Author Topic: Police wake man at 3 a.m. to warn of unlocked door  (Read 13725 times)

wmenorr67

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Police wake man at 3 a.m. to warn of unlocked door
« on: June 20, 2008, 07:18:32 AM »
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LAKEVILLE, Minn.   A Lakeville man says he feels violated after two police officers woke him up at 3 a.m. to tell him his door was unlocked.

Their surprise visit was part of a public service campaign to remind residents to secure their homes to prevent thefts. Usually, officers just leave notices on doors.

But they went further in Troy Molde's case on Thursday. Police entered the house where four children under 7 were having a sleepover, and then went upstairs to Molde's bedroom.

The officers told Molde his garage door was open, the TV was on, the keys to his truck were left in the ignition and the door to his house was ajar.

A police spokesman says the intrusion was justified because the officers' initial door knocks went unanswered, and they wanted to make sure nothing was wrong.

He says the kids inside _ Molde's two sons and two nephews _ were afraid to wake their dad, so the officers went upstairs.

http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2008Jun20/0,4670,ODDRudeAwakeningMinnesota,00.html

Justified if he blew them away?
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MicroBalrog

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Re: Police wake man at 3 a.m. to warn of unlocked door
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2008, 07:20:18 AM »
OF COURSE HIS KNOCKS WENT UNANSWERED

HE WAS KNOCKING AT 3 AM
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Manedwolf

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Re: Police wake man at 3 a.m. to warn of unlocked door
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2008, 07:21:44 AM »
What the HELL?!

If I heard my door open in the middle of the night, the first warning anyone coming in would get would be a glare of over a hundred lumens, then a likely muzzleflash if I didn't recognize them.

What stupidity is this?

MechAg94

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Re: Police wake man at 3 a.m. to warn of unlocked door
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2008, 07:23:08 AM »
Well, it does sound like the kids were awake when they woke up the Dad, but yeah, entering a house without permission and without warrant should not be happening. 
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K Frame

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Re: Police wake man at 3 a.m. to warn of unlocked door
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2008, 07:23:46 AM »
A warrant is for searches.

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Re: Police wake man at 3 a.m. to warn of unlocked door
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2008, 07:25:39 AM »
How hard did they knock?
I can hear someone at my door prety well even at 3am.  Unless I've been in the sauce.
Either way, its a risky proposition to just walk in my front door at 3am.  Most folks should know better.
Justified entry my ass.  Without proof that a crime is being comitted, how can they justify it?  Suspicion of a crime being committed is an awful broad brushstroke.
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Re: Police wake man at 3 a.m. to warn of unlocked door
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2008, 07:34:01 AM »
tough call.

without further info I am inclined to side with the cops on this one.

I didn't like the part about the kids being afraid to wake their dad. Just did not sound right to me.
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MechAg94

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Re: Police wake man at 3 a.m. to warn of unlocked door
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2008, 07:36:51 AM »
A warrant is for searches.


They searched his garage and found his keys in the ignition. 
I guess they heard or smelled something that made the suspicious right?
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K Frame

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Re: Police wake man at 3 a.m. to warn of unlocked door
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2008, 07:42:00 AM »
No, they didn't search his garage.

Looking in the windows of a car is plain sight. Had they opened the doors and opened the glove box, that would be a search as contents of the glove box are not in plain sight.

While I personally would be rather pleased that the police are noticing things out of the ordinary, such as my garage door being open at 3 a.m., I think they should have called into dispatch and gotten the phone number for the home and called, not gone upstairs.
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alex_trebek

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Re: Police wake man at 3 a.m. to warn of unlocked door
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2008, 08:26:42 AM »
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If I heard my door open in the middle of the night, the first warning anyone coming in would get would be a glare of over a hundred lumens, then a likely muzzleflash if I didn't recognize them.

What stupidity is this?

Yes it is very stupid, also very stupid to leave keys in the truck, garage door open, and the front door open, especially with kids in the house.

I thought warrants only applied to searches, as well as entering a secured residence.  In other words, it is my impression that police can enter private property if it is unlocked/or open.

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Re: Police wake man at 3 a.m. to warn of unlocked door
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2008, 08:34:07 AM »
I didn't like the part about the kids being afraid to wake their dad. Just did not sound right to me.

Yea, what's up with that?  My aunt's kid (about 2 or 3) knocks on my door at 3AM for whatever reason I get up and we goof off.

wtf.  Maybe the kids are just 'at that age'.
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Re: Police wake man at 3 a.m. to warn of unlocked door
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2008, 08:47:08 AM »
The only thing I can say to this is that the door was ajar.  I can see them entering and making sure everything was ok.  If they got shot, that would have been on them, they entered his property. 
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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Police wake man at 3 a.m. to warn of unlocked door
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2008, 08:48:55 AM »
Yes it is very stupid, also very stupid to leave keys in the truck, garage door open, and the front door open, especially with kids in the house.

I thought warrants only applied to searches, as well as entering a secured residence.  In other words, it is my impression that police can enter private property if it is unlocked/or open.
An unlocked door does not give police the right to enter your home uninvited.  They may enter "public" portions of your property, such as driveways, sidewalks, and porches.  They can peek through windows, open doors, and so forth.  But actually entering the home without a warrant or consent is illegal (except in an emergency).

Legal or not, entering a stranger's home uninvited at 3:00am no less is a darned good way to get yourself ventilated.  It's very fortunate that the incompetence of these cops didn't cost anyone their life.

alex_trebek

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Re: Police wake man at 3 a.m. to warn of unlocked door
« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2008, 08:52:43 AM »
I completely agree, I just thought that it has been declared legal.  I didnt mean to imply I thought police had the right per se, just meant to say that since the door was open no warrant was required.  I probably watched too much TV......  grin

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Legal or not, entering a stranger's home uninvited at 3:00am no less is a darned good way to get yourself ventilated.  It's very fortunate that the incompetence of these cops didn't cost anyone their life.

Yep.  Darwin will probably take care of both idiots someday.....

K Frame

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Re: Police wake man at 3 a.m. to warn of unlocked door
« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2008, 08:56:32 AM »
A door that's standing wide open in the dead of night is a completely different matter.

Wide open garage door and unlatched front door.

Chances are those are two highly unusual conditions in this individual's neighborhood. That raises the level of alert for police. And yes, courts have found that police have greater leeway in entering properties when they observe unusual conditions such as these.

I can only imagine the howling that would be happening on this board had the police simply logged the fact that the garage door was open and the front door ajar and gone on their merry way, only to later learn that the homeowner was being murdered and his wife raped and murdered.

As I said, I really can't fault the police's actions until the point where they went upstairs and woke the guy up. Once they determined that no overt crime was being committed they should have gotten dispatch to phone the house.
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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Police wake man at 3 a.m. to warn of unlocked door
« Reply #15 on: June 20, 2008, 09:08:58 AM »
I guess the question becomes whether the presence of an open garage or unlocked door is evidence of a crime or emergency.  I can't imagine how, on their own, either would imply an emergency.  I know people who routinely leave their garage doors open (say, for family members who arrive home late at night and don't want to wake up the whole house with the sound of the garage door).  I know people who leave their front doors unlocked, either deliberately or accidentally. 

It even sounds like the police officers encountered some children immediately after entering the house, who no doubt told the officers that nothing was wrong.  You might be able to stretch and claim the initial entry was justified, but you clearly cannot justify the officers walking upstairs, into the man's bedroom, to wake him up, after being told by the residents that nothing was amiss.

Hang these police ossifers out to dry.

mfree

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Re: Police wake man at 3 a.m. to warn of unlocked door
« Reply #16 on: June 20, 2008, 09:19:26 AM »
Garage door open, keys in the ignition, front door unlocked... just about screams "garage abduction" to me. Yeah, I'd check it out, too.

You wouldn't catch me rapping on a guy's bedroom door though, I'd be rather loud entering the front...

alex_trebek

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Re: Police wake man at 3 a.m. to warn of unlocked door
« Reply #17 on: June 20, 2008, 09:21:24 AM »
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Hang these police ossifers out to dry.

I don't know if I would go that far....  There are certainly far better examples of police abusing their powers, and/or unjustified intrusion of individual liberties.  If we start assuming everything they do is an intrusion, essentially calling wolf, then we are only hurting ourselves.

I certainly don't agree with the officer's choices beyond the initial investigation, without further information I will give the benefit of the doubt and say their hearts were probably in the right place.  Being a police officer has to be a tough job, and they probably just didn't want to be called back to this house to find it full of dead children imo.  Without further info, it is hard to say either way.

agricola

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Re: Police wake man at 3 a.m. to warn of unlocked door
« Reply #18 on: June 20, 2008, 09:21:57 AM »
I dont see the problem here - its not as if they went in and started searching / registering his guns / drinking his beer, they were probably concerned that something bad had happened.  

As for the kids in the house, other reports state this was a seven year old and three five year olds.  I dont know what the law is like in the US, but you would have hoped the officers would have assured themselves that there was an adult supervising those kids, and given that the kids apparently said they wouldnt go and wake their dad what else were they meant to do?

http://origin.twincities.com/life/ci_9641991

Edit... and of course this may just be my suspicious mind, but given that (on the UK version at least) the first hit on a Google search for "Troy Molde" is an account on Findlaw of how he has been taken to the cleaners in a divorce settlement, perhaps hoping-to-get-money is more of an issue here than this chap feeling his privacy was violated.
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SteveS

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Re: Police wake man at 3 a.m. to warn of unlocked door
« Reply #19 on: June 20, 2008, 09:25:14 AM »
A door that's standing wide open in the dead of night is a completely different matter.

Wide open garage door and unlatched front door.

Chances are those are two highly unusual conditions in this individual's neighborhood. That raises the level of alert for police. And yes, courts have found that police have greater leeway in entering properties when they observe unusual conditions such as these.

I can only imagine the howling that would be happening on this board had the police simply logged the fact that the garage door was open and the front door ajar and gone on their merry way, only to later learn that the homeowner was being murdered and his wife raped and murdered.

As I said, I really can't fault the police's actions until the point where they went upstairs and woke the guy up. Once they determined that no overt crime was being committed they should have gotten dispatch to phone the house.

This is correct.  Besides, what are you going to sue the police for under these circumstances?  Tresspassing?  Good luck with that.  I am not saying that entering unlocked homes uninvited is a good policy, but lets be realistic.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Police wake man at 3 a.m. to warn of unlocked door
« Reply #20 on: June 20, 2008, 11:23:23 AM »
A warrant is for searches.



Absent explicit permission or a valid complaint, entry into a private residence by an police officer is trespass, just as it would be if I walked into your house at 03:00 and shook you awake.

The police were out of line. Well-intended, but out of line.
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MechAg94

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Re: Police wake man at 3 a.m. to warn of unlocked door
« Reply #21 on: June 20, 2008, 12:09:15 PM »
While I agree with Hawkmoon, I must have missed that the door to the house was "AJAR".  I thought it just said "unlocked".  I can see the officers being suspicious if they found the door ajar. 
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Re: Police wake man at 3 a.m. to warn of unlocked door
« Reply #22 on: June 20, 2008, 12:11:35 PM »
I wonder if they had a screen door? We often left our front door open with the screen closed to let the breeze in.
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Re: Police wake man at 3 a.m. to warn of unlocked door
« Reply #23 on: June 20, 2008, 12:34:09 PM »
7 year old in charge of 3 5 year olds? up at 3 amwatching tv?? afraid to wake dad?  cps gets a call. if the cops could just walk in sol could anyone else. my kids wouldn't be staying at troys house after i punched him out
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MicroBalrog

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Re: Police wake man at 3 a.m. to warn of unlocked door
« Reply #24 on: June 21, 2008, 05:09:45 AM »
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"Troy Molde" is an account on Findlaw of how he has been taken to the cleaners in a divorce settlement, perhaps hoping-to-get-money is more of an issue here than this chap feeling his privacy was violated.

What Mr. Molde Feels is entirely irrelevant for the purposes of this. If his privacy was violated, and the court rules appropriately, then Mr. Molde deserves to get money from this, and the police officers in question, and their agency, deserve to get sued, and maybe they'll learn that way.
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