Author Topic: The Feminism Thread  (Read 19619 times)

LadySmith

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,166
  • Veni, Vidi, Jactavi Calceos
The Feminism Thread
« on: April 01, 2008, 11:19:17 PM »
This is a spin-off from the Slamming Firefly thread.

Im starting this thread over what the word feminism invokes.

The basic definition of feminism is:
1. Belief in the social, political, and economic equality of the sexes.
2. The movement organized around this belief.

For some, feminism is a good thing, a source of strength and a course of action.
For others, its a bad thing, indicating obnoxious behavior and possible psychosis.
Im interested in what folks here, particularly the women, think of feminism.

Here at APS, Ive been alluded to being a feminazi and now Im being called a lady.
Im curious as to how Ive made this transition in the eyes of those who inhabit this site.

As for me, I agree with equality, but have lost respect for the movement. That downslide began with reading Andrea Dworkin (all hetero sex is rape) and finalized when they collectively took on an anti-gun stance.
I know of nothing more empowering and equalizing than becoming proficient with firearms.
I know of nothing more horrifying than to promote further victimization.

Your thoughts?
Rogue AI searching for amusement and/or Ellie Mae imitator searching for critters.
"What doesn't kill me makes me stronger...and it also makes me a cat-lover" - The Viking
According to Ben, I'm an inconvenient anomaly (and proud of it!).

Standing Wolf

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,978
Re: The Feminism Thread
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2008, 12:01:22 AM »
Some people take action. Some people whine.

Some people accomplish things. Some people demand more government.

Some people create. Some people tax.

Some people hope and try for the best. Some people look backward all their lives.
No tyrant should ever be allowed to die of natural causes.

Ex-MA Hole

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,976
    • The Brown Bomber
Re: The Feminism Thread
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2008, 01:18:50 AM »
In my mind, feminism in it's purist form is the crazy notion that you should be judged by what is in your heads, not was is, or, is this case, what is not, in your pants.

That said, once female's start to talk about heterosexual relations being rape, it gets loony, and looses credibity.
One day at a time.

Iain

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,490
Re: The Feminism Thread
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2008, 01:27:50 AM »
Yes, but I don't think that is what Dworkin said exactly. I'm no expert on radical feminist literature, but I did briefly look into Dworkin after she and Stoltenberg were mentioned by our Firefly critic.

Dowrkin rejected the notion that she had called all hetero sex rape. She seems to have been talking about our notions of what heterosexual sex is, and that our culture views it as a conquest of a woman.
I do not like, when with me play, and I think that you also

SomeKid

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 437
Re: The Feminism Thread
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2008, 01:32:20 AM »
Ever since I was aware the feminist movement has been in the psychotic stage.

Question, LS. Do you think:

1) Women should vote?
2) Women should be eligible for the draft?

280plus

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 19,131
  • Ever get that sinking feeling?
Re: The Feminism Thread
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2008, 01:33:23 AM »
Oh no you don't. I was just in a car wreck. Do you think I want to get into a discussion on feminism where I could REALLY get hurt?  shocked

 grin
Avoid cliches like the plague!

seeker_two

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12,922
  • In short, most intelligence is false.
Re: The Feminism Thread
« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2008, 01:35:37 AM »
Quote
Here at APS, Ive been alluded to being a feminazi and now Im being called a lady.

Whoever called you a feminazi should have to babysit Abby for a week.....

As for feminism: the biggest problem I see is that the "traditional" feminist doesn't recognize any choice a woman may make if it doesn't fall along the "party line". If a woman chooses to stay at home and raise the family, she's derided and rejected. If she wants an old-fashioned relationship with a man (i.e. marriage), she's oppressed. If she wants to watch "Firefly", she's brainwashed.

If feminists want to support a woman's right to choose, they shouldn't deride the choices she makes---esp. if those choices aren't "feminist"....
Impressed yet befogged, they grasped at his vivid leading phrases, seeing only their surface meaning, and missing the deeper current of his thought.

wmenorr67

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12,775
Re: The Feminism Thread
« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2008, 01:37:26 AM »
I am glad I am not a woman.  They cannot win.

No matter what decision they make someone is telling them that they are wrong.
There are five things, above all else, that make life worth living: a good relationship with God, a good woman, good health, good friends, and a good cigar.

Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American Soldier.  One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.

Bacon is the candy bar of meats!

Only the dead have seen the end of war!

Perd Hapley

  • Superstar of the Internet
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 61,489
  • My prepositions are on/in
Re: The Feminism Thread
« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2008, 02:35:42 AM »
I have yet to be called a masculinazi.  Guess I'll try harder. 
"Doggies are angel babies!" -- my wife

Ex-MA Hole

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,976
    • The Brown Bomber
Re: The Feminism Thread
« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2008, 03:00:09 AM »
I am glad I am not a woman.  They cannot win.

No matter what decision they make someone is telling them that they are wrong.


I'm sorry, but I have to disagree...... grin
One day at a time.

Jamisjockey

  • Booze-fueled paragon of pointless cruelty and wanton sadism
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 26,580
  • Your mom sends me care packages
Re: The Feminism Thread
« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2008, 03:04:36 AM »
Some people demand equal pay for equal work, equal treatment under the law...equality equality equaility.  That was the original feminist movement.  Just like any liberal minded cause, however good, it was hijacked by fringe psychotic man-haters.
JD

 The price of a lottery ticket seems to be the maximum most folks are willing to risk toward the dream of becoming a one-percenter. “Robert Hollis”

wmenorr67

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12,775
Re: The Feminism Thread
« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2008, 03:05:48 AM »
Hey Ex-MA, how can you be formally Ex-MA? laugh
There are five things, above all else, that make life worth living: a good relationship with God, a good woman, good health, good friends, and a good cigar.

Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American Soldier.  One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.

Bacon is the candy bar of meats!

Only the dead have seen the end of war!

Ex-MA Hole

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,976
    • The Brown Bomber
Re: The Feminism Thread
« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2008, 03:21:50 AM »
If I have to explain my logic to you, you are obviously too sane to understand.

Please ask again when you start to loose your mind.
One day at a time.

wmenorr67

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12,775
Re: The Feminism Thread
« Reply #13 on: April 02, 2008, 03:26:03 AM »
You calling me sane?  The man who volunteered for back to back deployments to Iraq?. rolleyes cheesy
There are five things, above all else, that make life worth living: a good relationship with God, a good woman, good health, good friends, and a good cigar.

Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American Soldier.  One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.

Bacon is the candy bar of meats!

Only the dead have seen the end of war!

Ex-MA Hole

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,976
    • The Brown Bomber
Re: The Feminism Thread
« Reply #14 on: April 02, 2008, 03:29:20 AM »
Fine.

About two weeks ago RileyMC changed his name and added "Formally known as RileyMC".  Then Fistful added the same thing.

I was bord and over tired, so I added my line, while keeping the same name.

It was funny in my mind.
One day at a time.

wmenorr67

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12,775
Re: The Feminism Thread
« Reply #15 on: April 02, 2008, 03:32:01 AM »
You stick to that story....yeah.....that is it. laugh
There are five things, above all else, that make life worth living: a good relationship with God, a good woman, good health, good friends, and a good cigar.

Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American Soldier.  One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.

Bacon is the candy bar of meats!

Only the dead have seen the end of war!

Ex-MA Hole

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,976
    • The Brown Bomber
Re: The Feminism Thread
« Reply #16 on: April 02, 2008, 03:41:58 AM »
That's what the voices keep teeling me, ok?
One day at a time.

Iain

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,490
Re: The Feminism Thread
« Reply #17 on: April 02, 2008, 03:53:33 AM »
A feminism thread hijacked by men talking nonsense.

The smell of patriarchy around here is nauseating.
I do not like, when with me play, and I think that you also

Ex-MA Hole

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,976
    • The Brown Bomber
Re: The Feminism Thread
« Reply #18 on: April 02, 2008, 04:43:42 AM »
That's actually my breath.

Sorry man.
One day at a time.

Firethorn

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,789
  • Where'd my explosive space modulator go?
Re: The Feminism Thread
« Reply #19 on: April 02, 2008, 04:45:53 AM »
There is nothing wrong in my mind with 'feminism'.

However, just like there are libertarians and Libertarians, religious people and religious extremists, gun owners and gun nuts, etc...

There are feminists and Feminists.  I believe that we saw the term 'Feminazi' coined to distinguish between a person who believes that women should have a more or less equal shot at life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness and those that believe that females should be help superior to males, by their own vision of superiority.  That no relationship, as a matter of course, between men and women can be healthy.  The whole 50% of men are rapists - the other 50% just haven't had the chance yet type.

Like any other definition of this type - it's subject to varying shading degrees, even outright misuse in order to discount somebody's words.

I have no problem with feminism, it's just when you get to the extremists that I become concerned.  Well, I start disliking those who want all the privaleges that traditionally come with being female while breaking into traditionally male rights/privaleges - such as breaking into traditionally 'male only' places while not opening up the female places.  

Just as an example, look at male only universities and organizations - you see lawsuits left and right to force them to allow women, yet you rarely hear about the opposite.  It's like expecting the Boy scouts to take girls while keeping a girl only requirement for the girl scouts.

Though I guess it's shaded a bit by the fact that it's only the women who have wombs - making them much less disposable than men.

cassandra and sara's daddy

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 20,781
Re: The Feminism Thread
« Reply #20 on: April 02, 2008, 05:42:31 AM »
feminizim is a lot like ron paul  the basic concepts are good but it draws whack jobs like moths to a flame. and has become a home for man haters all too often. this from the guy who was in love with a girl who did legal work for now. i went out with her and the girls drinking a lot. was like being at the zoo
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

BlueStarLizzard

  • Queen of the Cislords
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 15,039
  • Oh please, nobody died last time...
Re: The Feminism Thread
« Reply #21 on: April 02, 2008, 06:10:25 AM »
for a year when i was a teenager i went to a womens resource center that had weekly discussions. i did enjoy it. on thing that came up often was the idea of Feminazi vs. feminist. it was basically the same discussion that has just happened.

feminazi is a women who has gone over the edge and now hates and despises men.

and a feminist just wants the fare shot. which still hasn't been fully realized.

i think that women who have gone over that edge have a lot of problems. i think that NOW is a horrible institution. in fact i have a rather nasty letter i wrote them years ago, saved on this computer. the feminazi has ruined the fight. if you claim to be a feminist it is often confused. the things that still need work are not being aderessed because the organizations have lost their credibilty and the women who are the true feminist have shut their mouths in order to save their own credibilty.

LadySmith, i agree that the point of feminism was to put women on equal grounds and to give women the chance to make their own choice, weither they want to be a professional or a housewife or both.

oh, and by the by, i agree that women should be eligable for the draft. i also think that women should be allowed in combat. its not right to make the men be the only ones risking their lives for our freedoms.
"Okay, um, I'm lost. Uh, I'm angry, and I'm armed, so if you two have something that you need to work out --" -Malcolm Reynolds

K Frame

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 44,567
  • I Am Inimical
Re: The Feminism Thread
« Reply #22 on: April 02, 2008, 06:45:27 AM »
I have no problem with the basic tenets of feminism.

I do have a problem with women like the one who wrote the article on Firefly who turn it into an estrogenic militant crusade of Biblical proportions.
Carbon Monoxide, sucking the life out of idiots, 'tards, and fools since man tamed fire.

roo_ster

  • Kakistocracy--It's What's For Dinner.
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 21,225
  • Hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats
Re: The Feminism Thread
« Reply #23 on: April 02, 2008, 07:35:03 AM »
I think it helps to understand the intellectual foundation of some in the feminist movement.



Back in the 1800s, it sought a complete fulfillment of the promises in the Declaration of Independence.  Its leading lights (Willard, Anthony, Stanton) were still advocating a liberal (classical), enlightenment philosophy of equality before the law.

The second-comers in the 1960s had marxist roots, a philosophy completely alien to the DoI, classical liberalism, and American culture & politics.  For example, Betty Friedan was not just some housewife as she lied in Feminine Mystique.  She had been and still was a marxist activist.  Steinem, Dworkin, MacKinnon, & such are cut from the same marxist cloth.

Feminism from the 1960s on was little more than a marxist front-group, what the marxists call a "popular front."  It was one of many PFs used by marists to influence American politics and culture.



From my perspective, I have no problem with equality before the law., as long as reality is acknowledged.

For instance, women have no place in combat units, period.  Partly it is due to the physical differences*.  Party it is due to the effect of women in the unit. 

I signed up as infantry and went through all-male training through Basic & AIT.  Comparing notes with soft-skilled men who had co-ed training, it is easy to see they were poorly served and less prepared than I**, due to the presence of women and the accommodations required.  That poorer training was born out in the wash-out rate through RIP, which found very few soft skills able to hack it.

Jump school was an exercise in frustration, as PT was terrible.  It was kept at a pathetic level so as to not wash out every darn female who wanted her jump wings.

When I got to my (all male) unit, the stories I would hear about mixed units were pretty disheartening, disgusting, and many other "dis" words.  Men who came from those units were grateful to be here, despite the fanatical/near-psychotic discipline & standards.




* Less upper-body strength, more injury-prone, more time/money required to train up to the standard, more prone to casualty due to sub-standard environmental conditions++, pregnancy issues & the effects of a soldier's pregnancy on the unit

** "Poorly served and less prepared" can be translated as, "more likely to die if that training had to be relied on."

++ I can get more descriptive, but would rather not, as lunch approaches.



Regards,

roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
----G.K. Chesterton

Werewolf

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,126
  • Lead, Follow or Get the HELL out of the WAY!
Re: The Feminism Thread
« Reply #24 on: April 02, 2008, 08:05:33 AM »
I used to work with a very nice lady who called herself a feminist. We both agreed that she should get the same pay for doing the same job at the same quality level as men. She didn't like the idea of men doing things like paying for dates and opening doors for ladies.

She used to bug me starting in the Spring about coming over to her house on the weekend and mowing her lawn (mowing the lawn guys - not a euphemism for sex - at least I'm pretty sure mowing the lawn is what she wanted)...

Anyway she made this request quite often until I finally got fed up and said, "Belinda, you guys fought for years for the right to mow your own damn lawns. You got what you wanted so mow your own damn lawn."

Her response:"We fought for the right, Michael, to mow our own lawns not to actually have to do it".
My response: Well, we won't go there. Needless to say she never asked again.

There's just something so fundamentally wrong with "We fought for the right, not to actually have to do it". I have observed this attitude in not a few so called feminists.

If women want to be the equal of men then they should be subject to everything we are be it good or bad, pleasant or unpleasant. Pretty simple really - can't have equality and accept the good only.

It seems to me though that many so called feminists are a bit hypocritical about their cause when something that goes along with being equal may not be to their liking.
Life is short, Break the rules, Forgive quickly, Kiss slowly, Love
truly, Laugh uncontrollably, And never regret anything that made you smile.

Fight Me Online