Author Topic: Buying first home... Advice?  (Read 8431 times)

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Buying first home... Advice?
« on: August 07, 2005, 07:39:46 AM »
As my title says,  I'm at the point where its now time to pull the trigger on a new home.  It'll be my first house, so i'm told there are some sort of  "first time home buyer" benefits i can take advantage of ( which i have yet to find ).

What do you guys recomend?  if the collective knowledge of gun nuts here is any indicator, if figure you guys will be of much help Wink

Fjolnirsson

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« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2005, 08:21:03 AM »
Be careful.
Don't take anything your realtor says as gospel. 99% of the ones I've met were lying filth. There are good ones, but hard to find.
Get a home inspection from an impartial company. It's worth the money.
Check the neighborhood at various times, not just when the realtor takes you. Some will take you at a "quiet" time. Go at night, on weekends, etc. Get out and go for a walk while you're there.
Talk to neighbors. Ask about potential problems or planned developments in or near the neighborhood.
Get a good map of the area and check for nuisances in the area. Train tracks, power plants, garbage dumps, etc.
Do your own checking online, and compare it to what your realtor is showing you. Realtor.com is a good site. I found out you can usually find anything the realtor can on your own using the web.
Be agressive with your realtor. If he/she won't show you what you want to see, go see someone else.
If you have kids, check for child molestors in the area. We had realtors try to gloss over this several times.
If I think of more, I'll post again.
Good luck.
Hi.

garyk/nm

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« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2005, 08:23:08 AM »
Pick a mortgage company to work with, get pre-qualified, and they will give you all of the necessary info on programs available to you. The programs vary widely by location, so I can't give any specific info, sorry.

The Rabbi

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« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2005, 08:50:44 AM »
I'll add what Fjolnirsson said.
Realtors are one step above child molester.  Maybe.
I worked in the mortgage business for 9 years and worked as a realtor as well.  They get paid when the house closes.  That should give you some idea of incentive.  Find out how long your agent has been in the business.  If it is more than 3 years full time then they are probably good (read: less bad) because it is a brutal competitive business.
Check out the various web sites.  Look especially at IndyMac's web site.  You can apply on-line and get pre-qualified.  Try to qualify yourself on a 15 year loan if you plan on staying in the house a while.  If you plan on moving in 5 years or less rethink buying.  You will get less house with a 15 year loan but the savings are astronomical.
When someone tells you your house is your biggest investment reach for your wallet.  Your house is your biggest liability.  The house eats up utility costs, insurance costs, property taxes, and maintenance and gives you nothing but a roof over your head.  So try to minimize what you buy.
They say it over and over: ;ocation location location, but it is true. You can change anything about a house except where it is.  Something to think about.
Anything I miss?
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Art Eatman

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« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2005, 11:16:42 AM »
Compare the cost of renting with the cost of Principal, Interest, Taxes and Insurance (PITI).  For some, the interest deduction off your gross income makes home buying a better deal.  So, look at last year's tax return and do a "re-figure" to see how much better off you'd be--if any.

You as homeowner are liable for all repairs.  Renting, it's the landlord.  That's another factor.

DO NOT get one of these interest-only loans, nor a floating-rate loan.  Those are just fool's paradise deals.  The exception is those who are buying into a rising market, expecting that the rate of appreciation in appraised value will grow--and they expect to sell within a relatively short period of time.  They're not buying "The Home" where they expect to live over the long haul.

Depending on location, count me among those who look at today's prices as a Bubble, and expect the bubble to burst within a year or three.  Not true everywhere, of course, but in some areas it is already taking longer to sell a house than just a year ago--which indicates a market top.

Art
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cfabe

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« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2005, 12:02:41 PM »
Only buy what you can really, truly, afford. Use the "old" formulas to decide this, don't listen to any realestate or financial people try to talk you into some new fancy flex or interest only loan, or tell you you can afford more than you can. Be modest and moderate in your choices.

Matthew Carberry

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« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2005, 12:47:59 PM »
+1 to all above.

I'm an Originator with the major credit union up here.  Think carefully about your long-term plans for this home.  Is it a starter you will be moving out of in just a few years?  Are you anticipating a change in income?  Worst case, what if one of your incomes goes away?  Those kind of questions will help you plan on what sort of loan program to look for.

One of the best reads online about various things to think about, and a site full of great calculators for comparing options, is Jack Guttentag's www.mtgprofessor.com .

I'd recommend doing some poking around his site.  He's a former industry guy himself but now just gives lectures and things.  He doesn't work for anybody and is not trying to sell anything.
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mtnbkr

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« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2005, 12:50:40 PM »
If you're married, try to buy the house based on one income's ability to make payments.  That way, if one of you loses your job, you won't be completely screwed.  

Chris

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« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2005, 03:59:18 PM »
Quote
Check the neighborhood at various times, not just when the realtor takes you. Some will take you at a "quiet" time. Go at night, on weekends, etc. Get out and go for a walk while you're there. Talk to neighbors.
I wouldn't have bought my house if I'd had any idea how many @#$%^&! dogs bark all day long.
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dws1117

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« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2005, 05:47:34 PM »
Never, ever, ever trust the seller. Tey are trying to get out as quickly as possible. An otherwise fairly honest person will lie throught thier teeth to get out of thier house. Remember, they probably have bought another house and need to get out quick, but this isn't always the case. The point remains, they want to sell and will say anything to accomplish that goal.

Did I say never?

Art Eatman

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« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2005, 04:29:24 AM »
A pretty good column from the NYT, reflecting what many of us think:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/08/opinion/08krugman.html?th&emc=th
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Jacobus Rex

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« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2005, 05:47:42 AM »
I would suggest using your own inspectors.  Don't be afraid to inspect the house multiple times either.  Also, inspect the house yourself as well.  Don't just rely on others.

Pay close attention to the roof and foundation.  Water damage is also a real problem.  It can come from plumbing or weather.  Termite inspection is also important.  I bought a house that a "professional" had inspected.  I found terminate damage that he missed not long after I bought it.

Sellers and realtors often like to CLAIM that they have another buyer lined up that is about to get it if you don't.  Don't fall for it, take your time and always offer less.

cfabe

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« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2005, 06:30:39 AM »
Also, remember there are always more houses out there, if something goes sour with the deal, or you find something you don't like, don't be afriad to back out. Make sure you get the continginces in the contract right so you can back out if you have a legitimate reason.

K Frame

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« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2005, 08:55:06 AM »
Jesus,

ANOTHER story about how the housing bubble is deflating.

I guess, given that roughly the same article has been published every day somewhere in the country for the last several years that eventually someone is going to get the prediction right.

One thing that needs to be said, though...

The housing bubble that bursts in New York, San Francisco, Miami, etc., may have absolutely NO relationship or effect on the housing bubble that you may be experiencing in your area.

That's the thing about real estate. Given that housing is not mobile (unless it's a trailer), each housing market is controlled by many interfactors that can easily trump regional or even national trends.


For example, the housing market in DC is so hot right now (77,000 new government jobs over the past couple of years, with more to come) that the zone of influence, generally delineated by what prudent people would consider a doable daily commute, is now over 100 miles out. The DC housing market is influencing housing prices as far away as Adams and York counties in Pennsylvania.
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Dave Markowitz

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« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2005, 09:13:07 AM »
Don't rely solely on a home inspector.  Mine was $%^&&$#! worthless.  Go over the house with a fine-toothed comb yourself.  Among other things, look for:

1. Signs of water damage.  Not just in the basement but in the attic or from plumbing leaks.
2. Note how old the water heater is and how long they typically last in that area.
3. Note how old the roof is and in what condition.
4. If it's an older home, look at the size of the circuit breaker panel.  E.g., I had to upgrade mine from 60A to 100A.  New homes come with 200A panels.
5. Are the A/C outlets properly grounded?
6. Are there any trees on the property that need to be trimmed, especially trimmed away from the house?
7. Do any trees sit over the sewer line that drains your house to the sewer main?  If so, roots may have gotten into it?
8. What is the age and condition of the HVAC system?
9. Are they old windows that leak or are they new?
10. How is the house insulated?
11. If any walls have wallpaper, in what condition is the wall behind it?  (Yeah, I got SCREWED with this one.)
12. Check for critters, e.g., carpenter ants/termites.
13. If you have kids or are planning to, how is the school district?

Pebcac

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« Reply #15 on: August 08, 2005, 10:16:59 AM »
I work in IT for a large real estate company, and bought a house a little over a year and a half ago, so I have sort of a dual perspective.  Pretty much everything said above is great advice, but don't let all that overshadow the houses themselves.  What I mean is this:  make sure you like the house!  For example, is there a floor plan you don't like?  Our house is a split-bedroom, and the master bedroom opens directly onto the family room.  I hate this with a passion, and won't ever buy a split-bedroom again.  Spend all your energy picking out the house you really see yourself living in, and once that's done, turn 100% of that energy to picking it apart.  If you can't find a fatal flaw (one that can't be rectified by the seller before you close), you've found your house.  Daunting, I know, but trust me--it's well worth it for the peace of mind.  Good luck, and don't let your enthusiasm get the better of you--sellers and their agents will take advantage of it if they see the gleam in your eye!
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K Frame

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Buying first home... Advice?
« Reply #16 on: August 08, 2005, 10:31:15 AM »
"If you can't find a fatal flaw..."

Would a portal to another, evil, dimension be a fatal flaw?  Smiley
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mtnbkr

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« Reply #17 on: August 08, 2005, 10:41:40 AM »
Quote from: Mike Irwin
Would a portal to another, evil, dimension be a fatal flaw?  Smiley
Depends on your point of view.  It would make taking the garbage out easier.

Chris

Pebcac

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« Reply #18 on: August 08, 2005, 11:45:11 AM »
I know folks who would add "Interdimensional portal" as a bullet-point on a listing if they thought it would help sales....  Wink
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Art Eatman

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« Reply #19 on: August 08, 2005, 12:07:46 PM »
Mike, HBaus44 doesn't say where he's located; it's just something to factor in...
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K Frame

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« Reply #20 on: August 08, 2005, 12:29:26 PM »
"Depends on your point of view.  It would make taking the garbage out easier."

Just like you, Chris. So lazy that you're willing to pollute a parallel dimension with diapers and other unsavory stuff.
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BryanP

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« Reply #21 on: August 08, 2005, 02:44:24 PM »
Whatever your income is, you will be "qualified" for a mortgage that is far larger than you should get.   Ideally your mortgage payment should be no more than 25% of your net take home pay on a 15 year note.  Yes, this means you will likely end up in "less" house than you like.  This can be a blessing in disguise.

My wife is an RN.  I'm a LAN SysAdmin.  I make a little bit more money than she does.  We have no kids.  Between the two of us we make enough money to be in a much, much nicer house than we are now.  In theory.  The last few years my wife has had numerous health problems, some caused and some exagerrated by a particularly nasty car wreck she was in.  As a result she hasn't worked much these past 2-3 years.  Fortunately we had our bills structured such that we can get by one only one of our incomes if we are careful and nothing else major goes wrong.   If we had bought the much nicer house we would have been hurting very badly.  She's doing better these days (well, mostly*) but being a bit frugal on our home person saved our bacon.





*She was all better and back to work the past couple of months and *wham* - she was bitten twice on the left leg and foot by a brown recluse.  She's due to get out of the hospital tomorrow.  *sigh*
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41 Redhawk

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« Reply #22 on: August 09, 2005, 08:45:57 AM »
Excellent advise here. five important things to emphasize

1. Get an inspection AND do it yourself too
2. Put up as much down payment as you can possibly do
3. Finance it for no more than 15 years. If you can not do that, you can not afford the house
4. It is going to cost more than "they" say....allow for that.
5. Do all your planning and calculating based on one income

Best to buy less than you can afford and have breathing room! The person arranging your financing gets paid to sell mortagages. The more he sells, that more he makes. He is not your "friend"

Nathaniel Firethorn

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« Reply #23 on: August 09, 2005, 10:22:55 AM »
Find an ASHI-certified home inspector.

Check the neighborhood during rush hour as well as the other times given.

I'd recommend reading "The Homeowner's Legal Guide," but it looks like it's out of print.

Talk to the neighbors.

Look for Superfund sites nearby. Generally they're not a plus. Cheesy


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Brad Johnson

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« Reply #24 on: August 09, 2005, 10:46:46 AM »
As a full time realtor, here's my two cents (and some comments)...

Quote
Don't take anything your realtor says as gospel. 99% of the ones I've met were lying filth.
...and 99% of the buyers I work with are wishy-washy, uncommitted, and generally need their heads examined for trying to waste my time looking at houses they A) can't afford, or B) don't intend to buy anyway, they just want to "see it for fun" on MY time and gas.

There is a term in the industry - "Buyers are liars". I've lost count of how many times buyers will have me haul them all over creation looking for a specific kind of house with specific things in specific areas, only to buy something totally opposite of what they thought they "had to have."

Quote
Be agressive with your realtor.
I can see why you've had trouble with realtors. "Getting aggressive" with a realtor is a good way to have them tell you to hit the road. And I have, literally. One client was so "aggressive" that I left him a the corner store and called the jerk a cab.

You want to establish a working, mutually beneficial relationship, not an adversarial one. You can be specific and discerning without being an a$$.

Quote
If you have kids, check for child molestors in the area. We had realtors try to gloss over this several times.
Why are you asking the realtor about a non-real estate issue? The realtor is there to help you buy a house, not to raise your children. That's YOUR job. If you have a concern about sex offenders, check out your state's sex offender database or contact the local police department for crime reports specific to that area.

Quote
Do your own checking online, and compare it to what your realtor is showing you. Realtor.com is a good site. I found out you can usually find anything the realtor can on your own using the web.
Yep, you can. And you can get even MORE information if you'll meet with the realtor at their office where you can go through the database TOGETHER and determine which homes best meet your criteria.

If you want advice on buying a house, get it from someone who does it for a living and not from someone who bought one house thirty years ago. Uncle Joe or Brother Bob might be a nice guy, but he knows squat about the housing and mortgage market

Now that I got that off my chest...


Quote
Pick a mortgage company to work with, get pre-qualified, and they will give you all of the necessary info on programs available to you. The programs vary widely by location.
AMEN! Your money situation should be priority one! Get that lined out first.

A mortgage is simple. Regardless of what the jickylender.com commercials say, lenders will want to know three things. 1) How much do you make, 2) How much do you owe, and 3) What is your credit status. The first condition will be verified with tax returns and paycheck stubbs, the second and third will be verified with your credit report. Sure, there are lenders who will do a loan without pulling credit scores, but be prepared for a 15-20% down payment and interest rates 3-5% higher than a conventional loan.


Quote
Check out the various web sites. ....  You can apply on-line and get pre-qualified.
Dear Lord, NO!!!!

A prequalification from an internet lender isn't worth the paper it's printed on. In short, they are crap. They say you are "pre-qualified" which is totally different from "pre-approved". I can qualifiy you on a calculator, getting a full blown pre-approval means you have completed the loan process and have been completely and fully approved for the loan with no conditions or contingencies remaining to be verified.

l can't caution you enough against internet lenders. Since the inception of the jickylender.com boom, I haven't had a single transactions (as in "None") involving an internet lender that closed on time or was anywhere remotely close to being like the Good Faith Estimate showed. And that's if they even closed at all. Local lenders have always been a better, and cheaper, source of a mortgage. As an example, the average local mortgage here costs around $650 with no origination fee and no paydown. The same loan via an internet lender will cost roughly three times that. If you can't find a good local lender, go with a nationally known name like Countrywide, Bank of America, or Wells Fargo. At the very least you will have some corporate backing if something happens to go wrong.

Quote
DO NOT get one of these interest-only loans, nor a floating-rate loan.  Those are just fool's paradise deals.
Ditto!! Ditto!! Ditto!!

Go for an old-fashioned 3-5% down conventional loan. It's straightforward and you know exactly what you're getting from the start.

Quote
Be modest and moderate in your choices.
Couldn't have said it better myself! There is a distinction between buying as much house as you can get approved for, and buying a house you can actually afford. Having a big, fancy house is worthless if you are in debt to your eyeballs and don't have the cash to do anything but sit at home.

Quote
If you're married, try to buy the house based on one income's ability to make payments.  That way, if one of you loses your job, you won't be completely screwed.
+1, and then some!!

In terms of what to do...

First, get your financial situation in order. Don't circumvent this. Do this first, before even setting foot in a house. With this step out of the way you can look at houses you KNOW you can afford, and you can negotiate from a strengthened position bacause your pre-approved offer is, for all intents and purposes, the same as cash. Lenders will give you a Good Faith Estimate based on your loan amount. If you have questions about the accuracy, go to a title company and have them pull a file on a transaction similar to yours so you can see the closing statement, or get your realtor to pull one from their files. Which brings us to....

...Find a good realtor! The hallmark of a good realtor is someone who will tell you what you NEED to hear and not just what you WANT to hear. Also, look for someone fairly low-key. Slick, fast-talking agents are little more than fancy used-car salesmen (remember, I'm an agent and I have to deal with dirtballs like this. I know of what I speak). Hint, an agent that pulls up in a fancy brand-new Hummer or Mercedes is probably NOT the person you want to use. Find someone who drives a nice, clean 3 or 4 year old car (model not important) and dresses professionally, but not overtly fancy. Finally, trust your gut. If you don't feel personally comfortable with the agent after just a few minutes, find someone else.

Also, be truthful with your realtor. If you don't like a house, say so. It's not their personal home, so you're not going to insult them by saying you don't like it. On the contrary, it helps the agent make better use of your time by weeding out houses with features you inherently dislike. Also, be aware that a good realtor will not try to "sell" you on a home. Good realtors know that buyers will purchase a home they like and don't need to be coerced, cajoled, or persuaded to do so.

Once you find a house, look. Then look some more. You know what a water stain looks like. You know what gas smells like. You know what loose, warped, or water damaged wood looks like. So... LOOK! Even good inspectors sometimes miss things. Also, BE THERE when the house is being inspected. That way you can ask about things you notice, and the inspector can give you more in depth information on anything they find.

And don't get hung up on "getting a good deal" if it loses the house you really like. Trying to wrangle an extra $1500 or $2000 out of the deal and losing the house is not worth the $15-18 difference in the monthly payment. That's right. That big number on paper is really a small number in reality.

Above all, be patient and make sure you maintain good communication. Pain-in-the-butt things WILL pop up. Count on it. It makes it a lot easier to overcome if everyone is on the same page. Keep in touch with your agent and mortgage broker regularly, but don't be a pain in the butt. Calling every day only makes the realtor and mortgage broker more likely to ignore your call. And be realistic. Life isn't perfect, which means no house, no realtor, and no mortgage lender is perfect. Some things simply can't be done exactly like you want them, but there is usually a mutually beneficial middle ground. Use a little common sense and maintain your objectivity.

Hope this helps!

Brad
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