments are based on fact.

[GeoJAP]

good of you to come down to set us straight though from your depth of experience.  real white of ya....

Racism.  Now I'm beginning to understand what I'm dealing with.

[The Rabbi]

good of you to come down to set us straight though from your depth of experience.  real white of ya....

Racism.  Now I'm beginning to understand what I'm dealing with.

Yes, we are all racists here.  And bigots.  And anti-semites.
Now get out.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

good of you to come down to set us straight though from your depth of experience.  real white of ya....

Racism.  Now I'm beginning to understand what I'm dealing with.

i think you are mistaken even more than usual. but you are correct in guessing about my racism..... but i strongly suspect you misintepret my meaning when i used "real white of ya"   but thats good if nothing else you can claim consistency