Michigan democrat proposes 50-cent-per-gallon gas tax

[Manedwolf]

The only light rail I've personally seen that has actually worked is Pictatinny. 

[Perd Hapley]

It works in St. Louis. 

For all six passengers. 

 

[The Annoyed Man]

yeah... the light rail in St Louise really didn't seem to get that much use...

[Sergeant Bob]

The only light rail I've personally seen that has actually worked is Pictatinny. 

That doesn't run over to Belleville, ILL does it? They were big on putting one from there to St. Loo when I lived down there.

[Perd Hapley]

I think Manedwolf was talking about one of these.



According to the web site, Metrolink does offer service between Belleville and St. Louis.  I'd use the Metro more often, maybe, but I just don't go that direction much.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

The St Louis light rail is absolutely packed on baseball gamedays.

[Perd Hapley]

A lot of us used it last year (or whenever it was) to get to the NRA Annual Meetings. 

Really, though, I can't claim to know how much traffic they have, since I'm never there. 

[Sergeant Bob]

I think Manedwolf was talking about one of these.

According to the web site, Metrolink does offer service between Belleville and St. Louis.  I'd use the Metro more often, maybe, but I just don't go that direction much.

Oops! I hit the wrong quote button! 

[MechAg94]

Am I the only person who understands that people buy oil because they want oil? 

Yep.  I don't buy oil because I like it, I buy oil because it's the most economic substance for me to get from point A to B in a reasonable amount of time on demand.

You offer me an alternative fuel that would work out cheaper, like electric(assuming magic batteries are invented for EVs) and I'd switch.

Perhaps I wasn't clear.  Let me rephrase that:

People buy oil because they want the want what only oil can provide.

Transportation means oil, plain and simple.  There are no viable alternatives today.  Maybe someday we'll come up with something better.  When that happens people will switch.  Trying to force people give up or reduce oil usage before then is an exercise in futility, if not stupidity.

We can debate the merits of mandating this or subsidizing that or taxing everything else.  In the end all we're really debating is whether free people should be forced by government into doing something they don't want to do: giving up oil and with it the freedom to travel easily.

I'm not sure why anyone would be in favor of that.

HTG, that is pretty much my opinion.  I think any attempt at the present to force alternatives, it going to be heavy handed Govt.  Oil and Oil powered vehicles are freedom. 

[The Annoyed Man]

Like I said, we're not Japan.   We're not gonna use mass transit.  Get a Prius.

[charby]

Like I said, we're not Japan.   We're not gonna use mass transit.  Get a Prius.

I would have buried that Prius on Saturday when I took a wrong turn into axle deep mud on my way to go fishing.

[Boomhauer]

Get a Prius

No.

[The Annoyed Man]

Wow Paddy: you're quick to tell others how to live their lives.

 Want to tel me to quit smoking, wear a helmet when riding, things like that too?

[roo_ster]

I think a dose of Milton Friedman appropriate right about now:

"Indeed, a major source of objection to a free economy is precisely that it does this task so well. It gives people what they want instead of what a particular group thinks they ought to want. Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself."
----Milton Friedman

[The Annoyed Man]

It's a joke.  Lighten up an quit taking yourselves so seriously. The point is, if gas is too expensive, find ways to use less of it.  Conservation, ya know...........

[Firethorn]

It's a joke.  Lighten up an quit taking yourselves so seriously. The point is, if gas is too expensive, find ways to use less of it.  Conservation, ya know...........

That's pretty much what I've been talking about; with a caveat that in city-type areas some form of mass transit CAN be a economical solution; especially if you do it well enough that you can get many of the cars in the daily traffic jams off the roads.

Consider that there are numerous people stuck in traffic for a hour each way to travel less than 30 miles in many cases.  That's $6-7 in fuel today alone; not to mention the time, oil changes, insurance, etc...

Commute costs:
$6 Fuel  (30 miles, each direction, at 30mpg)
$10 car payment* ($300 month/30 days in a month)
$2 insurance
$.50 maintenance ($30 oil change every ~2 months/3k miles)

That's $18.50 a day that you can save, plus or minus of course.  If anything I might be a bit low on average.  For example, what if you're driving a 15mpg truck or SUV?  Heck, what if you have to pay for parking downtown?

Cars are expensive.  Think of the savings we could have if we could come up with an alternative.  It doesn't necessarily have to be cheap, given those expenses.  Think about a downtown area.  Parking garages cost millions.  Street side parking ultimately costs big money as well, as it takes up at least one potential lane.  One idea I'm having for a downtown area would  be covered elevated slideways between buildings - preferably even within the buildings so you can keep your average speed up.  You'd park outside of the downtown area and walk to your final destination - avoiding the traffic downtown.  Costs could be mostly covered by eliminating the need for one or more parking garages.

This is part of the reason for some car sharing programs as well - faster, more convienent methods to essentially 'rent' a car on demand.  If you can save $20/day by NOT having a car, you can afford to spend $30 once a week or so when having one would be sufficiently convienent.

*Yes, this is not 100% necessary, but note that I'm keeping the price down too.  Also potentially not refundable if the person still needs a vehicle no matter what.  Same with insurance.

[HankB]

Cars are expensive.

They'd be less expensive if they weren't taxed to fund public transit, schools, or other politicians' pet projects.

They'd be less expensive if the EPA weren't meddling with things like "regionally formlated" gasoline mixtures.

They'd be less expensive if the government weren't requiring things like emission checks.

They'd be less expensive if the government allowed drilling in ANWR and other places.

They'd be less expensive if the government allowed processing of coal into gasoline.

[Boomhauer]

Damn straight, HankB

[Firethorn]

Cars are expensive.

They'd be less expensive if they weren't taxed to fund public transit, schools, or other politicians' pet projects.

How does that work out with the massive subsidizations for roads, in many cases?  In many areas gas tax doesn't pay for it all.  Not even adding in car registration fees covers the expenses.

They'd be less expensive if the EPA weren't meddling with things like "regionally formlated" gasoline mixtures.

Agreed - though generally speaking the EPA isn't mandating those, it's the individual cities trying to meet the EPA guidelines.  I like clean air, and pollution is a problem that tends to crop up when you stick millions of automobiles in one area.  Get rid of a bunch, especially the older more polluting ones and you might not need botique gas.

They'd be less expensive if the government weren't requiring things like emission checks.

I like breathing clean air, thank you.

They'd be less expensive if the government allowed drilling in ANWR and other places.
They'd be less expensive if the government allowed processing of coal into gasoline.

Agreed, though that'd only save some of the $6.  Especially coal gassification, extraction of oil from oil shales/sands.  These processes cost more than just pumping crude, after all.

In any case, please keep in mind that I consider a good alternate transportation measure to have to beat cars on at least the majority of points, and be competitive on others -

Cost
Convienence
Speed/Transit time to destination
Capacity

Consider, while slideways wouldn't be the fastest transporation out there, done right you could take a more or less direct route at around 6-10 mph.  If the streets outside are 25mph with redlights at every intersection and heavy traffic, it could easily be faster to take the slideway.  Especially if parking is difficult to come by.

Heck, I think that purely interior electric trainways might be neat as well.

[Gewehr98]

Some of these replies are quite interesting.

I really want to see who told them that we have an unlimited supply of liquified fossil fuel, ripe for the plundering. 

IOW, our petroleum-based economy is merely a temporary thing, folks.

You might be lucky and live a full lifespan, then die, before the cost of said petroleum forces alternatives.

Then again, you might not.

[roo_ster]

Well, yeah, in the long run we're all dead, anyway.

[The Annoyed Man]

Cars are expensive.

They'd be less expensive if they weren't taxed to fund public transit, schools, or other politicians' pet projects.

They'd be less expensive if the EPA weren't meddling with things like "regionally formlated" gasoline mixtures.

They'd be less expensive if the government weren't requiring things like emission checks.

They'd be less expensive if the government allowed drilling in ANWR and other places.

They'd be less expensive if the government allowed processing of coal into gasoline.

Apparently, you'd rather live in China.  I hear there are good jobs available there, paying up to $1.20 a day.

[Manedwolf]

Here's a gas station in LA:



My local prices in NH for 87 oct:

Mobil: $3.06
Irving: $3.05
Hess: $3.05
7-11: $3.05

Gee, maybe it's because we don't have all the asinine greenie laws and taxes here?

[charby]

Kum and Go was $3.17 on Sunday for 87 Octane. (Iowa)

[HankB]

Cars are expensive.

They'd be less expensive if they weren't taxed to fund public transit, schools, or other politicians' pet projects.

They'd be less expensive if the EPA weren't meddling with things like "regionally formlated" gasoline mixtures.

They'd be less expensive if the government weren't requiring things like emission checks.

They'd be less expensive if the government allowed drilling in ANWR and other places.

They'd be less expensive if the government allowed processing of coal into gasoline.

Apparently, you'd rather live in China.  I hear there are good jobs available there, paying up to $1.20 a day.

So you're saying government DOESN'T meddle and screw things up in China?