Who likes analyzing a discussion?

[Guest]

I'd like to privately show someone a quasi-argument taking place somewhere else, so that they can tell me if I'm being illogical and crazy, or if this other person is arguing like a woman. Seriously, what they are doing reminds me of my mom on a bad day.

[Guest]

Boy, I'd be down for that.

[garyk/nm]

But, but, ...Barbara, you are one of THEM!

[Guest]

I'd be able to tell you what womanly style was being used to whack you in the head with a 2x4 if you were close enough, too.

[Guest]

Blackburn-

Allow me to share what little I "think" I know about arguments and women.  Understand I am handicapped from the get-go being a guy and all...

Little known fact is  the "why" women have prerogative. See men get to stand up to tinkle, to make the genders even women get "prerogative". Now you know.

I mean it a great thing being able to write your name in the snow, the dirt, to water the rose bushes and all...the flip side in a argument-  with a lady you are going to lose - that prerogative kicks in.

I mean the lady could be mistaken and all...accidents do happen. If this occurs however prerogative kicks in and the original topic of discussion is re-defined and she will be correct.

Hence the reason I find it a waste of time to argue with folks. Guys - easy to ignore them , easy to appease them " yeah so whatever you are right" - male ego being what it is - the idiot...err...other male has to run to others to brag.

Women - I'd make more headway going out back and making waterfalls off the balcony or something.

Now civil debates - I like to watch folks with skills do this. Read / hear the presentations, valid cites and all - really educational.

"Steve - why did you go out back to make waterfalls off the balcony?"
"Because she is a woman and women have Prerogative and therefore I was going to lose the argument".

See, this stuff ain't hard at all.   Now teaching a dog to write his name in the dirt takes some doing...

[Guest]

Oh, bull..if you lose an argument to anyone, either you're wrong, or you suck at arguing.

We don't take lessons at the Great Chick Conclave.

Or to steal a phrase "We're not the Goddamned Borg."

(Apologies to Preacherman and Art's Grammaw for that one, but its hard to replace the God with anything else in a quote.)

[Guest]

Well, the fun thing is, you now have a whole new discussion to analyze and this one will be easier, because there can be no doubt at all: I argue like a woman.

[Warren]

[...has left the building.]

I just recommend telling women what to do, it is sooooo much easier that way.

[grampster]

Barbara, always use a small g and put in two dd's like you did.  Then your not using His name at all.

Heh, I've been around a while.  grampster's first rule of woman=Don't ever argue with them.  Resign yourself to knowing they are always right, even when the possibility seems to exist that they are not.  That is only a possibility and if you bet on it, you will lose.  You are wrong, they are right. Understand that, accept that and you will live in harmony.

[Guest]

Barbara,
I was attempting to be funny.

Not directed at anyone -

The truth is I ain't got time for stupid people.

I am dead serious, I have walked away from many friends,  I have walked away from all but one family member. I really do not care.  I finally realized how important some things in life were. I recalled lessons from mentors and elders. My responsibility is to me first. If I do not take care of me and my serenity - I cannot pass forward, nor can I be there for someone or something when I need to.

-When asked to walk a couple  anti gun folks to their cars , after a play in a bad part of town , same folks whom I had presented my side with a gun lock on a fire extinguisher in a class to - I said NO.  I did suggest they flip a coin as to whom would spread legs and get raped first. I walked away with my friends like myself CCW-ing.  Well phooey - they made it to vehicle and home safe obviously - they were on campus the following Monday.

 One of them that Monday commented having a Motorola cell phone did not really comfort her and make her feel safe that previous Friday night - she wanted to learn about firearms , learn to shoot and getting a CCW. She did this about face, the one whom had argued so hard in favor of gun control and against CCW and other Pro Gun stuff.

- I had at one time made a suggestion when asked about a security concern. I was made fun of and ridiculed. I walked off from these folks. When the phone rang sometime later about folks getting robbed and one in the hospitial - I told them to go to hell and hung up. I have never talked to these folks again.  Word did get back to me thru the grapevine they did implement some of my ideas. When asked if I had rec'd a card of apology - I replied I had written on the un-opened envelope " Addresse Deceased - Return to sender". They are forever dead in my eyes.

-I do not like bullets being fired at me, I have this allergy to incoming lead. One reason I walked away from some supposed family.  I stated my concerns a long time ago about something , presented my case very strongly if I do say so myself. Well I literally ran from that threat and made it to my vehicle - I then sped away to safety. One can choose friends and all. One cannot choose family. I chose to disown the whole lot - except for one.

I do not claim to know it all. I do not claim to be correct in all my decisions and life experiences. I was raised when a person "has arrived"  Immaturity has announced itself.

My take is this:

Arguments - well they are emotional , not always rational, the other persons are close minded and not receptive - instead they want to change me.  These I walk away from.

Discussions , or Debates  usually mean the other persons have done their research and have data to back up or present their views. Folks tend to actually listen - not hear - but genuinly  listen to each other and be receptive to new ideas, data, and experiences. They are open minded and are willing to accept change. Even changing some or part of their view. There is mutual Respect. Folks may part still in disagreement - the repect for civil exchange is still intact. These I listen to and learn from.

I pay attention to folks like Art, Rich, Mike Irwin, and remember CRSam?  Just a few folks that do not allow emotions to cloud their ability to communicate effectivley. One may not always agree with these examples of folks  I used - then again I am not the only one that respects their communicative skills in expressing a viewpoint.

In the time I waste with a stupid person I can perhaps pass on something to another. For sure I can learn something for my benefit.

Regards,

Steve

[BillBlank]

On women - if, during the course of a spirited exchange of views, a man should inadvertantly be "right" he should immediately apologise for his embarrassing faux pas.

On God - "All I said was that meal was fit for Jehova."

[telewinz]

I'd be able to tell you what womanly style was being used to whack you in the head with a 2x4 if you were close enough, too.

My hero! (heroine).

[Werewolf]

Winning arguments with women is easy - GET OLD...

Ya see - when yur a young man and yur arguin' with a woman there's always this thing in the back of your mind that says - "Don't piss her off, give in, that way ya still might have a chance to get in her pants". That little voice comes from the nether regions containing two globular glands that have override rights in young men.

By the time a guy gets older - say over 50 or so - two things have happened:

1) He's had enough women that the veto the nuts get has been revoked
2) He's figured out that usually arguin' with women ain't worth the effort - i.e. just agree with 'em and go on about yur business.

As an aside I've been married to the same woman for 25 years. It took me 15 of 'em to learn that saying NO to her wasn't the end of the world. It was very liberating - I mean learning how to say no to her felt to me like it must have felt to the founding fathers when the British waved buh bye at Yorktown.

Moral of the story: Take back control of your life from those little veto artists between your legs and learn how to say NO!

[Art Eatman]

I'm an agreeable sort, myself.  I'll do anything anybody wants me to, as long as that was what I'd planned on doing in the first place...

, Art

[Ktulu]

Winning arguments with women is easy...

Yes it is. Just cut them off from sex.

[Guest]

Hmm..this is the ad our legislative committee wants me to post for my replacement because I have to miss the fall committee meeting. What style should I use on them?

"Activist committee seeks inspirational Muse. Must be able to inspire group of curmudgeony middle-aged men to aspire to political greatness.

Ability to look good wearing a toga and gunbelt a significant plus.

Shaven legs optional."

They made up the toga part. They have a picture of me wearing a bass on my head, but not a toga.

[Paddy]

The trick to winning arguments with women is to never let them have the last word.   In fact, you can end the argument with the right words.  "Yes, dear".

[cordex]

Steve's got it.  You have to make a distinction between an argument and a civil debate/discussion.

A debate or discussion can be 'won' or 'lost' based on the quality of each person's dialog and supporting position.  An argument can not be won based on logic or reason because it isn't about logic or reason.  It is about emotion.

[Guest]

Which is it when I yell at our leg. nerds?

[cordex]

Barbara,
I believe the word you're looking for is "fruitless".

Debate, discussion, argument only apply when there are multiple parties involved.  Not sure you can call it any of those if one party just isn't listening at all.

[Guest]

I was teasing..you think I annoy the heck out of you all, imagine actually knowing me..and they not only know me, but voluntarily agree to work with me, for free. Not that we don't argue a lot, in every sense of the word, but we know we're all on the same team and have a job to do and trust each other to do it well. Which is what it's all about, when it comes down to it.

I should ask them if I argue like a woman. That would be really funny.

[Guest]

Right now I am having a "disagreement" with an Instructor, Access 2003, My stapler, the new container of paper clips, a #2 pencil, a clip board Computers and the Internet in general.

Fall Semester started for me on Aug 15, first assignment due the 23rd for one of my Online classes. Being the studious older returning student I am - I knock out this thing and email it as per instructions last Friday the 19th. Allowing me "I thought" the weekend to get ahead on next projects and do some stuff for other classes both the online ones and the ones requiring my being on campus.   So about 5pm today I get this " I am so sorry - I gave you students the wrong databases, and wrong materials for this class, Assignment is still do for Aug 23 at Noon.



Oh yeah I called him, asked about us folks that had already sent in 5 hours worth of work. Seems in order to be "fair" to those whom have not sent theirs in , and to make grading easier, "Well it was good practice now wasn't it?"

Well life is such, I took this assignment  off my flashdrive, put onto a CD. I may see this sucker again down the road, and I have it done.  Things tend to work out in the wash so who knows?

Emails from classmates whom also sent work in early wanted to know my take and what to do. I suggested a fresh Pot of Coffee and a new pack of smokes. Not much else to do - but get to work on the correct assignment.
"I don't like coffee and I don't smoke" I hear from a couple of folks.
"Well...never to late to learn now is it?" I reply.  *grin*

--

Barbara,

This is not to sound like I am flirting - you have always come across to me as being "Fiesty", "Sassy", and "Having Spunk" ,  This is a compliment btw.  You articulate your thoughts well, you do your research and know your subject matter very well.  I have a feeling we could get into trouble - in a good way.  I ever get up your way - have a PETA meeting schedule and and lets send a meat tray via taxi to them...

Togas:  I always think of "Animal House" when I think of Togas, Continentals, and Food Fights.  Oh and Pearl Harbor.

Belushi's character does a great job of "Debating" and "Presenting his views".

"When the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor..."
"Food Fight!"
"Road Trip!"

I dunno Barbara I might suggest " Must be able to cite the Speech by Belushi's character  in "Animal House" when Germany Bombed Pearl Harbor, whilst wearing a Toga and drinking a fifth of whiskey".

I gotta fresh pack of smokes, full pot of strong black coffee, Pink Floyd's "Dark Side of the Moon" [ going to start with "Comfortably Numb" btw]. in the Sony Walkman... time for me to...

"Hit it!"