Author Topic: Brady bunch OUT SEnator McCain (Read 21541 times)

Wizzo · « **on:** June 11, 2008, 05:51:18 AM »

McCain thinks can fool some of the people all the time -- like the NRA Leadership.

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My staff did a little digging and found an interesting passage from a longer floor speech Sen. McCain delivered to the Senate in January 2004. In it, he takes three common-sense stands in favor of what are today key items in the Brady Campaign's legislative agenda.

First, Sen. McCain spoke against the restrictions on ATF trace data sponsored by Rep. Todd Tiahrt (R-Kan.), even as those restrictions were pushed by the National Rifle Association. (As Rep. Tiahrt said himself, "I wanted to make sure I was fulfilling the needs of my friends who are firearms dealers." NRA officials "were very helpful in making sure I had my bases covered," Rep. Tiahrt said.)

Next, Sen. McCain spoke against the requirement to destroy records of firearms transactions within 24 hours, preferring the 90-day rule that gave law enforcement time to catch prohibited purchasers not immediately rejected by Brady criminal background checks.

Finally, Sen. McCain spoke against the prohibition on ATF to conduct inventory audits of licensed gun dealers, which allowed law enforcement to keep track of "lost" or "stolen" weapons - like the Bushmaster assault rifle used by the DC snipers.

For some reason, there has been little discussion of Sen. McCain's 2004 statements about the Tiahrt restrictions against ATF, the 24-hour record destruction rule, and the inventory audit procedures of gun stores. There is no mention of them on his campaign Web site, in his speeches to the NRA, nor in the recent discussions he had with NRA leadership.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-helmke/mccain-on-crime-gun-trace_b_106246.html

Manedwolf · « **Reply #1 on:** June 11, 2008, 05:52:38 AM »

You're linking to a source on the ultra-leftist hate site HuffPo?

And McCain is the lesser of the evils. Obama WILL encourage and sign bans on everything.

Why on earth would you be trying to damage the lesser of the evils in favor of the greater?

K Frame · « **Reply #2 on:** June 11, 2008, 06:17:42 AM »

"Why on earth would you be trying to damage the lesser of the evils in favor of the greater?"

And the answer to that?

Ron Paul?

Tallpine · « **Reply #3 on:** June 11, 2008, 11:17:14 AM »

Ron who

Never heard of him. laugh

cassandra and sara's daddy · « **Reply #4 on:** June 11, 2008, 11:25:00 AM »

someone explain #1 to me?

#2 seems a lil excessive they should be able to find dirt in less than 90 days

#3 an inventory seems reasonable

AZRedhawk44 · « **Reply #5 on:** June 11, 2008, 12:58:49 PM »

Audits are done at the expense of the gun dealer.

Goon-troops won't do the legwork of the audit... the shop employees do. Less sales or productive stocking work.

Also, customers come in and see ATF working on an audit. They go down the street (wouldn't you? shocked

).

I swear, I'm buying everything possible private-party going forward.

90 days? That's enough time for them to fabricate anything they need for anyone they dislike, then also arrest for prohibited person in posession of a firearm on top of anything else. Even if it's not true, they can still make it up and it costs you money to fight. It's also entrapment.

I figure, if you walk up to an ATF liaison (i.e. FFL dealer) and say "excuse me sir, will you verify that I'm allowed to own that there rifle?" and the guy uses a multi-million dollar computer and support system to run that query for you to come back clean... you should be able to own that gun. And not have to worry about the goon-troop coming to give you hell afterwards.

I think yes/no/hold is a perfectly good system, with the gubmint "getting rid of (yeah, right)" the records in 24 hours. If they respond back with "hold", they get another 3 days to delve deeper.

I suspect they want to use those records they are secretly keeping for ancillary ciminal prosecution purposes, but they are inadmissible in their current state due to the 24 hour law.

This is all about prosecutions versus real public service.

Let the bad guy get his gun, then bust him... rather than just stopping him in the first place.

cassandra and sara's daddy · « **Reply #6 on:** June 11, 2008, 01:17:39 PM »

I think yes/no/hold is a perfectly good system, with the gubmint "getting rid of (yeah, right)" the records in 24 hours. If they respond back with "hold", they get another 3 days to delve deeper.

i'd agree but with a lil more time. friday sale on holiday weekend is tough. especially with mental health records being an issue.something like 3 buisness days

wacki · « **Reply #7 on:** June 11, 2008, 05:41:02 PM »

Any 2A supporter that doesn't vote for McCain this election is a fool. Things aren't perfect but to let Obama-nation slide in just because you don't have a dream candidate is suicide.

MicroBalrog · « **Reply #8 on:** June 11, 2008, 07:27:46 PM »

Quote from: Manedwolf on June 11, 2008, 04:52:38 AM

Why on earth would you be trying to damage the lesser of the evils in favor of the greater?

Because history doesn't end this election.

gunsmith · « **Reply #9 on:** June 12, 2008, 07:15:14 AM »

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Because history doesn't end this election.

"The Future Is Unwritten" Joe Strummer.

Archie · « **Reply #10 on:** June 12, 2008, 08:16:18 AM »

Not that I like it, you understand...

Senator John McCain is not a gun owner's dream candidate.

Senator Barack Obama is a gun owner's worst nightmare. Worse than Bill Clinton who was hideous.

A vote for any third candidate is a vote for Senator Obama. Just get that through your head. If you vote for Ron Paul, you're getting Senator Obama elected. Hold your breath and kick your feet if you wish, but that is what is going to happen.

Furthermore, John McCain understands the threat of Islamofascism, and I have more confidence in Senator McCain's choice in Supreme (and lessor) Court Justices and judges.

But this is America. If you want more socialism, higher taxes, less personal freedom from PC restraints and 'global warming' restraints and further restrictions on firearms ownership - then feel free to vote for Senator Obama. Or Ron Paul in order to get Senator Obama elected without actually voting for him.

Balog · « **Reply #11 on:** June 12, 2008, 08:22:11 AM »

Quote from: Archie on June 12, 2008, 07:16:18 AM

Not that I like it, you understand...
But this is America. If you want more socialism, higher taxes, less personal freedom from PC restraints and 'global warming' restraints and further restrictions on firearms ownership - then feel free to vote for Senator Obama. Or Ron Paul in order to get Senator Obama elected without actually voting for him.

Who opposed the Bush tax cuts, sponsored a free speech suppression act with Feingold, is all in on global warming, wants to close the gun show loophole?

Manedwolf · « **Reply #12 on:** June 12, 2008, 08:28:02 AM »

Quote from: Balog on June 12, 2008, 07:22:11 AM

Quote from: Archie on June 12, 2008, 07:16:18 AM

Not that I like it, you understand...
But this is America. If you want more socialism, higher taxes, less personal freedom from PC restraints and 'global warming' restraints and further restrictions on firearms ownership - then feel free to vote for Senator Obama. Or Ron Paul in order to get Senator Obama elected without actually voting for him.

Who opposed the Bush tax cuts, sponsored a free speech suppression act with Feingold, is all in on global warming, wants to close the gun show loophole?

Someone who sucks, but sucks less than a socialist demagogue who would love to see all guns taken away from private citizens.

YES MCCAIN IS FLAWED. But he's better than the only possible other outcome, which would be hell on earth for gun owners.

As Archie said, kick and hold your breath all you want, that's the hard reality.

Pb · « **Reply #13 on:** June 12, 2008, 08:29:56 AM »

McCain voted against the AWB two times. McCain supported Heller in DC v. Heller.

McCain appears more pro-gun than Bush in these regards.

Obama's website says he wishes to ban ALL semi-automatic guns, and have a FEDERAL BAN on concealed carry.

shocked

taurusowner · « **Reply #14 on:** June 12, 2008, 12:52:53 PM »

Do any of you think that if McCain gets elected, any republican seeking office will go back to conservatism? A win for McCain is saying to all GOP hopefuls "following the leftist playbook is the new way of doing things. We don't want conservatives anymore."

Manedwolf · « **Reply #15 on:** June 12, 2008, 02:33:57 PM »

Quote from: taurusowner on June 12, 2008, 11:52:53 AM

Do any of you think that if McCain gets elected, any republican seeking office will go back to conservatism? A win for McCain is saying to all GOP hopefuls "following the leftist playbook is the new way of doing things. We don't want conservatives anymore."

A win for McCain is a loss for Obama. Why can't you understand that?

We do not like McCain. But he's survivable. Obama would be hell on earth.

The Annoyed Man · « **Reply #16 on:** June 12, 2008, 02:46:43 PM »

A President is not a dictator. Either McCain or Obama will need willing accomplices in the Congress. In the final analysis, it doesn't really matter who's elected. They're both one termers anyway.

Manedwolf · « **Reply #17 on:** June 12, 2008, 02:48:42 PM »

It matters in who they stuff the Supreme Court with. I'd rather not have flaming leftists, thanks.

taurusowner · « **Reply #18 on:** June 12, 2008, 04:34:27 PM »

If McCain wins, we will never have another conservative candidate. Ever. We will have shown the GOP that being a liberal is the new direction of the nation for everyone. And they will take that message to hear and run More McCains from now on. Yes if Obama wins it will be hell on earth. For 4 years. But in those 4 years, maybe, just maybe, the GOP will learn that becoming Dimocrats will not fly with us. They just might learn that by running as a liberal in the GOP, it's a one way ticket to last place. And that is a good lesson to teach the Republican Party.

I'm trying to think beyond this next 4 years. I don't want to show the entire political spectrum of the US that its OK to run a liberal and a more liberal as the 2 candidates.

Balog · « **Reply #19 on:** June 12, 2008, 04:51:54 PM »

So the guy who wanted Ted Kennedy to write our immigration policy would suddenly turn into Barry Goldwater when appointing judges? I don't think so. At least with noBama the R's would oppose his nominees. With McCain, whatever lefty he proposed would slide right on through. Barry is a Marxist, but he's also a crappy politician. He can't get things done the way McCain can.

wacki · « **Reply #20 on:** June 12, 2008, 06:13:40 PM »

Quote from: Paddy on June 12, 2008, 01:46:43 PM

A President is not a dictator. Either McCain or Obama will need willing accomplices in the Congress. In the final analysis, it doesn't really matter who's elected. They're both one termers anyway.

The democrats will control both houses:

http://www.electoral-vote.com/

Doesn't matter who we elect as president? I know we are supposed to be polite on this forum but I think you've lost your marbles.

De Selby · « **Reply #21 on:** June 12, 2008, 06:35:06 PM »

There's a big risk here in gun owners organizing and coming out strongly in favor of Mccain.

If McCain loses, we'll have sent the message that gun owners do not determine elections, and that their reputation for clout in the late 90's is now over-rated.

There's already a perception on both sides of the aisle that gun bans are a loser of an issue, because the gun owner organizations can throw a lot of votes and lobbying help into elections. So for the most part, playing with the gun laws is not on the agenda.

That may change if gun owners back the wrong candidate and lose in a key election, which is extremely likely in this scenario.

Better to stick to issues based lobbying, to convince whoever holds the reigns next term that gun restrictions are a loser of an issue, and not worth the risk politically. They'll have plenty of other things to worry about.

Silver Bullet · « **Reply #22 on:** June 12, 2008, 06:55:28 PM »

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McCain voted against the AWB two times. McCain supported Heller in DC v. Heller.

McCain appears more pro-gun than Bush in these regards.

Obama's website says he wishes to ban ALL semi-automatic guns, and have a FEDERAL BAN on concealed carry.

BTR, that sums it up nicely. McCain isnt our ideal candidate by a longshot (that would be Ron Paul), but hes still waaaaaay better than Obama.

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Either McCain or Obama will need willing accomplices in the Congress.

And with a majority of Democrats now in the Senate and Congress, Obama is the only one with the willing accomplices.

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It matters in who they stuff the Supreme Court with. I'd rather not have flaming leftists, thanks.

A critical point. Even if folks arent able to discern the very sizable differences between Obama and McCain on RKBA, they should be able to get the matter of Supreme Court justices.

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They just might learn that by running as a liberal in the GOP, it's a one way ticket to last place. And that is a good lesson to teach the Republican Party.

Your golden opportunity to make that point was in the Primaries. In the general election youre just cutting off your nose to spite your face.

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Barry is a Marxist, but he's also a crappy politician. He can't get things done the way McCain can.

Obama has the House and Senate on his side, plus the liberalMedia which will stir up the less sophisticated citizens with a propaganda barrage.

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There's already a perception on both sides of the aisle that gun bans are a loser of an issue, because the gun owner organizations can throw a lot of votes and lobbying help into elections. So for the most part, playing with the gun laws is not on the agenda.

It certainly is on the Dems' agenda. Im seeing a lot of polls and news stories lately where the liberalMedia is either fishing for public sentiment or trying to nudge it. The Democrat politicians are not as vocal about it, because theyre trying to fly under the radar on that issue. All will change if Obama gets elected.

Manedwolf · « **Reply #23 on:** June 13, 2008, 02:41:40 AM »

Quote from: taurusowner on June 12, 2008, 03:34:27 PM

If McCain wins, we will never have another conservative candidate. Ever. We will have shown the GOP that being a liberal is the new direction of the nation for everyone. And they will take that message to hear and run More McCains from now on. Yes if Obama wins it will be hell on earth. For 4 years. But in those 4 years, maybe, just maybe, the GOP will learn that becoming Dimocrats will not fly with us. They just might learn that by running as a liberal in the GOP, it's a one way ticket to last place. And that is a good lesson to teach the Republican Party.

I'm trying to think beyond this next 4 years. I don't want to show the entire political spectrum of the US that its OK to run a liberal and a more liberal as the 2 candidates.

What part of "gun registration is irreversible, once they have the record, they have the record" do you not understand?

MicroBalrog · « **Reply #24 on:** June 13, 2008, 02:46:26 AM »

Quote from: Manedwolf on June 13, 2008, 01:41:40 AM

Quote from: taurusowner on June 12, 2008, 03:34:27 PM

If McCain wins, we will never have another conservative candidate. Ever. We will have shown the GOP that being a liberal is the new direction of the nation for everyone. And they will take that message to hear and run More McCains from now on. Yes if Obama wins it will be hell on earth. For 4 years. But in those 4 years, maybe, just maybe, the GOP will learn that becoming Dimocrats will not fly with us. They just might learn that by running as a liberal in the GOP, it's a one way ticket to last place. And that is a good lesson to teach the Republican Party.

I'm trying to think beyond this next 4 years. I don't want to show the entire political spectrum of the US that its OK to run a liberal and a more liberal as the 2 candidates.

What part of "gun registration is irreversible, once they have the record, they have the record" do you not understand?

And 'closing the gun show loophole' IS gun registration.

News:

Author Topic: Brady bunch OUT SEnator McCain (Read 21541 times)

taurusowner

taurusowner