Cavalry Arms raided by the ATF

[AZRedhawk44]

This has something to do with Warren Mee of Ameetec Arms (located in Gilbert, AZ about 3 miles away from Cav Arms).  Warren was a former investor in Cavalry Arms before he went his own way.

Back in August or September or so (can't remember exactly), Ameetec was having a great sale on CAV-15 lowers.  I took a spin down there and picked one up, and I bought it from Warren.

I'm hearing rumors that Warren Mee is now in the Fed Pokey.  I can't find out what for, but I did come across one bad business dealing where it appears he stole a prototype receiver from another manufacturer, SBR'd it and set it to full auto as a police demo.

http://www.arfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=288&page=4

That particular issue appears to be fixed up, but I can't find out exactly what he did to end up in the slammer (of it he is indeed in prison at all).

Searching for his name on ARFCOM comes up with user id # 47221, but his screen name is asterisked out:
http://ar15.com/member/member.html?id=47221

Last post date is August 5th, 2007.

I'm wondering if he is turning rat (or making something up) in order to get out of jail early.

[Harold Tuttle]

http://www.bop.gov/iloc2/LocateInmate.jsp

Locate a Federal Inmate(includes all inmates from 1982 to present)
    Name   Register
Number   Age   Race   Sex   Release Date Actual  /  Projected   Location
                        
1.   WARREN HENRY MEE   35176-013   36   Asian   M       08-09-2008   LA TUNA FCI

FYI:
http://www.political-times.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=528

http://www.alacrastore.com/storecontent/dnb2/127933054

http://www.arfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=288&page=3

[Bogie]

He's probably hoping that if he pointed them at someone that does as much business as Cav does that a fishing expedition will find -something-.
 

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

or some of his dirty deeds were done there surreptitously  and hes using the songbird act

[Harold Tuttle]

Company:   Warren H Mee (Single location)
Address:   723 W Commerce Ave A 
Gilbert, Arizona  USA  85233-4316
Telephone:   0001 - (480) 505-0210
Business Description:   Mortgage Broker

Falcon Creek Mortgage
723 W Commerce Ave A
Gilbert, Arizona 85233
Mortgage Brokers
(480) 505-0210


Calvary Arms Corp
Company Calvary Arms Corp
Address 723 W Commerce Ste A
Gilbert, AZ 85233

[AZRedhawk44]

Good spot, Harold.

CavArms and Falcon Creek addresses are the same.

Is there a date on the source of that information?  I'm wondering if Falcon Creek is out of business and defunct since Mee was put in prison last year.

[nico]

I'm starting to feel dirty for buying a lower from Ameetec when that clown owned the place.

[The Rabbi]

I have an Ameetec lower and just love it.  I dont care that the owner was a dirty stinking scoundrel.

[De Selby]

The jihad strikes video is pretty careful to use the term "extremists".  It's actually pretty PC.

That doesn't matter to the media, obviously. They went and bawww'ed to CAIR to come denounce it.

CAIR is way down on my list of "opinions I give a rat's ass about."  They're the Muslim equivalent of the NAACP: they're attention whores who blow anything politically incorrect way out of proportion and cry racism every chance they get.

edit: Some of the comments by the neighbors are pretty obnoxious.  Since, the ATF showed up, they must be guilty.  After all, the ATF would never raid a gun shop unless they did something wrong

Don't know if I can agree with your equation. The NAACP was founded back when blacks were oppressed, and had (at one time) good ideals. It has since become worthless. CAIR on the other hand has been a front group for Islamic terrorists, and every CAIR member deserves to be executed for it.

I would say the NAACP is like the KKK (both are racial hate groups), and CAIR is like the SDS, (both openly undermine the country).

Moving back on topic, if Cavalry Arms is innocent (I bet they are, but I don't know squat) can't they sue for damages if the ATF hurts/kills their business, smears their name, and damages their goods?

Every CAIR member gets the death penalty via membership in an organization!?

Wow...just wow.

Oh the irony....gun owners lamenting the "well, the cops got them and there were guns, so they must be guilty" attitude and then turning around to say "well, they's members of that moosleem group, so they's deserves a hangin'"

[Bogie]

I thunk it was interesting that the CAIR guy immediately decided that the guys wearing masks, and waving AKs, and looking like a buncha, well, jihad nutjobs, were to be described by him as only "muslims."
 
Ain't like the video has the lady shooting up a church...
 

[Manedwolf]

I thunk it was interesting that the CAIR guy immediately decided that the guys wearing masks, and waving AKs, and looking like a buncha, well, jihad nutjobs, were to be described by him as only "muslims."
 
Ain't like the video has the lady shooting up a church...

That doesn't surprise me, being that CAIR has nothing to do with peaceful moderate Muslims and has everything to do with holding the door open for extremists. It has exactly three purposes.

1. Funnel funds to terrorist groups.
2. Chill discussion and stop dialogue about terrorist acts, intimidate those who report suspicious activities via lawsuits.
3. Lay the groundwork.

Nothing CAIR does surprises me. The only thing that surprises me about CAIR is why they're permitted to operate on our soil.

[Nitrogen]

That doesn't surprise me, being that CAIR has nothing to do with peaceful moderate Muslims and has everything to do with holding the door open for extremists. It has exactly three purposes.

1. Funnel funds to terrorist groups.
2. Chill discussion and stop dialogue about terrorist acts, intimidate those who report suspicious activities via lawsuits.
3. Lay the groundwork.

Nothing CAIR does surprises me. The only thing that surprises me about CAIR is why they're permitted to operate on our soil.

I'm asking this out of total ignorance of what cair is and does.
what/how do they xfer funds to terrorists, and "lay the groundwork" for what exactly?

[drewtam]

I'm asking this out of total ignorance of what cair is and does.
what/how do they xfer funds to terrorists, and "lay the groundwork" for what exactly?

Here's a start...
http://www.washingtontimes.com/article/20071121/NATION/111210046/1002/NATION
http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/394


They try to front themselves as a [cultural] bridge building organization, and defender of Muslim human rights. Read the links and judge for yourself.

[Manedwolf]

They have pretended to be an "awareness group". In actual fact, they're an unindicted co-conspirator in several terrorism funding cases. They have direct ties to Hamas, and their purpose in the United States is to launder money, and to chill any discussion of Islamic extremism as a threat. If anyone makes a peep, they hit them with lawyers funded by endless oil money from extremists.

Remember the "Flying Imams" case, when there were threats to sue the passengers who reported suspicious activities? Guess who was behind that?

But recently, and for at least the third time, federal prosecutors have called out CAIR as part of a covert Muslim Brotherhood effort in the United States. First, CAIR was named an unindicted co-conspirator in the Hamas-support trial of the Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development. CAIR was listed among "entities who are and/or were members of the US Muslim Brotherhood's Palestine Committee." Then, when the group petitioned to remove its name from that list, prosecutors said such relief "will not prevent its conspiratorial involvement with HLF, and others affiliated with Hamas, from becoming a matter of public record."

Now, in a federal court filing from December, federal prosecutors have described CAIR as "having conspired with other affiliates of the Muslim Brotherhood to support terrorists." The government also stated that "proof that the conspirators used deception to conceal from the American public their connections to terrorists was introduced" in the Dallas Holy Land Foundation trial last year and the Chicago trial of the Hamas men in 2006.

http://www.foxbusiness.com/article/record-government-reminds-court-cair2fmas-ties-terrorists-says-investigative_466898_1.html

Basically, if you make a peep about anything to do with extremist Islam in the US, CAIR will send its lawyers after you. If you make something like this "jihad strikes!" film, they'll be after you, but if a terrorist attack happens...you'll hear crickets. Watch what the guy did in the video, it's their standard method of operation. Any discussion of extremist threats results in context-twisting equivocation that it's "anti-muslim", the leftist media headbobbles and says "that's obviously racist!", and the discussion is ended. Over and over, they do this.

That's what I mean by "laying the groundwork". They have a chilling effect on any serious discussion of threats, and it's absolutely their agenda to do so. They are indeed a fifth column operating within the US.

And the leftist media loves them.

[Bigjake]

the biggest bummer with CAIR, is that it's hard to apply the SSS principle to them, without drawing official scrutiny. 

[Bogie]

I dunno... if enough SSSing is going on...
 
You know, just had an idea that the feebs should look into...

Keep a general tracker on these guys... Something that if they get on an interstate flight, and their passport gets used, it trips... If enough of 'em bug out of the country at one time, something nasty is supposed to happen...

[De Selby]

I'm asking this out of total ignorance of what cair is and does.
what/how do they xfer funds to terrorists, and "lay the groundwork" for what exactly?

Here's a start...
http://www.washingtontimes.com/article/20071121/NATION/111210046/1002/NATION
http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/394


They try to front themselves as a [cultural] bridge building organization, and defender of Muslim human rights. Read the links and judge for yourself.

Links to papers just like the ones that described all the "dangerous assault weapons" and "arsenal" type caches found by Federal police?

Yeah, the irony continues.  Citing MSM articles to prove a point in the very same thread where everyone is bashing the MSM for bias and not even getting names right.

Don't let the obvious double standard bother you folks.  CAIR-bash away.

[Manedwolf]

And shootinstudent is right on time to defend their beloved terrorist front group CAIR.

It's not even a MAYBE anymore. The whole freaking justice department knows! The ties to the Muslim Brotherhood, the ties to Hamas, they're all fact! Give it up!

[De Selby]

And shootinstudent is right on time to defend their beloved terrorist front group CAIR.

It's not even a MAYBE anymore. The whole freaking justice department knows! The ties to the Muslim Brotherhood, the ties to Hamas, they're all fact! Give it up!

Oh yes-the same Justice Department that runs the ATF, whose accusations cannot be trusted, absolutely must be believed if it claims terrorism.

Right?

The irony is spine-breaking.  You hit all three of the very same things that you started out lambasting when applied to gun owners-

1. Stereotype-wrong when people stereotype certain guns as "assault weapons" and therefore dangerous.  But perfectly okay to let stereotypes run wild if it's about CAIR/Muslims.

2. Media reporting-absolutely wrong, doesn't even get the names right, when it comes to reporting gun seizures and ATF assaults.  But must be accepted without question if it reports something bad about Muslims.

3. Justice department allegations-totally blown out of proportion and to be distrusted if levied against Cavalry arms or other victims of the ATF/DOJ.....but if the DOJ alleges something about CAIR (which it didn't really-but hey, we're accepting any media report as true for Muslims right?), it must be a fact, because "the whole freaking justice department knows!"...unlike with gun crime, where apparently the infallible knowledge of the DOJ becomes suspect.

I really want to know, Manedwolf-how do you do it?  Contradictions like this would drive me nuts...what is it that lets you look with so much skepticism at media and government allegations when guns are on the table, but that makes you into a yes-man when the subject happens to be Muslim? 

Is it just that you need for the DOJ to accuse Muslims of gun crime for you to take a hard look at the accusations, but any other kind of allegation is true? Or what?

[Bogie]

Okay... Explain to me why the CAIR talking head, when he saw the video, referred to the obviously armed, obviously masked, obviously bad-guy thugs, as "muslims" rather than "terrorists?"
 
So, following on this, I should assume that "muslims" generally wear masks to conceal their identity, and wave AK-47s in a menacing fashion?
 
In fact, the video refers to the bad guys as "islamic extremists." Not "muslims" like the CAIR guy did.

So, who is more in touch with reality? Or are "muslims" normally just thugs?

[De Selby]

Okay... Explain to me why the CAIR talking head, when he saw the video, referred to the obviously armed, obviously masked, obviously bad-guy thugs, as "muslims" rather than "terrorists?"
 
So, following on this, I should assume that "muslims" generally wear masks to conceal their identity, and wave AK-47s in a menacing fashion?
 
In fact, the video refers to the bad guys as "islamic extremists." Not "muslims" like the CAIR guy did.

So, who is more in touch with reality? Or are "muslims" normally just thugs?

Probably because the CAIR guy rightly realized that many people, like manedwolf, hold all Muslims responsible for terrorism.  So whatever the video maker intended, there are folks who will watch it and say "Ah, just like them muslims to do this stuff! they's all responsible!"

Identifying these people by their religion leads to a trend of holding the whole religion responsible.  This is an obvious point, as you can see from all the media articles following mass shootings that cry out "gun owner, gun fanatic, fascinated with guns" etc etc are designed to imply that somehow the killings were connected to gun ownership, even without explicitly sayin so.

[mustanger98]

And shootinstudent is right on time to defend their beloved terrorist front group CAIR.

It's not even a MAYBE anymore. The whole freaking justice department knows! The ties to the Muslim Brotherhood, the ties to Hamas, they're all fact! Give it up!

Call it conspiracy theory or whatever, but considering the way TSA and a couple of other outfits act towards muslims and/or arabs in general, it looks like DOJ may not only know, but they could also be in on it. Who knows how much truth is in that aside from DOJ, CAIR, Hamas, etc.

[Strings]

Hmmm... don't think I've weighed in on this...

IF, as is suspected, the ATF raid was because of allegations made by the former partner of Cav Arms owner, then the raid is justified. Heavy-handed, yes. But I don't think the ATF HAS any other tool than the hammer (just various sizes thereof).

 And honestly, the right thing for the CAIR talking head to have said was "This is not representative of all Muslims". NOT immediately started crying about racism, or what-have-you. protesting innocence too much?

 And SS, you're reaching the point of being ignored: ANY time there's something that MIGHT put some Muslims in a bad light (wether deserved or not), you leap in to the defence. Makes you look foolish (or, as some here say, a CAIR plant). I'm willing to trust the Justice Department if they say they've got evidence of connections between terrorist organizations and CAIR, until they're proven wrong...

[The Rabbi]

Shootingstudent has shown elsewhere that he cannot read and understand a simple supreme court decision.  Therefore by his own rules,he can't be relied on make accurate arguments in any other forum.
There seems to be thread drift here.  I dont know why ATF raided the company.  I do know that in general companies have pretty fair warning this sort of thing is coming.  While ATF, like any other organization, sometimes over-reacts, in general they are concerned with doing the right thing, at least as they see it.
I will reserve judgement on what happened until I see more.

[Perd Hapley]

And honestly, the right thing for the CAIR talking head to have said was "This is not representative of all Muslims". NOT immediately started crying about racism, or what-have-you. protesting innocence too much?

No, he should have said, "Why did you bother me with this stuff?  I don't have time to watch every little silly YouTube that references militant jihadists."