Obama spits on PA and American values in comments to SF liberals

[Sergeant Bob]

What?

[wooderson]

Give it up, wood.  It's painfully clear that you're grasping at straws trying to discredit a man who you disagree with.

So give me a reasonable interpretation in which Bernard Shaw is actually wishing for the extermination of the working classes.

This I gotta see.

Sowell's quotes of Marx and Shaw were accurate enough, as far as they go.

Marx's quote is the one I picked up on first (being a more famous phrase), but the Shaw quote is actually more problematic.

When we source a quote to someone, we are attributing not just words but meaning. To suggest, using the passage cited, that Shaw was wishing death upon working people and detested them is ethically abhorrent.

Maybe you have no problem with Sowell making things up as he goes along, but I do.

And even if they were inaccurate, what of it?

Remember when I called his audience uncritical, and certain people got their dander up?

If you want to discredit Sowell, come up with a real reason.

I consider base dishonesty plenty of reason.

Give a sound argument why his main thesis was wrong.  Don't pull a couple of his quotes and pretend that they're taken out of context and thus "dishonest".

I don't care about his "main thesis." I've said nothing about his "main thesis."

I noticed that he misused a quote. Then I noticed that he gravely misused another. This is the basic concept of "dishonesty." If you can defend either usage on their merits, go ahead.

Or, as you've already done, accept a little bit of dishonesty when the cause is righteous.

But don't side-step it.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

It's quite simple, wood. The point Sowell was making was that radical leftists have contempt for the working classes.  Marx, Shaw, and Obama are alike in that regard.  The Marx and Shaw quotes both illustrate the disdain they each have for the poor.  Obama's San Fran remarks illustrate the disdain he has for the poor.  That Marx and Shaw were both speaking to larger points at the time doesn't lessen their disregard for the lower class.  It doesn't make Sowell dishonest for pointing out that disregard. 

I'll say it again, the Marx and Shaw quotes are accurate as far as they go.   You may not like it, but it's true nonetheless.  You accuse Sowell's audience of being uncritical, but I think you are the one lacking critical thinking here.  Do you have the honesty to admit your misjudgment?

I expect you'll dodge.  I expect you'll continue to split hairs, parse the semantics, obfuscate, bloviate, filibuster, and and play your beloved word games until the discussion loses all meaning.  I have no interest in going there, so I'll leave the last word to you and exit the discussion now.  Ciao.

[wooderson]

The point Sowell was making was that radical leftists have contempt for the working classes.  Marx, Shaw, and Obama are alike in that regard.  The Marx and Shaw quotes both illustrate the disdain they each have for the poor.

Er... no.

That's what Sowell wants to demonstrate. Problem is, neither quote actually says what he claims - again, the Shaw quote in particular is an egregious deception on the part of Sowell.

But, as is evidenced here, his audience (when exposed to the real quote) believes that ends justify the means and thus he is comfortable with his dishonesty. If only I could find such selfless patronage.

I'll say it again, the Marx and Shaw quotes are accurate as far as they go. 

You'll say it again, but you still won't have read the Shaw quotes, apparently. You should try that.

I'll throw you an easy question, though. Who or what does the "they" in "they do not deserve to live" refer to?

[longeyes]

No man who bowls a 37 can ever be President of the United States. 

It's all in the wrist, Barack.

[Manedwolf]

I'm not sure I could bowl a 37 if I threw the ball AT the gutter.

Aside from that, a local pundit nailed what Obama and his wife really are.

They're 80's yuppie throwbacks, complete with yuppie guilt.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

they're called buppies

[longeyes]

When I see Barack Obama I think of SIX DEGREES OF SEPARATION and the kid who was pretending to be Sidney Poitier's son...

It's not hard to con the guilt-stricken.

[Modifiedbrowning]

wooderson wrote:

So give me a reasonable interpretation in which Bernard Shaw is actually wishing for the extermination of the working classes.

GBS said:

For my part I hate the poor and look eagerly to their extermination. I pity the rich a little, but am equally bent on their extermination. The working classes, the business classes, the professional classes, the propertied classes, the ruling classes, are each more odious than the other: they have no right to live: I should despair if I did not know that they will all die presently, and that there is no need on earth why they should be replaced by people like themselves.

Emphasis mine:

For my part I hate the poor and look eagerly to their extermination.

[gunsmith]

Aside from that, a local pundit nailed what Obama and his wife really are.

They're 80's yuppie throwbacks, complete with yuppie guilt.

That really nails it MW, he is a totally 80's dude.
He hasn't grown spiritually, emotionally or politically since that era.

[Perd Hapley]

Please quit insulting the eighties.   

Although the eighties were the last time the Dem. party wasn't dominated by the Clintons.  Hmm.  Something there, maybe.

[RevDisk]

Odd.  Since Obama's comments, I've noticed Ron Paul and Clinton signs everywhere in central PA.  Very, very few Obama signs.  And he rolled through here not that long ago. I think I saw a single McCain sign.  Might be mistaken,  

Philly and Harrisburg are probably still fairly Obama friendly.  Go figure.  Sigh.   

[wooderson]

Modifiedbrowning - we must be working under different definitions of reasonable.

Do you not believe that when one sentence which follows another on the same topic, the latter modifies or informs the former? Are all sentences separate entities? Is the concept of the paragraph a lie?

[Glock Glockler]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DygBj4Zw6No

Here he gives Hillary the bird at a campaign event, it's comforting to know how much respect he treats members of his own party with, I wonder how he'll do with govts that are hostile to us. 

[AmbulanceDriver]

@Glock

Just watched the clip.  Doesn't exactly look like he's giving her the finger, as you put it.  Looks more like he's scratching under his eye, and just happened to use the middle finger.  My dad does that all the time.  I know it's kinda joked at as a surreptitious way to give someone the finger.  Don't get me wrong, I'm not an Obama supporter, but I think that he's got enough political savvy to NOT do that, even in a "sneaky" manner.

[johnster999]

@Glock

Just watched the clip.  Doesn't exactly look like he's giving her the finger, as you put it.  Looks more like he's scratching under his eye, and just happened to use the middle finger.  My dad does that all the time.  I know it's kinda joked at as a surreptitious way to give someone the finger.  Don't get me wrong, I'm not an Obama supporter, but I think that he's got enough political savvy to NOT do that, even in a "sneaky" manner.

I don't know. I hope your right. I'd like the think somebody who has a real chance at the white house would be above flipping his opponent a childish, sneaky bird during a speech. It seemed the crowd at it up. A bit later he used the same hand to do a "brush off" gesture related to some criticism Clinton had made of him which drew similar cheers.

[Glock Glockler]

I wonder how many people might be dismissing it because they are far more uncomfortable with the idea that someone who has a real shot at being the president would do something like that, I also wonder why this has gotten zero coverage in the media.  His "typical white person" comment was evidently no big deal and his association with the Trinity Church apparently didn't hurt him in the slightest. 

This is especially interesting considering how much every network replayed the Bush-Cheney "big time"  comment about the reporter several years back. 

Obama is getting a free pass by the media. 

[roo_ster]

Feh, that was no bird, that was an itch.

Even the Unholy Messiah of Neo-Progressive Doom is not so perfect in his futurechangehoped-ness that he is immune for minor skin irritation.

[wooderson]

I'm more likely to vote for any candidate who'll flip off a Clinton.

[wooderson]

Guaranteed vote if he gives a Clinton the 'double deuce.'

[gunsmith]

Looks like the crowd interpreted it as flipping the bird.
I wouldn't be surprised if it really was.

[Glock Glockler]

You must give the Devil his due, Obama is a very polished and skilled speaker, do you really think he would make a gesture that could be interpreted like that is it wasn't what he wanted to get across?  Or look at it this way, if he was speaking to a hostile USSR during the Cuban missle crisis would he make that gesture or would it occur to him that it might be interpreted as flipping the bird?

He knows exactly what he's doing.