WaPo: Libertarian Candidate Barr Blasts McCain

[HK-91-762MM]

Im voting BARR--Better My guns be taken by a LIB than A RINO!
 Next time the RNC might think longer before they put RINOS up as my only choice to vote for >>
Besides next election after Yomomma  Has had time to show his true colors --We might pull a 94 election again and take all 3 -house, senate and potus.
 Lets see -We get a lib and our guns go--We get the party of jessssuuuss and  we live under Talaban Sharrieea Christian law!  Ones as bad as the other -We get libertarians and I have to work with a bunch Of toasted Druggies..Cant win!!!

[MicroBalrog]

Why exactly is Obama a "mess we cannot clean up"?

Yes, I get it, he's a left-winger. How is he worse than LBJ or FDR?

We are still hamstrung by the legacies of LBJ and FDR.  He doesn't need to even be worse to implement policies even more detrimental to the country.  Obama, with a democrat congress could do irreparable damage.  Once something is in place that someone is 'entitled' to, it becomes virtually the equivalent of a right.

So you're arguing it's completely impossible to undo the legacies of LBJ and FDR? Ever?

[xavier fremboe]

Why exactly is Obama a "mess we cannot clean up"?

Yes, I get it, he's a left-winger. How is he worse than LBJ or FDR?

We are still hamstrung by the legacies of LBJ and FDR.  He doesn't need to even be worse to implement policies even more detrimental to the country.  Obama, with a democrat congress could do irreparable damage.  Once something is in place that someone is 'entitled' to, it becomes virtually the equivalent of a right.

So you're arguing it's completely impossible to undo the legacies of LBJ and FDR? Ever?

No, it's not impossible, but no one has put on the insulated gloves and grabbed the third rail(s) yet.  Talk to someone on SS about dismantling, or even trimming it and see what the reaction is.  They'll generally tell you that they paid into it all their lives, and they deserve it.  You couldn't get elected promising to get it under control, and you couldn't get re-elected if you did something about it during your first term. 

Obama has already said he wants to lift the cap, so do you really don't think he's going to do anything about it?

The genie never goes back into the bottle, and I see an Obama rubbing lamps left and right.

[MicroBalrog]

Here's my argument, and I've said it before:

Divorce a thing from its purpose and you kill the thing.

The purpose of the GOP is to repeal the Great Society, or at least some of it.

By making McCain a Republican President, you will divorce the GOP forever from this purpose. It'll just be another European 'soft-right' party. And that means you'll never get out of the mess. Eventually a Democrat will get elected and institute more socialism. It's inevitable if you don't try and push them back.

But if Obama gets elected - which he likely will - and later we get a real Republican candidate, we can at least start slowly hacking away at the FDR-LBJ-BHO legacy.

If it is potentially possible to undo FDR and LBJ, then we can also undo BHO [which is NOT like LBJ and FDR].

If it is NOT possible to undo them, then it doesn't matter who you vote for, we are screwed anyhow.

[Manedwolf]

It hasn't been possible to undo the mess of social security.

It hasn't been possible to undo 1934, 1968 or 1986.

And once all-gun registration is law, the data can't be erased. It will BE.

This is why Obama cannot be elected. He must be defeated, the people must be informed as to what ruin he would bring and vote against him. The cost is too great otherwise.

[MicroBalrog]

So why, precisely, do you bother with politics if you don't think anything can be done but a long delaying action?

[xavier fremboe]

I heard someone being interviewed on a BBC Radio report this weekend.  His statement was something to the effect of, "McCain wasn't my first choice.  He wasn't my second choice.  He wasn't even really my third choice.  But I'd rather have a third rate fireman on the job than a first class arsonist."

[Balog]

Uh, Maned? 1986 was a repeal of the worst stuff from 1968. But it took a Carter presidency to shock the nation toward RR.

[Manedwolf]

I heard someone being interviewed on a BBC Radio report this weekend.  His statement was something to the effect of, "McCain wasn't my first choice.  He wasn't my second choice.  He wasn't even really my third choice.  But I'd rather have a third rate fireman on the job than a first class arsonist."

That's a good summary of the situation.

[MicroBalrog]

McCain isn't a fireman. He's just a guy who stands and watches the house burn - and the State expand.

Now, while I agree with Balog's point - parts of 1968 were repealed - the key question remains:

If the only thing you can do is fight a delaying action, why bother?

[roo_ster]

McCain isn't a fireman. He's just a guy who stands and watches the house burn - and the State expand.

Now, while I agree with Balog's point - parts of 1968 were repealed - the key question remains:

If the only thing you can do is fight a delaying action, why bother?

Because:
1. Fighting for what is right and for the COTUS is honorable, whatever the odds
2. More time spent with more liberty is better than more time spent with less liberty
3. Delaying actions are a sign of hope & optimism.  The delaying action is implemented so as to allow time for the forces of liberty to rally and convince others to join the cause.
4. The more Really Bad Ideas and unconstitutional, liberty-destroying initiatives we prevent from happening will make the return of liberty that much easier.

[The Annoyed Man]

I heard someone being interviewed on a BBC Radio report this weekend.  His statement was something to the effect of, "McCain wasn't my first choice.  He wasn't my second choice.  He wasn't even really my third choice.  But I'd rather have a third rate fireman on the job than a first class arsonist."

That's true up to a point. When the roof is leaking and the foundation is rotted then sometimes, I'd just rather see the house burn down. Not saying this house at this time, but you get my point.

[MicroBalrog]

Because:
1. Fighting for what is right and for the COTUS is honorable, whatever the odds
2. More time spent with more liberty is better than more time spent with less liberty
3. Delaying actions are a sign of hope & optimism.  The delaying action is implemented so as to allow time for the forces of liberty to rally and convince others to join the cause.
4. The more Really Bad Ideas and unconstitutional, liberty-destroying initiatives we prevent from happening will make the return of liberty that much easier.

Yes, but Manedwolf claims that liberty will NEVER return. That the Bad Ideas that already were accepted are here to stay.

If that is the case, the odds are basically zero.

[Manedwolf]

I heard someone being interviewed on a BBC Radio report this weekend.  His statement was something to the effect of, "McCain wasn't my first choice.  He wasn't my second choice.  He wasn't even really my third choice.  But I'd rather have a third rate fireman on the job than a first class arsonist."

That's true up to a point. When the roof is leaking and the foundation is rotted then sometimes, I'd just rather see the house burn down. Not saying this house at this time, but you get my point.

Uh.

I'd rather the lights stay on and the gas stations have gas, and my guns are able to stay in the safe, thanks.

An absolute breakdown would very much suck, and I would rather not see one.

[longeyes]

Anyone who wants to see it all burn down is guilty of terminal romanticism.  We do have workable options, even now.  They may be dramatic, they may be draconian, but they do exist. 

[The Annoyed Man]

I heard someone being interviewed on a BBC Radio report this weekend.  His statement was something to the effect of, "McCain wasn't my first choice.  He wasn't my second choice.  He wasn't even really my third choice.  But I'd rather have a third rate fireman on the job than a first class arsonist."

That's true up to a point. When the roof is leaking and the foundation is rotted then sometimes, I'd just rather see the house burn down. Not saying this house at this time, but you get my point.

Uh.

I'd rather the lights stay on and the gas stations have gas, and my guns are able to stay in the safe, thanks.

An absolute breakdown would very much suck, and I would rather not see one.

I'd rather that society's fabric hold together too, but historically, no great empire lasts. Not saying the cycle will end in flames in our lifetimes but it is one of the possibilities. Our system works only because people have faith in it. When that faith is shaken enough to break the system will crumble.

We can argue till we're blue in the face about McCain and Obama. The truth is they are both terrible choices if you love freedom.

[The Annoyed Man]

Anyone who wants to see it all burn down is guilty of terminal romanticism.  We do have workable options, even now.  They may be dramatic, they may be draconian, but they do exist. 

My "desire" to see a fire was conditionally based and pretty nebulous. What are our workable options?

[roo_ster]

Because:
1. Fighting for what is right and for the COTUS is honorable, whatever the odds
2. More time spent with more liberty is better than more time spent with less liberty
3. Delaying actions are a sign of hope & optimism.  The delaying action is implemented so as to allow time for the forces of liberty to rally and convince others to join the cause.
4. The more Really Bad Ideas and unconstitutional, liberty-destroying initiatives we prevent from happening will make the return of liberty that much easier.

Yes, but Manedwolf claims that liberty will NEVER return. That the Bad Ideas that already were accepted are here to stay.

If that is the case, the odds are basically zero.

Points 1 & 2 still apply, even if thre is zero chance for a revival of liberty.

[MicroBalrog]

Look, I'm arguing we CAN win this, if you haven't noticed.

There was a time before the Great Society. Society existed without these institutions. As such, it is possible that it may exist in this fashion again. I just want it to happen before I'm too fragging old to realize that I'm free.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

So why, precisely, do you bother with politics if you don't think anything can be done but a long delaying action?

If liberties lost are gone for good, then isn't it obviously a good thing to postpone the losses for as long as possible?

Maybe we can regain lost liberties, maybe we can't.  Seems smarter to not lose them in the first place.  That means delaying action.  Delay as long as possible, indefinitely if possible, any additional loss of liberty.

[The Annoyed Man]

If we keep blowing our chances to go on the offensive, we're going to be stuck in a fighting retreat our whole lives.

[MicroBalrog]

If we keep blowing our chances to go on the offensive, we're going to be stuck in a fighting retreat our whole lives.

Thank you.