Author Topic: Calif. Marriage Ruling Shows Need for Federal Amendment  (Read 15476 times)

Desertdog

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Calif. Marriage Ruling Shows Need for Federal Amendment
« on: June 16, 2008, 07:56:18 AM »
Calif. Marriage Ruling Shows Need for Federal Amendment
By Sen. Sam Brownback
CNSNews.com Commentary
http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewCommentary.asp?Page=/Commentary/archive/200806/COM20080616c.html


Last month, the Supreme Court of California handed down a ruling that many of us concerned about the institution of marriage in this country had feared. In a 4-3 ruling, the court struck down the state's one-man one-woman marriage laws -- including a voter-approved law passed by referendum in 2000 by a wide margin -- and mandated same-sex marriage.

When debating the need for a constitutional amendment to protect marriage in 2004 and again in 2006, some who opposed the amendment argued that, despite their firm belief that marriage should be between a man and a woman, the specter of a rogue judiciary poised to overturn the will of the people of the states was a fantasy concocted by the amendment's proponents. A constitutional amendment, they argued, was not necessary to protect the people against the bogeyman of "judicial activism."

Apparently, judicial activism is alive and well, since the will of the people of California was not enough to prevent the justices on California's Supreme Court from imposing their own redefinition of marriage on the state.

In the wake of this decision, it is apparent that the marriage laws of all 50 states continue to be at risk from judges who desire to legislate their views on important social issues from the bench and that only a constitutional amendment will suffice to protect marriage as the union of a man and a woman.

Why is it so imperative that we protect and preserve the traditional definition of marriage in the United States?

In the long view of history, it seems likely that we will look back at the social changes identified with the decline of marriage and the family, which began to make cultural inroads in the 1960s, and conclude that this vast cultural experiment has been a very harmful failure, particularly for our children.

That experiment, of course, continues apace today, but there are indications that America is beginning to reevaluate the matter, to assess where it is headed and whether, as a people, we need to correct this course.

If the experience of the last 40 years tells us anything, it is that the consequences of weakening the institution of marriage are tragic for society at large. The percentage of children born out of wedlock has increased almost tenfold during this period. And the jury is in on our experiment in raising children without a mom and a dad: The verdict is that it increases the risks for children substantially.

Marriage is designed to maximize the chances that each child will be provided with a mother and a father, in a stable family setting, during the years when children are too young to fend for themselves. To redefine marriage in such a way as to remove its essential connection to parenthood is to take away its very purpose.

Study after study shows that children do best in a home with a married, biological mother and father. Children who grow up in such homes, compared to children in other types of households, are about three times less likely to repeat a grade in school, five times less likely to have behavioral problems, half as likely to be depressed, three times less likely to use drugs, half as likely to be sexually active, and 14 times less likely to suffer parental abuse.

It is clear that the government has a special responsibility to safeguard the needs of children by upholding marriage; the social costs of not doing so are tremendous.

Those costs are financial as well as social. A recent study concluded that the breakdown of marriage costs taxpayers at least $112 billion each year.

The establishment of same-sex marriage in the United States can only further weaken an institution already in jeopardy. If you want to understand what same-sex marriage could mean, take a look at the countries in Europe, where they've had same-sex unions longer than anywhere else in the world.

In Scandinavia, marriage was already on the rocks even before they created same-sex partnerships. I don't think it's a coincidence that the one place in the world where marriage was weakest was the first place to try same-sex partnerships. And that step seems to have locked in and reinforced the problems with marriage that already existed in that region.

But the clearest example of the problems with same-sex marriage is the Netherlands. This is a country where out-of-wedlock births were actually relatively low. But after formal same-sex marriage came in, out-of-wedlock birthrates shot up. It looks as though same-sex marriage had a lot to do with that.

So it seems to me that in light of the European experience, the burden of proof is on those folks who would challenge our current definition of marriage. I don't want to take a chance on bringing Europe's weakened system of marriage here to the United States.

The moral imperative today is to do things that will strengthen marriage and help children, like eliminating disincentives to marriage in our welfare benefit system and reestablishing a culture that values moms and dads who get married and honor their commitments in marriage.

Now is not the time to take the enormous risk of further weakening this vital foundation of our society.

(Sam Brownback is a Republican who represents the state of Kansas in the U.S. Senate.)



BridgeRunner

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Re: Calif. Marriage Ruling Shows Need for Federal Amendment
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2008, 08:34:39 AM »
Apparently, judicial activism is alive and well, since the will of the people of California was not enough to prevent the justices on California's Supreme Court from imposing their own redefinition of marriage on the state.

It is the job of the judiciary to protect the rights of the minority.  In other words, to combat legislative activism. 

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Why is it so imperative that we protect and preserve the traditional definition of marriage in the United States?

Traditional?  Christian, certainly.  Well, for most Christians.  Personally, I think anyone who is interested in embracing the Catholic ideal of marriage should do so and in this country they are welcome to do so without fear of persecution.  But marriage is not necessarily about one man/one woman.  In more traditions, it is about one man/several women. 

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In the long view of history, it seems likely that we will look back at the social changes identified with the decline of marriage and the family, which began to make cultural inroads in the 1960s, and conclude that this vast cultural experiment has been a very harmful failure, particularly for our children.

Oh, I see.  So my husband and I living together and getting pregnant before our wedding was somehow a reflection of how bad for society gay marriage is?  The fact that many or most hetero couple cohabitate before marriage reflects how bad gay marriage?  The fact that divorce is commonly regarded as a solution to anything from boredom to financial troubles reflects how bad gay marriage is?  I see.

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That experiment, of course, continues apace today, but there are indications that America is beginning to reevaluate the matter, to assess where it is headed and whether, as a people, we need to correct this course.

Actually, in most states, laws discouraging cohabitation, bearing children out of wedlock, and obtaining divorcing to show a reevaluation of our priorities:  those laws are all moving towards making those choices more a matter of personal choice and less a matter of state incentives.  There are a few much-vaunted exceptions, like optional "extra committed" marriage options, but those are always *options*.  Family law is moving towards allowing choice.  And people are generally perfectly ok with this.  Personally, I think it might be a good idea to ban divorce, since that is traditional in the Catholic Church.  Of course, that is unconstitutional, as is infringes on people's personal choices.

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The percentage of children born out of wedlock has increased almost tenfold during this period.

Well, then.  Obviously the only solution is to prevent their parents from getting married.

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Study after study shows that children do best in a home with a married, biological mother and father. Children who grow up in such homes, compared to children in other types of households,

Ah, "other types of households".  Certainly we shouldn't contrast what we want with what we are railing against.  It makes more sense of course to contract what we want with a culture of crack whores and absent fathers.  That way they look really bad.  If you want to bash gay families, show some stats on GAY FAMILIES.  Not on "other types of households".

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It is clear that the government has a special responsibility to safeguard the needs of children by upholding marriage; the social costs of not doing so are tremendous.

What goes around comes around and now I've got conservatives telling me that raising my kid is their job.  I don't think so.  My kid, my job.  Butt out.

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But the clearest example of the problems with same-sex marriage is the Netherlands. This is a country where out-of-wedlock births were actually relatively low. But after formal same-sex marriage came in, out-of-wedlock birthrates shot up. It looks as though same-sex marriage had a lot to do with that.

That's one heck of a bizarre conclusion.  How do two people who get married bear culpability for someone else getting knocked up?  Oh right, we're all responsible for each other.  I don't get to make my own choices because it somehow makes the air turn all permissive and then there's teenagers getting knocked up and it's all my fault.  Tell me again how this is a conservative position?

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The moral imperative today is to do things that will strengthen marriage and help children, like eliminating disincentives to marriage in our welfare benefit system and reestablishing a culture that values moms and dads who get married and honor their commitments in marriage.

Y'know, a BAN is pretty hefty "disincentive".  Oh right, we're busy blaming welfare babies on gay guys.

Yawn.  Another rant about how teh gayzors are churning out too many crack babies and it's all their fault no one stays married.  So we need to ban them from getting married.

If Sam Brownback doesn't like gay marriage, he should avoid marrying a guy.  Other than that, bunch of wrong-headed, terribly argued drivel demonstrating an overinflated need to control other people.  Whatever happened to proselytization as the way to convince people to become good Christians?

41magsnub

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Re: Calif. Marriage Ruling Shows Need for Federal Amendment
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2008, 08:39:02 AM »
Yawn.  Another rant about how teh gayzors are churning out too many crack babies and it's all their fault no one stays married.  So we need to ban them from getting married.

You forgot that when the gays get married the health insurance rates are going increase because of all the AIDS. rolleyes

Fjolnirsson

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Re: Calif. Marriage Ruling Shows Need for Federal Amendment
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2008, 08:49:26 AM »
Bridgewalker said pretty much everything I was going to say, except this:

If I want to marry someone, be it a male, female, black, white, brown, jewish, christian or otherwise, that should be between myself and that person(or persons). The government has no business at all getting involved. The government needs to disassociate themselves from marriage completely. Allow churches to perform religious ceremonies, and for the legal areas of marriage, turn it into a simple civil ceremony granting all traditional rights and privileges to the signers thereof, be they of whatever race, religion, gender or number. A simple contract entered into by those of legal age.
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The Annoyed Man

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Re: Calif. Marriage Ruling Shows Need for Federal Amendment
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2008, 09:01:07 AM »
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(Sam Brownback is a Republican right wing authoritarian who represents the state of Kansas in the U.S. Senate.)

Fixed it.  Butt out.  Marriage is a legal function of the states, not the fedgov.

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Re: Calif. Marriage Ruling Shows Need for Federal Amendment
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2008, 10:40:52 AM »
Legislative activism?  Did you make that up? 

BridgeRunner

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Re: Calif. Marriage Ruling Shows Need for Federal Amendment
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2008, 10:55:54 AM »
Legislative activism?  Did you make that up? 

The phrase?  Yes.

The concept?  Hardly.

SteveS

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Re: Calif. Marriage Ruling Shows Need for Federal Amendment
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2008, 11:09:38 AM »
Can't we just have a sticky to the gay marriage threads?  There must be dozens by now.


It is the job of the judiciary to protect the rights of the minority.  In other words, to combat legislative activism. 


This bears repeating, though.  I have noticed that one person's judicial activist is another person's defender of the Constitution.  It just depends on your perspective.  If the Sup. Ct. killed the DC Gun Ban, then I am sure there would be many who say it goes against the will of the people. 

That being said, as much as gay marriage is ok by me, the legal arguments are somewhat weak.  I also think that a court mandated system in this area may end up forcing the anti gay marriage people to push for a Constitutional solution that may make any future compromise more difficult.
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De Selby

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Re: Calif. Marriage Ruling Shows Need for Federal Amendment
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2008, 12:25:44 PM »
Legislative activism?  Did you make that up? 

It's redundant-that's what legislatures do, is act.

If they wanted to wipe out the entire constitution and replace it with the communist manifesto, they have the power to do it.  They could also eliminate the judiciary, all in ways that the current judiciary would be bound to approve if it is in fact bound by the law.

What the judiciary does is ensure that the legislature has followed the necessary procedures to enact a law.
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BridgeRunner

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Re: Calif. Marriage Ruling Shows Need for Federal Amendment
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2008, 01:36:27 PM »
It's redundant-that's what legislatures do, is act.

Activism has a specific meaning beyond merely acting.
Activism is indeed, btw, what legislators tend to do, and some people become legislators specifically because of activist tendencies in one area or another.

I used the phrase "legislative activism" ironically, to point out that activist is, in this context, an almost meaningless word, used as nothing more than an informed sounding but ultimately meaningless perjorative.

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If they wanted to wipe out the entire constitution and replace it with the communist manifesto, they have the power to do it.  They could also eliminate the judiciary, all in ways that the current judiciary would be bound to approve if it is in fact bound by the law.

Yeah...Go read the constitution again. 

De Selby

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Re: Calif. Marriage Ruling Shows Need for Federal Amendment
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2008, 02:44:00 PM »

Yeah...Go read the constitution again. 

Not only did I reread it, I noted the sections you might wish to read on this subject:

http://www.law.emory.edu/law-library/research/ready-reference/us-federal-law-and-documents/historical-documents-constitution-of-the-united-states/article-v-the-amendment-process.html
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Article V: The Amendment Process

The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.

The Constitution can be changed by legislation to whatever degree imaginable; the changes have to go through this process, though.

The Judiciary cannot invent a new constitution because it doesn't like the one it has; that would be a good way for the judiciary to simply be written out of existence by a legislative apparatus that already had the political clout to rewrite the constitution in the first place.
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

BridgeRunner

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Re: Calif. Marriage Ruling Shows Need for Federal Amendment
« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2008, 03:58:16 PM »
Not only did I reread it, I noted the sections you might wish to read on this subject

Wow, that's just a really sad post, isn't it?

No, dude, the legislature cannot throw out the whole constitution.

Read it again.

First, there is a difference betwen the legislative branch of the federal government and the legislative branch of the federal government plus the legislatures or other selected mechanisms for reaching concensus among at least three quarters of the states. 

Second, again, you are confusing power, or as you rephrased it, "political clout" with authority.   

RevDisk

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Re: Calif. Marriage Ruling Shows Need for Federal Amendment
« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2008, 04:22:51 PM »

Whenever folks start talking about amending the Constitution to ban this or that, I seriously wonder where they went wrong in life.   

The Constitution exists to enumerate the rights and responsibilities of the US federal government.  It does not give any rights to the US citizen, it chooses to enumerate a few pre-existing ones.  It is supported to limit the government and protect the rights of the people.  When you start changing the Constitution to protect the government and limit the people, you are going down a dark road.  You subvert the intention of the Constitution and weaken its protection of the people. 
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lupinus

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Re: Calif. Marriage Ruling Shows Need for Federal Amendment
« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2008, 04:29:32 PM »
My thoughts on gay marriage aside, I agree with the judiciary being able to overrule the majority.

This is why we are a constitutional republic and not a democracy.  The majority does not have the right to oppress the inherent rights of a minority. 

I personally don't believe gay marriage is right.  Cohabitation?  Fine, not my buisness.  Government stamp of approval?  Not so much.

Marriage has always been a religious institution.  I say it should remain that way and the .gov should get out of the buisness altogether.  Let religious institutions marry based on their guidelines, streamline common law type situations or civil unions for adults who choose to live together, and let the private sector decide what level they want to afford based on the situation of different type of couples.
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41magsnub

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Re: Calif. Marriage Ruling Shows Need for Federal Amendment
« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2008, 05:01:08 PM »
Here I am in one of these threads again even when I do not have a dog in this fight..

I do not give a crap about the religious implications of gay marriage, I really don't.  At the same time religions should not be forced to recognize something they do not want to recognize.  Fine, do not allow them in your church or perform a marriage ceremony, hell be like Fred Phelps and shout it out on the streets how evil it is.

Most likely the gay folks would not want to be associated with that kind of church anymore than the church would want them in it.  However, call it a civil union, common law marriage, or whatever mechanism it needs to be:  gays have should have the exact same civil rights as anyone else and businesses should recognize it as a legal document for employee benefits.  Government should recognize it as a valid "marriage" for inheritance, income taxes, and all that next of kin stuff just like a traditional marriage.  It does not hurt anyone and makes the gays lives a little easier. 

Oh, and don't give me that "it's going to jack up the health insurance rates because we have to pay for their AIDS treatments!" BS that was brought up last time unless you are ready to also prevent smokers, drug users, and the obese from marriage as well.  That is a horrible generalization that all gays engage in risky sex with multiple partners on the level of saying every male who lives in a trailer park beats his spouse.  I know several gay couples and they are as faithful as can be.  We get it, lots of you don't like gays.  Lots of people don't like people trying to force their views on others.  If you do not like it, fine...  don't go the ceremony, don't attend the dual bridal showers or bachelor parties, take them off of your Christmas card list, and pretend they do not exist..  but stay out of their lives.

De Selby

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Re: Calif. Marriage Ruling Shows Need for Federal Amendment
« Reply #15 on: June 16, 2008, 06:17:23 PM »
Not only did I reread it, I noted the sections you might wish to read on this subject

Wow, that's just a really sad post, isn't it?

No, dude, the legislature cannot throw out the whole constitution.

Read it again.

It's unambiguous-"shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution".  I'm confused as to why this is an issue, considering that parts of the constitution have already been taken out, and new parts have already been added.  There is no "but you can't change the whole thing" rule anywhere in the Constitution.

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First, there is a difference betwen the legislative branch of the federal government and the legislative branch of the federal government plus the legislatures or other selected mechanisms for reaching concensus among at least three quarters of the states. 

Yes, but this is a part of the constitution that itself can be changed if you manage to do what has already been done once more-ie, go through the amendment and ratification process.  There is no rule in the Constitution that says "you can't amend Article V."

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Second, again, you are confusing power, or as you rephrased it, "political clout" with authority.   

No, I am not confusing it-political clout means "ability to wield more votes", in this context.  You get enough legislators on board, and you can change the entire constitution. 

It has nothing to do with authority-that's without question; legislators collectively have the authority to change the constitution.

"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

Nitrogen

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Re: Calif. Marriage Ruling Shows Need for Federal Amendment
« Reply #16 on: June 16, 2008, 06:37:13 PM »
The Federal marriage Amendment: The first constitutional amendment meant to take rights AWAY from a specific group of people that some don't like.

It'll be a dark day in this country if drek like that passes. 

Ya'all hate it when liberals legislate their morality vis a vis guns, it's just as wrong to legislate your morality about marriage.

If you don't like gay marriage, don't marry a gay person.
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De Selby

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Re: Calif. Marriage Ruling Shows Need for Federal Amendment
« Reply #17 on: June 16, 2008, 07:21:40 PM »
The Federal marriage Amendment: The first constitutional amendment meant to take rights AWAY from a specific group of people that some don't like.

It'll be a dark day in this country if drek like that passes. 

Ya'all hate it when liberals legislate their morality vis a vis guns, it's just as wrong to legislate your morality about marriage.

If you don't like gay marriage, don't marry a gay person.

No question that it would be bad news indeed.
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

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Re: Calif. Marriage Ruling Shows Need for Federal Amendment
« Reply #18 on: June 17, 2008, 08:13:18 AM »
"Don't mention health care costs like that meanie did before" ~ "Don't burden my prejudice with facts."
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Hugh Damright

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Re: Calif. Marriage Ruling Shows Need for Federal Amendment
« Reply #19 on: June 17, 2008, 11:01:15 AM »
I'd like to see an amendment that says (1) marriage in the US shall be between a man and a woman, (2) the official language of the US shall be English, and (3) the interstate commerce power shall not be construed so as to include general gun control powers. All of these things should go without saying, but there seems to be a lot of confusion out there.

The Annoyed Man

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Re: Calif. Marriage Ruling Shows Need for Federal Amendment
« Reply #20 on: June 17, 2008, 11:04:17 AM »
Hugh, you forgot 'the official religion shall be Christianity'.  rolleyes

Hugh Damright

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Re: Calif. Marriage Ruling Shows Need for Federal Amendment
« Reply #21 on: June 17, 2008, 11:12:50 AM »
Inappropriate comments deleted-mtnbkr.


ilbob

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Re: Calif. Marriage Ruling Shows Need for Federal Amendment
« Reply #22 on: June 17, 2008, 11:29:47 AM »
I'd like to see an amendment that says (1) marriage in the US shall be between a man and a woman, (2) the official language of the US shall be English, and (3) the interstate commerce power shall not be strictly construed.
I edited it a bit. Maybe add a line that says "congress shall pass no law" means "congress shall pass no law" and not that anything remotely tied to religion is out of bounds.
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Balog

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Re: Calif. Marriage Ruling Shows Need for Federal Amendment
« Reply #23 on: June 17, 2008, 03:10:09 PM »
I'd love to see the abortion that is the "interstate commerce clause" totally excised.
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Re: Calif. Marriage Ruling Shows Need for Federal Amendment
« Reply #24 on: June 17, 2008, 03:56:04 PM »
Why does this require a constitutional amendment, anyway?

Is it REALLY *THAT* important if Bob and George get married?  Does it REALLY require the time of congress?

The main thing that bothers me about this, besides the obvious predjudicial nature of the thing (to me it's no different than laws banning miscegenation) is that it just doesn't seem that IMPORTANT.  It's like congress holding hearings on steroids in baseball; it's a waste of time and my tax money.  Let's deal with real issues first, okay?
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