Thinking of a new hobby: Guitars and guitar help.

[Ryan in Maine]

I don't know a thing about guitars except "Gibson" and "Fender", but I've really been in need of a new hobby and playing guitar is at the top of the list. It seems like a great creative outlet while giving you a meditative quality and incredibly beautiful instruments. I'm also guessing I'll be self-taught/learning at my own pace, so something easy to learn on and grow into would be ideal. I'd also like your opinion on what models you think would make the top of the "best buy on a short budget" and "best bang for your buck without necessarily being cheap" categories. I'm open to recommendations for electrics, electracoustics, and acoustics.

To be up front, all I've done so far is looked at Gibson's and Fender's websites.

For electric, I obviously like Gibson's Les Paul and Flying V models, and Fender's Stratocaster models. Unfortunately they're not in my targeted budget of "affordable" beginner models. I have no idea what the benchmarks for electracoustic or acoustic would be. They all look the same to me.

So if you have the time, I'd appreciate any recommendations for a beginner, and maybe some technovocab to give me an idea of what components control what sounds on a guitar. I don't know anything about amps and enclosures, cables, tuners, cleaning products, pickups, or strings either. Pretty much clueless on everything, but I can't shake the allure.

P.S. I'm also aware that Gibson has Epiphone and Fender has Squier. Would that be a better path to take?

P.P.S. For a little background to help make a recommendation, I'm 5'8", kind of slim, and have smallish hands. My favorite current guitarists are John Frusciante and Jack White, but I also respect my elders like Eric Clapton and Jimi Hendrix.

[The Annoyed Man]

Ah yes... the good ol' flying V... "STATION!!!"

Well, you're jumping into a very rewarding hobby, but also one that can *gasp* be even more money- and time-demanding than guns.

I've been playing for a number of years now, and I have this advice: be enthusiastic. It's been my experience that lessons don't help nearly as much as REALLY REALLY wanting to play something by one of your favorite artists.

Find a player near you. Have him show you some basic basic chords. Tip: if you know all your basic open chords, you'll be able to fake about 90 percent of popular music. There's not many of them, and they're easy. Once you've played for a few months and can switch between all those, have him show you the minor pentatonic scale. That will allow you to solo like a mo'fo. Or at least, the above will give you enough knowledge to embarass yourself in front of real good players. But hey, they all started there too, right?

If you do want to go the lesson route, take your time selecting one. Find someone you gel with on a personal level and who likes similar music to you.

As for gear, I started on a Squier with a little 15 watt practice amp. I still have that guitar, although I don't play it anymore now that I have acquired a taste for custom built Carvins. As far as the starter models, I'd go with an epiphone over a squier (one of my stage guitars is an epiphone) but then again, you said you have smallish hands, yes? A gibson profile neck can be hard for someone with small hands. Should you get a squier, I'd recommend a fixed bridge as opposed to a tremolo, because tuning on a cheap trem is a pain. For starter gear, one of those "combo packs" that epiphone and squier makes will do you nicely. Many of them come with a small amp, strap, cord, tuner, and picks, etc.

This one in particular is a nice one for someone on a budget....     http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Epiphone-Les-Paul-Special-II-and-Amp-Pack?sku=513150


don't worry too much about gear at this point. Good gear sounds no better when a beginner is playing it. Invest your money into books instead. Fretboard logic is good, but kinda complicated for a beginner. I recommend getting that after you've been playing for 6 months to a year. Troy stetina's books are good, his "metal lead guitar" and "metal rhythm guitar" are good starting points. The key with those books is to practice each exercise wth the CD until you can do it flawlessly before moving on to the next one.

Also, pick some artists you like but that have simple guitar parts and get tab books. Learn to read and play tab and you'll be all set.

Here's your open chords, but you'll want a guitar player to show them to you as well... It's easier to figure out when you see what a player's fingers are doing.

http://www.guitarforbeginners.com/openchords.html

The White Stripes is easy.. you can pick up one of their tab books and that should give you a song list that you can quickly play in a few months.

Good luck, and let me know if you have any more questions.


James

[wooderson]

I'm teaching myself to play currently. I've been doing pretty well lately, so I splurged on some relatively expensive stuff (guitars in the $1000 range) for a starter - just picked up an American-made Guild D50 acoustic from a youth minister tonight. It's purty.

(with the cost of ammo and the PITA of making it to a range, guitars and DIY projects have become my main hobby these days...)

But there are a lot of good guitars in the lower range these days. CNC machining is a beautiful, beautiful thing.

My current favorite guitar, even over the Japanese Les Paul is a Danelectro Dano Pro - $250 shipped. Masonite top and back over a plywood body, nice chunky neck (I've got pretty big hands), '50s look to it. They're closing them out at a few places so you might be able to find one.

[wooderson]

As a rule, folks seems to like the MIM (Made in Mexico) Fenders and Squier Fenders better than Epiphones. Bolt-on necks tend to make them a bit cheaper to mass produce than the Gibson-style set necks.

A MIM Fender Standard, either, Stratocaster or Telecaster, will set you back ~$350-400.
I've played (played being generous) a number of them, though, and my preference is actually for an even cheaper model, the Squier Vintage Modified Telecaster - all three I've played were well put together and sounded good for their price class. Only gripe is that the neck is kind of skinny - would probably be great for someone with smaller hands.

Even cheaper than that is the new Squier Bullet Stratocaster - $100, solid wood body, and a nice neck (in my experience). Not sure this is recommended as a starter guitar, though - the whammy bar setup and cheap tuners supposedly make keeping in tune a pain. I'm going to order one to teach myself to re-wire and change parts.

[wooderson]

And one last one - just saw it tonight. Ibanez usually makes wanky metal guitars, but they've got a new model with a surf vibe that looks like fun. $300, and despite not being my thing, the cheaper Ibanez guitars have a very good reputation.

Jet King 3

[280plus]

NOOOO!! STEP AWAY FROM THE GUITAR!!   

Remember, Lindsey Buckingham preferred playing his guitar over doing Stevie Nicks! This is very dangerous territory your getting yourself into!!   

I just played a friend's relatively cheap $200 maybe? Fender acoustic made in China IIRC. Sounded OK to me and I liked the way it played. I'd start there.  After you learn a few chords, if you decide to stick with it, THEN go looking for a better quality electric. A chinese electric fender, Epiphone etc is not "better" they are mostly crap. Buy either a Gibson or an AMERICAN made Fender. You'll notice a bit of a price difference but you get what you pay for. Comparing a $1,200 American Fender to a $179 Chinese one is like comparing something that's really good to something that is a POS.  Don't overlook pawn shops and classified ads. I've gotten all my best guitars that way. Find someone that knows a bit about them and take them guitar shopping with you. I have a bad habit of always picking up the best guitar in a place first. It always raises the shop owner's eyebrows when I do. 

I also suggest you learn to play single note lines simultaneously to learning chords. You'll be a better player for it in the end.

[The Annoyed Man]

Honestly, start with an electric: there's FAR more you can learn to do yourself easily to make an electric sound good and play easy than there is on an acoustic (this from the guy currently trying to learn mandolin and bouzouki).

 Another good investment (if you decide you want to stick with it) is a Steinberger headless and a pocket amp. You can pick one up on Evilbay. Here's an example:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Steinberger-Spirit-White_W0QQitemZ120241493116QQihZ002QQcategoryZ2384QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

The reason I tell folks to get one is the portability: I take mine pretty much everywhere. And the pocket amp means you can practice without bothering folks around you...

[Iain]

Back when I was considering moving from acoustic to electric the advice for the guy on a budget was the Yamaha Pacifica range.

[280plus]

Get many tanks with that bazzooki of yours? 

[JonnyB]

I went with an acoustic Washburn (Rare wood model); <$500 at a local music store.

I consider it the same as I do my golf clubs, rifles and handguns: The equipment I use won't handicap my performance for many, many years. The weakest link is the loose nut holding the pick!

I did have the store tech lower the bridge, as the strings were too far away from the frets for comfortable playing. We also replaced the stock strings with a better-quality product. That whole bit cost ~$25.

jb

[The Annoyed Man]

Not yet, but I'ma workin' on it...

One note: while the fingering may remain the same between two instruments, pay attention to the length of the neck ("scale"). I can play most stuff for mandolin on the bouzouki, but the scale is just a touch different (read: "the entire mandolin can fit in the length of the bouzouki's neck")

[Mabs2]

I'd recommend starting with an acoustic and learning the basics on that.  Then electric will be a breeze.
And also you wont be one of those rock musicians who's acoustic songs sound like crap.
I have one of these
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Ibanez-IJAE5-Acoustic-Guitar-Pack?sku=519605
that has served me well for many years.

[geronimotwo]

i too am a fan of learning on an acoustic. there are some great inexpensive guitars out there today, but, i have never been a fan of mailorder. i like to play the individual guitar, as the tone will vary greatly on the cheapies (even in the identical model). if you can't play yet, ask the salesman to play so you can hear, or bring along a friend who can play. check that the neck fits comfortably. even classical guitarists can have small hands with bigger necks, it's all a matter of rotating on the thumb and not being lazy with your hand, fingers, and wrist.

as for electrics, the fender mexican strat is a really nice guitar that many people play professionally. it sounds good, and the background noise level is ok. find out who's tone you really like. if it's santana, you may want a gibson with humbuckers. if clapton, then it's a strat. of course today you can buy various inexpensive electronic processors that will make almost any guitar sound like your hero of the day. a les paul is a heavy guitar to hang on your shoulder for four hours. the flying v is great, but try practicing while sitting. ibanez, peavey, carvin, gibson, they all make good guitars, just stay away from the lower end as the electronics are usually more noisy.

for an acoustic or electric you should be able to find a good guitar in the $300-$500 range.

a good case or well padded gig bag should also be a consideration. this will protect your guitar for the many years you will have it.

[280plus]

And also you wont be one of those rock musicians who's acoustic songs sound like crap.

Yup...

[Ryan in Maine]

Hey folks. Thanks for repying and helping out. To be up front, I came back to the post days ago but got so overwhelmed with all the reading and studying this post led to, I thought I'd take a few days to "acclimate" to things.

James:
I can already see that it will certainly be more demanding of money/time to me than firearms. Not right away, but a year or two down the road. Personally, I see firearms as tools. Getting something nice is a bonus, sure, but at the end of the day a firearm still has limited uses for me, with a limited set of motions. You stay safe and you hit what you're shooting at. A guitar has five more triggers and shoots a much wider range of ammunition. Safety can be an afterthought, and you don't have to hit what you shoot at. Something better might come of it, even.

I have a few friends who play guitar who are willing to teach me basics. They all play acoustic though. Still, they're willing and have been doing it for awhile. They should be able to get me to that level where I can proudly embarass myself in front of real players.

Gear gear gear. My head is spinning.I haven't been quite happy with the combo packages I've come across (although if I go electric, it's as you said - it won't make me sound better than I actually am). As a result I'm still up in the air about whether to go electric, acoustic, or electracoustic. I've set my budget at $500-600 (about the same as the gun budget). I have found some deals going on Musician's Friend (which the local guitar joint will actually stay pretty competetive with) that have impressed me for acoustic and electracoustic guitars (how long do I have to wait to start calling it my axe?).

The guys at the local joint don't think my hands are exactly small by guitar standards. My fingers are on the cusp, but it's really my pinky and thumb that seem to be small/smaller side of average. They suggested a Fender Mustang (everyone has a different suggestion, ugh). For now I'll pick up reading materials while I continue the guitar debate.

What is the difference between an acoustic and an electracoustic as far as playability goes? Is an electracoustic worth it? Is it actually an upgrade over an acoustic?

Wooderson:
It's so tempting to jump into the $1000 range. So so tempting. I haven't heard of Danelectro, but that sure does look vintage. It looks pretty comfortable to sit down with too. Right now (out of semi-familiarity), the only brands I'm looking at are Gibson/Epiphone, Fender/Squier, and Ibanez. I'm going to be a pain in the ass and ask everyone to make recommendations from those folks for electric, acoustic, and electracoustic at the end of the post. I'll let everyone know what's been tempting me. Disclaimer: I may create an urge to buy another guitar.

280:
After I get through the stages that James touched on, I've pretty much already got my mind made up to upgrade to a real Gibson or Fender. If I had the money I'd buy one just to hang on the damn wall. Some of them are just that sexy. Don't worry. I'm not giving up sex for guitar. Ha ha.

Strings:
Wtf is a bouzouki? You're talking way out of my league already. Ha ha. Thanks for the amp recommendation. I'm probably going to be getting curious about specific gear pretty soon.

Iain:
Yamaha is a brand I'm on the fence about. It seems they have some good buys, but I'm not as familiar with their history as I am with Gibson, Fender, or Ibanez. I'll research them this weekend.

Jonny:
Some of my friends who are willing to teach me the basics own Washburns. I'm not familiar with the group but their instruments sound great from what I've heard. In-store tweaks are something else I've been wondering about. You think an electric could be lightly tuned like that for a similarly low price (or should I be asking the local joint that question?)?

MBS:
My friends have recommend I start on acoustic as well (but they all play acoustic pretty much exclusively). What's the difference in playability between an acoustic and electracoustic? What makes transitioning from electric to acoustic tricky?

Geronimo:
I will probably buy my guitar at the local joint. Their prices are almost the same as Musician's Friend. Almost. If I find a deal I can't pass up and have to order it will be going to the local joint as soon as possible for the reasons you brought up. I will want to hear it. Thumb rotation is one of the things that seems like I will have to work on diligently. I watch John Frusciante play and he just does it effortlessly. Made my hands feel small.

I like Santana and Clapton. Now what? Ha ha.

Everyone:
I'm going to share what I've been looking at from each company to get some more opinions (at least what I've been looking at that I can get through the local joint for a similar price). I don't think I'll get to it this morning since I haven't slept yet. I'm going to try but I don't think my brain is going to cooperate.

Thanks again for the assist folks. I'll check back in sooner this time.

[seeker_two]

Guitars?.......

Why not just get into guns like normal folk do?.....

[280plus]

Don't worry. I'm not giving up sex for guitar. Ha ha.

There, you've had your first lesson! 

Lesson two: Guitarists hate to see really good guitars just hanging on the wall. 

[Mabs2]

Acoustics are a lot harder to fret than electrics.  If you start on electrics and go to acoustics you'll probably sound pretty rough.
Another thing, I've known guys who play electrics exclusively, when they play with distortion they sound fine, when they play without it, not so much.  Distortion hides mistakes really well...if you don't know when you mess up, you can't get better.  Acoustics are a LOT more picky than electrics in this regard, when you get good on an acoustic, you should be great on an electric.

Electric acoustics (whether they have a pickup or an internal mic) should be no different from normal acoustics.  The one I linked to above that I have is electric, and even came with an amp.  This is so you can play with your lead guitar buddies without their amps drowning you out.

[geronimotwo]

anything that resonates will be effected by added mass, but the advantage of having great sound through an amp outweighs the slight acoustic loss in most cases. `takamine, fender, ibanez, and yes, yamaha make excellent acoustic and acoustic-electrics. check into taylor and martin. even some of their low end stuff sounds and plays pretty well. ovation has a few winners as well, with less of a feedback problem.

[Mabs2]

I can personally vouch for the cheaper Ibanez and Takamine acoustic electrics.  The Fenders are supposed to be great too.  Best bet would be to go to the store like mentioned above and actually play one.  The cheaper end guitars are a bit more lacking in quality control than the more expensive ones.  At least usually.

[280plus]

And don't fall for the "Guitar Center's" weekly annual sales... 

[Tuco]

Speaking of added mass, Les Pauls are heavy.

Gratuitous (sp?) guitar porn

http://www.elderly.com/vintage/items/30U-14676.htm

Sometimes they go for twice that price....

[Ryan in Maine]

Seeker:
Wasn't there an invention that combined both?

280:
*Crosses off Lesson 1*

I don't know about Guitar Center, so I think I'm safe for now.

MBS:
Well now I can't see any benefit to an acoustic over an electracoustic for my use. I think I've just ruled out acoustics. A nice acoustic seems like something else that would come along later on, after I've been accepted into the club.

Geronimo:
I was told the same thing at the local joint. To me, a little loss of acoustic might even be a good thing since I live in an apartment and have neighbors in close proximity.

TwoCoSo:
I had a rough weekend. I almost lost my mind. Yet, here you are, making me feel incredibly sane. Ha ha.

Everyone:
I'm going to try to get that list I was compiling up in here.

[Ryan in Maine]

Alright folks. Here are the guitars I'm looking at (guitars that I like, have a good following, and I can find at competitive prices from the local joint):

Acoustics
Epiphone Dove (Ebony) - http://www.epiphone.com/default.asp?ProductID=&CollectionID=9
Epiphone Hummingbird (Ebony) - http://www.epiphone.com/default.asp?ProductID=&CollectionID=9
Epiphone Masterbilt 500's - http://www.epiphone.com/default.asp?ProductID=&CollectionID=15

Electracoustics
Epiphone EJ-200CE (Black) - http://www.epiphone.com/default.asp?ProductID=&CollectionID=10
Epiphone SST Studio (Ebony/gold hardware) - http://www.epiphone.com/default.asp?ProductID=&CollectionID=10
Fender Acoustasonic Strat (Pewter or ebony) - http://www.fender.com/products//search.php?partno=0139700343
Ibanez Exotic Wood (Zebra, Padauk, Koa, or Bubinga) - http://www.ibanez.com/acoustic/series.aspx?s=ew
Ibanez Montage (Metallic black) - http://www.ibanez.com/acoustic/series.aspx?s=Montage

Electrics
Epiphone Les Paul 1956 Reissue (Ebony/Alnico V P-90 pickups) - No link on Epiphone's website.
Epiphone Les Paul Standard LE (Candy apple red/gold hardware) - http://www.epiphone.com/default.asp?ProductID=&CollectionID=6
Epiphone Les Paul Special 2 (Vintage sunburst or black) - http://www.epiphone.com/default.asp?ProductID=&CollectionID=6
Epiphone Les Paul Studio (Worn brown or Arctic blue) - http://www.epiphone.com/default.asp?ProductID=&CollectionID=6
Epiphone SG G-400's - http://www.epiphone.com/default.asp?ProductID=154&CollectionID=16
Ibanez ART300 (Black caiman or brown caiman) - http://www.ibanez.com/eg/series.aspx?s=artist
Squier Telecaster Obey (Propaganda) - http://www.squierguitars.com/products/search.php?partno=0325003550
Yamaha AES620 (Royal blue or faded burst) - http://www.yamaha.com/guitars/aes/0,,CTID%25253D600002,00.html
Yamaha RGX A2 (White or black) - http://www.yamaha.com/guitars/rgx/0,,CTID%25253D600004,00.html

Is there anything you would definitely rule out? Are any of these questionable for beginners? This list does not mean I won't consider anything else. This is what I have found personally appealing while checking the company websites and a couple I found on Musician's Friend. I think it's still plenty long though. 

[280plus]

Guitar center is like a big box music store. For a while there they were advertising sales weekly and calling them lifetime chances to get the gear you need cheap. So THAT'S all BS. Then you go in there and every guitar has been manhandled by every idiot in the world so they're all scratched and beat before they ever make it out the door. It's sad to see a new Martin priced at $2500 looking all abused before it ever gets out of the store. And I sure as hell ain't paying full price for it either. They make me so mad...