Author Topic: oh no! immigration reality hurts  (Read 37864 times)

The Rabbi

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Re: oh no! immigration reallity hurts
« Reply #75 on: March 05, 2008, 05:40:36 AM »
Okay, so how many of them want to be legal immigrants?  Then they become subject to minimum wage laws, taxes, and all the other things that make it profitable for big business for them to be illegals in the first place?
And no, I don't support just changing the law to give them a pass.   What are we going to do when the next 14 million come streaming across the border?   Just give them a pass, too? 


"Cui Bono"??

Do you honestly not understand the concept of changing immigration laws?

And if 14 million come streaming across the border, why is that a problem?  Do you see people as liabilities or as resources?
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Jamisjockey

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Re: oh no! immigration reallity hurts
« Reply #76 on: March 05, 2008, 07:21:38 AM »
Okay, so how many of them want to be legal immigrants?  Then they become subject to minimum wage laws, taxes, and all the other things that make it profitable for big business for them to be illegals in the first place?
And no, I don't support just changing the law to give them a pass.   What are we going to do when the next 14 million come streaming across the border?   Just give them a pass, too? 


"Cui Bono"??

Do you honestly not understand the concept of changing immigration laws?

And if 14 million come streaming across the border, why is that a problem?  Do you see people as liabilities or as resources?

Oh I understand the concept.  I just think that giving the current lawbreakers a pass by changing the law is nuts. 
Especially since there are only two reasons that the elite ruling class wants to change the immigration laws:
The Democrats want new voters.
The Republicans want new low income employees.


Manedwolf,
Amen.
JD

 The price of a lottery ticket seems to be the maximum most folks are willing to risk toward the dream of becoming a one-percenter. “Robert Hollis”

The Rabbi

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Re: oh no! immigration reallity hurts
« Reply #77 on: March 05, 2008, 09:15:01 AM »
Okay, so how many of them want to be legal immigrants?  Then they become subject to minimum wage laws, taxes, and all the other things that make it profitable for big business for them to be illegals in the first place?
And no, I don't support just changing the law to give them a pass.   What are we going to do when the next 14 million come streaming across the border?   Just give them a pass, too? 


"Cui Bono"??

Do you honestly not understand the concept of changing immigration laws?

And if 14 million come streaming across the border, why is that a problem?  Do you see people as liabilities or as resources?

Oh I understand the concept.  I just think that giving the current lawbreakers a pass by changing the law is nuts. 
Especially since there are only two reasons that the elite ruling class wants to change the immigration laws:
The Democrats want new voters.
The Republicans want new low income employees.


Manedwolf,
Amen.


What is this "elite ruling class"?  Who are these people?  I want names.
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Paddy

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Re: oh no! immigration reallity hurts
« Reply #78 on: March 05, 2008, 09:21:41 AM »
Quote
What is this "elite ruling class"?  Who are these people?  I want names.

Politicians, their staffs, high level government bureaucrats, and the corporate overlords who own them.  You can look up the names yourself.  Start with 'U.S. Congress members' then move on to 'Fortune 500 executives'.

The Rabbi

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Re: oh no! immigration reallity hurts
« Reply #79 on: March 05, 2008, 12:56:40 PM »
Quote
What is this "elite ruling class"?  Who are these people?  I want names.

Politicians, their staffs, high level government bureaucrats, and the corporate overlords who own them.  You can look up the names yourself.  Start with 'U.S. Congress members' then move on to 'Fortune 500 executives'.
So you could name, what, a thousand people?  And they have managed to stay in power despite the wishes of the other 350 million?

Someone has been drinking the Kool Aid of class warfare again.
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Jamisjockey

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Re: oh no! immigration reallity hurts
« Reply #80 on: March 05, 2008, 02:38:52 PM »
Quote
What is this "elite ruling class"?  Who are these people?  I want names.

Politicians, their staffs, high level government bureaucrats, and the corporate overlords who own them.  You can look up the names yourself.  Start with 'U.S. Congress members' then move on to 'Fortune 500 executives'.

Thanks.  Saved me the trouble.   grin

Quote
So you could name, what, a thousand people?  And they have managed to stay in power despite the wishes of the other 350 million?

Someone has been drinking the Kool Aid of class warfare again.

Someone's been drinking the "democratic republic" kool aid again.
JD

 The price of a lottery ticket seems to be the maximum most folks are willing to risk toward the dream of becoming a one-percenter. “Robert Hollis”

The Rabbi

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Re: oh no! immigration reallity hurts
« Reply #81 on: March 05, 2008, 04:54:59 PM »
Quote
What is this "elite ruling class"?  Who are these people?  I want names.

Politicians, their staffs, high level government bureaucrats, and the corporate overlords who own them.  You can look up the names yourself.  Start with 'U.S. Congress members' then move on to 'Fortune 500 executives'.

Thanks.  Saved me the trouble.   grin

Quote
So you could name, what, a thousand people?  And they have managed to stay in power despite the wishes of the other 350 million?

Someone has been drinking the Kool Aid of class warfare again.

Someone's been drinking the "democratic republic" kool aid again.


JamisJockey, it must be tough going through life poor and Black.
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Jamisjockey

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Re: oh no! immigration reallity hurts
« Reply #82 on: March 05, 2008, 05:25:04 PM »
I've been poor.  I have black friends.  Does that count?

I give. 
I don't think I understand you nor your politics, and I feel like I've been in a shouting match with Cindy Sheehan.
Good luck with turning Amerika in North Jaurez.
JD

 The price of a lottery ticket seems to be the maximum most folks are willing to risk toward the dream of becoming a one-percenter. “Robert Hollis”

christopher

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Re: oh no! immigration reallity hurts
« Reply #83 on: March 05, 2008, 05:36:20 PM »

NEVER   FORGET...

On September 11, 2001, the willful negligence of federal, state, and local politicians aided in the murder of 3000 people. These murders were the foreseeable, inevitable result of decisions made by Presidents and Congresses beginning in the 1960s. They dismantled procedures that screened out dangerous aliens attempting to get visas while masquerading as students, tourists, and business travelers; and concurrently, to open US borders to millions of illegal aliens.

ALL nineteen of the 9/11 terrorists were given entry visas by the State Department despite laws that barred all of them.

In disregarding the law, bureaucrats merely obeyed the wishes of politicians who in turn bowed to lobbying and campaign contributions by the travel and education industries. They wanted ever increasing numbers of aliens to fill more airplane seats, amusement parks, hotels, and college and university classrooms.


There were profits to make and political careers to build by making it easy for any alien to get a visa, and neither the profiteers nor the politicians cared if some visitors were terrorists and criminals.

Meanwhile, employers such as beef and poultry processors, contractors, etc., discovered that the worker protections of the New Deal could be evaded and profits increased if American labor was replaced by cheap foreign workers, both legal and illegal.

Presidents and Congresses responded to their campaign donations by stripping Americas borders of personnel needed to keep out illegals and ending prosecutions of employers of illegals. State and city politicians joined in by giving drivers licenses, subsidized housing, and free medical care to illegals, and refusing to report them to the INS.

By 2001, the result of these political decisions was a population of over 10 million illegals and a culture of absolute lawlessness.

Thus, Al Qaedas planners knew the U.S. would grant visas to their agents, and that once in the U.S. the terrorists could blend in with the millions of illegals, free from fear of discovery; free to get drivers licenses, open bank accounts; free to finance, plan, and rehearse their mass murder; free, with U.S.-issued drivers licenses as valid ID, to board planes they would use to murder our loved ones.

All this freedom was granted them, wrongfully but knowingly, by American politicians in order to get support from those who profit from open borders. This must stop.

- Peter Gadiel, J.D., father of James Gadiel who was lost in the World Trade Center Disaster.
Peter is now a Board Member of 9/11 Families for a Secure America www.911fsa.org

Institutionalizing illegal immigration creates a mindset in people that anything goes in the U.S. It creates a new subculture, with a sequela of social ills. - Patrick Ortega, News and Public-affairs Director of Radio Nueva Vida in southern California

In a statewide poll more Californians named crime as the most serious problem facing the state than any other issue, including education. With reason. California crime rates rose 3.2 percent in 2005 and homicides rose more than 4 percent. Robberies rose 5.2 percent and aggravated assaults by 2.6 percent. Many counties saw even more dramatic increases.

While experts differ on the causes of crime rate increases in our state, much of the evidence points to growing population densities and increasing poverty and unemployment. In many ways, we are importing danger when we leave our borders open to whoever wants to enter, and when we tolerate lawbreaking at the border.

In Los Angeles, 95 percent of all outstanding warrants for homicide (which total 1,200 to 1,500) are for illegal aliens. Up to two-thirds of all fugitive felony warrants (17,000) are also for illegal aliens. Illegal aliens comprise 75 percent of L.A.s Most Wanted list.

By the end of 2005, the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitations inmate count had risen to 195 percent of the prison systems capacity. Nearly 25 percent of all inmates in California detention centers are Mexican illegal aliens. Currently, many are released early due to overcrowding, even felons.

Over the last 20 years, prison populations have surged in every state in the countrydoubling, and then doubling again. The United States now has more than two million people incarcerated. That's more than ever before, and more than any other country.


9/11  Families  for  a  Secure  America  www.911fsa.org

The  American  Cause  www.theamericancause.org

The  American  Conservative  www.amconmag.com

American  Engineering  Association  www.aea.org

Americans  for  Better  Immigration  www.betterimmigration.com

American  Immigration  Control  Foundation  www.aicfoundation.com

American  Outlook  www.americanoutlook.org

American  Patrol  www.americanpatrol.com

American  Resistance  www.theamericanresistance.com

The  Terry  Anderson  Show  www.theterryandersonshow.com

American  Worker  www.americanworker.org





George  Borjas  www.borjas.com

Patrick  J.  Buchanan  www.buchanan.org

California  Coalition  for  Immigration  Reform  www.ccir.net

Californians  for  Population  Stabilization  www.capsweb.org

Carrying  Capacity  Network  www.carryingcapacity.org

Center  for  American  Unity  www.cfau.org 

Center  for  Immigration  Studies  www.cis.org 

Coalition  for  the  Future  American  Worker  www.americanworker.org





Deport  Aliens  www.deportaliens.com

Diversity  Alliance  for  a  Sustainable  America  www.diversityalliance.org

Eco  Future  www.ecofuture.org

English  First  www.englishfirst.org

Escaping  Justice  www.escapingjustice.com

F.A.I.R.  www.fairus.org

Don  Feder  www.donfeder.com

For  The  Cause  www.forthecause.us

Otis  L,  Graham  Jr.  www.otisgraham.com

N.I.V.  Info.  www.zazona.com

H1B  Info.  www.h1b.info

Hans  Hoppe  www.hanshoppe.com

Hire  American  Citizens  www.hireamericancitizens.org

Hudson  Institute  www.hudson.org





IEEE-USA  www.ieeeusa.org

Illegal  Immigration  Boycott  www.millerboycott.com

Immigration  Counters  www.immigrationcounters.com

Immigration  Watch  (Canada)  www.immigrationwatchcanada.org

On  Power  www.onpower.org

Issues  &  Views  www.issues-views.com

William  J.  Olson  www.lawandfreedom.com

Legal  American  Folks  www.legalamericanfolks.com

American  Immigration  Lawyers  www.lyrelyrepantzandfier.com

Michelle  Malkin  www.michellemalkin.com

Midwest  Coalition  to  Reduce  Immigration  www.immigrationreform.org

Migration  Dialogue  www.migrationucdavis.edu

Nevada  Action  Coalition  www.unitetofight.org

Numbers  USA  www.numbersusa.com

Oregonians  for  Immigration  Reform  www.oregonir.org

Predatory  Aliens  www.predatoryaliens.com

Pro  English  www.proenglish.org 



Save  Our  State  www.saveourstate.org

Secured  Borders  U.S.A.  www.securedbordersusa.com

Support  U.S.  Population  Stabilization  www.susps.org

Sobran's  www.sobran.com

Southeastern  Legal  Foundation  www.southeasternlegal.org

Utahns  for  Immigration  Reform  &  Enforcement  www.ufire.net

V  Dare  www.vdare.com

Wake  Up  America  www.wakeupamericausa






 

The Rabbi

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Re: oh no! immigration reallity hurts
« Reply #84 on: March 05, 2008, 05:41:13 PM »
I've been poor.  I have black friends.  Does that count?

I give. 
I don't think I understand you nor your politics, and I feel like I've been in a shouting match with Cindy Sheehan.
Good luck with turning Amerika in North Jaurez.

No, I didnt think you would.
Thanks for playing.  Don't let those pesky facts get in the way of your true-blue beliefs.  Nighty night.
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Paddy

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Re: oh no! immigration reallity hurts
« Reply #85 on: March 05, 2008, 05:50:54 PM »
Quote
I don't think I understand you nor your politics, and I feel like I've been in a shouting match with Cindy Sheehan.

I think I can help.  Rabbi is largely motivated by his warm hearted humanitarianism.  He wants to share the great wealth of our nation with the poor, disenfranchised, illiterate Mexican peasants.  That's all there is to it.  Along with a tiny bit of the usual Jewish shuld. 




The Rabbi

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Re: oh no! immigration reallity hurts
« Reply #86 on: March 05, 2008, 05:53:44 PM »
Quote
I don't think I understand you nor your politics, and I feel like I've been in a shouting match with Cindy Sheehan.

I think I can help.  Rabbi is largely motivated by his warm hearted humanitarianism.  He wants to share the great wealth of our nation with the poor, disenfranchised, illiterate Mexican peasants.  That's all there is to it.  Along with a tiny bit of the usual Jewish shuld. 


No.  Typically you've missed the entire point.  Not surprising really.
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Paddy

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Re: oh no! immigration reallity hurts
« Reply #87 on: March 05, 2008, 05:59:09 PM »
Au contraire my good man.  Tis not I who's 'missed the point'.   Allow me to spell it out.  Ready?  Here it comes.........



 laugh

Hawkmoon

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Re: oh no! immigration reallity hurts
« Reply #88 on: March 05, 2008, 07:15:53 PM »
And if 14 million come streaming across the border, why is that a problem?  Do you see people as liabilities or as resources?
Are you asking about people who are here illegally, taking jobs that are needed by people who are here legally, absorbing money from our economy and sending to other countries while taking advantage of our health care and educational systems? THOSE people?

I'd say the answer has to be "liabilities." No other answer makes any sense whatsoever.
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
100% Politically Incorrect by Design

The Rabbi

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Re: oh no! immigration reallity hurts
« Reply #89 on: March 06, 2008, 01:53:43 AM »
And if 14 million come streaming across the border, why is that a problem?  Do you see people as liabilities or as resources?
Are you asking about people who are here illegally, taking jobs that are needed by people who are here legally, absorbing money from our economy and sending to other countries while taking advantage of our health care and educational systems? THOSE people?

I'd say the answer has to be "liabilities." No other answer makes any sense whatsoever.
Ah, I see the problem.
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Glock Glockler

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Re: oh no! immigration reallity hurts
« Reply #90 on: March 07, 2008, 06:39:33 AM »
Do you see people as liabilities or as resources?

Why couldn't they be both?

keeleon

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Re: oh no! immigration reallity hurts
« Reply #91 on: March 07, 2008, 01:32:35 PM »
Quote
And if 14 million come streaming across the border, why is that a problem?  Do you see people as liabilities or as resources?

I don't see people in general as one or the other.  But I do see, specifically, the immigrants who cross our borders ILLEGALLY and circumvent our laws by getting ILLEGAL identification, and stealing SS numbers to acquire free benefits that they do not deserve ILLEGALLY as a liability, yes.  I do believe that a decent number of those 14 million people are here to work hard and do something to better themselves, and want their children to learn english and become successful.  Unfortunately there is also an equal number of them that commit many crimes, drain our resources, and steal our tax dollars.  The point is, that NONE of them should be here.  By all means make it easy to become a citizen, but you still have to through the process. 

You can be the best driver in the world, but if you didn't feel like going through the (not very difficult) process of getting a driver's license, you are driving ILLEGALLY, and will be treated as such.  Do you disagree with this?  You probably feel that no one should need to have a license to drive, just like you feel that guns should be completly unlicensed and unregulated.  If so, then that is your opinion, which is fine, but THAT is where the distinction is, not that you have a soft spot for ILLEGAL aliens.  And if so, you should present your case in that manner, and not specifically in defense of that one group, because that is the worst stance to take "can't we all just get along?" on.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: oh no! immigration reallity hurts
« Reply #92 on: March 07, 2008, 02:03:11 PM »
Unfortunately there is also an equal number of them that commit many crimes


really? can you substantiate that? and no sturmfront stats please  it gets boring

keeleon

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Re: oh no! immigration reallity hurts
« Reply #93 on: March 07, 2008, 02:48:34 PM »
Quote
Unfortunately there is also an equal number of them that commit many crimes

Well, for starters they are ALL at least committing one crime.  No I can't substantiate that with statistics.  See funny thing about people stealing SS numbers to "blend in" with society, it's very hard to pinpoint exactly how many of them there are unless they are caught.  Kind of like I can't come up with statistics showing how many crimes are prevented because of legal CCW.  Several hospitals in the SoCal area have had to close because people were not paying their bills.  They were required to help people regardless of their citizenship or insurance.  I'm sure you could agree that a great many of those people were not legal US citizens, but how are we to know, since they weren't required to prove it.  I work in an elementary school that has to print every paper in spanish because 20% of the students  and their families don't speak english.  Do you think this is because of a sudden influx of LEGAL immigrants that just haven't assimilated yet?  Or is it possibly a large number of people that are here illegally consuming our tax dollars by putting their children in our schools?

You are using the "aethiesm by empirical data" theory here, which doesn't work.  Facts cannot be proven, they can only be disproven.  Something is  fact only as long as it remains disproven.  So technically, the burden is on you to show me how these people are NOT breaking the law, and being a burden on our society.

Jamisjockey

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Re: oh no! immigration reallity hurts
« Reply #94 on: March 07, 2008, 03:53:00 PM »
Forget stormfront or the cato institute.


http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080307/unemployment_rate_ahead_of_the_bell.html?.v=1

There were 351,000 NEW unemployment claims last week.  But yeah, lets welcome 14million more mouths to the table to feed....
 rolleyes
JD

 The price of a lottery ticket seems to be the maximum most folks are willing to risk toward the dream of becoming a one-percenter. “Robert Hollis”

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: oh no! immigration reallity hurts
« Reply #95 on: March 07, 2008, 03:57:02 PM »
On Thursday, the department said new applications for unemployment benefits fell by 24,000 to 351,000 last week. The results were better than analysts expected, but did little to ease concerns of a weakening job market amid an overall slowdown. The government's four-week moving average of new claims, which smooths out week-to-week fluctuations, fell by 1,500 to 359,500.

how were you interpreting the word fell  and the phrase better than analysts expect

Jamisjockey

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Re: oh no! immigration reallity hurts
« Reply #96 on: March 07, 2008, 04:04:03 PM »
Not part of my complaint.   Not sure how we can tolerate illegal immigration when we have that many people on unemployment.  Jis sayin.
JD

 The price of a lottery ticket seems to be the maximum most folks are willing to risk toward the dream of becoming a one-percenter. “Robert Hollis”

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: oh no! immigration reallity hurts
« Reply #97 on: March 07, 2008, 04:08:41 PM »
5%   thats a pretty good number. and consider the big slowdown in building and its trickle down effect its not bad at all.  you read where the council where you live figure the cost of their new ordinance has already doubled?  and they haven't started enforcing it yet

seeker_two

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Re: oh no! immigration reallity hurts
« Reply #98 on: March 07, 2008, 04:37:57 PM »
Plus, remember that the job creation/job loss stats don't take into account the types of jobs. Losing five hundred skilled manufacturing jobs and creating five hundred waiter/waitress jobs is considered break-even in those stats......
Impressed yet befogged, they grasped at his vivid leading phrases, seeing only their surface meaning, and missing the deeper current of his thought.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: oh no! immigration reallity hurts
« Reply #99 on: March 08, 2008, 09:08:05 AM »
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/08/AR2008030801032.html?hpid=topnews
By Bill Turque
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, March 9, 2008; Page C01

The four-bedroom, 1950s rambler on Hanover Avenue in Springfield was an illegal boardinghouse, neighbors complained in February 2007. Some called it the "Hanover Hotel," a home with too many people, too much noise and a lot of cars.

County inspectors, under pressure from residents and elected officials to deal with a growing number of cases of residential overcrowding, found that the basement had been improperly divided into four rooms and that the house was set up for as many as 15 occupants.

They cited the owner, Elsa DeLeon, for a series of code violations and ordered her to bring the property into compliance. DeLeon, a Honduran immigrant, told The Washington Post at the time that only eight people lived there, all family members who were needed to help make the mortgage on the house she bought for $550,000 in 2006.

By May, it was in foreclosure, sold to Deutsche Bank National Trust Co. of Kansas City for $120,600, according to county records. The house has been vacant for months; DeLeon could not be located to comment. It will go up for auction Sunday, along with hundreds of other foreclosed properties, at the Washington Convention Center. The starting price is set at $169,000 -- less than half the value of surrounding homes.

This is not what Fairfax County officials had in mind when they started cracking down on overcrowding. The goal was to restore stability to older neighborhoods where homes had been rented to immigrant laborers or purchased by extended immigrant families that pooled their resources in a region of premium housing prices.

Although the hard line has produced results, it has also yielded unintended consequences. In such instances as Hanover Avenue, one perceived blight has essentially been replaced by another: an overcrowded house for one that is vacant and in foreclosure.

No one is suggesting that more aggressive county enforcement, including the "Enhanced Code Enforcement Strike Team" begun last June, is the sole reason for the more than 1,800 bank-owned properties on the market in Fairfax. They are part of a national surge in foreclosures fueled by a flagging economy and the collapse of the subprime mortgage sector.

But on a new color-coded map created by the county to plot foreclosures in Fairfax from January 2007 though the end of last month, two bright orange spots dominate. Both also happen to be the focus of intensive efforts to curb overcrowding: the Springfield neighborhoods that include the Hanover Avenue house, and portions of Herndon. In Herndon's case, the regulatory push has been led by the town government, which has instituted multiple policies aimed at making the community less hospitable to illegal immigrants.

No hard numbers are available to quantify the correlation between overcrowding enforcement and foreclosures. But Supervisor Jeff C. McKay (D-Lee) said the evidence he has seen leaves him with little doubt. Owners unable to subsidize their mortgage payments with illegal numbers of occupants have been unable to keep their houses.

"It's mixed feelings," McKay said. "You hate to be the keeper of a neighborhood with a lot of foreclosures, but a lot of these are due to our systematic strike-team efforts. When you can't rent rooms in a boardinghouse, you're going to go out of business."

Although illegal occupancies can create serious quality-of-life issues, foreclosures can be just as toxic for a neighborhood. Subprime foreclosures in Virginia could push the value of nearby properties down by an average of $6,700 over the next two years, according to a study by the Center for Responsible Lending, a North Carolina nonprofit research firm.

Foreclosed properties also tend to remain vacant for extended periods, becoming magnets for vandalism and other crime, and be ill-maintained by the banks or other financial institutions that own them.