I am voting for Obama

[Jamisjockey]

Exactly... If you study the man he is a charismatic socialist.  Appeal to the ignorant masses, gives them hope and change. What a freaking dill-weed.

I call a spade a spade and Obama is a socialist through and through.

Really, charby?   Please explain, in detail, how Obama is a 'socialist, through and through'.   Can you do that, or do you just throw the same pejoratives that you hear on rightwing talkradio?

We don't need rightwing talkradio.  The man has said it hisself:

Obama's Plan to Cover Uninsured Americans: Obama will make available a new national health plan to all Americans, including the self-employed and small businesses, to buy affordable health coverage that is similar to the plan available to members of Congress. The Obama plan will have the following features:

That is socialisim.  I don't care how you cut it.  Socialisim is the belief that the government has the right to take from the haves, give to the havenots.  Its anti-american, unconstitutional, and quite frankly, immoral.

Subsidies. Individuals and families who do not qualify for Medicaid or SCHIP but still need financial assistance will receive an income-related federal subsidy to buy into the new public plan or purchase a private health care plan.

Obama is all for reducing the government debt.  Hey, me too!!
He's also for Socialist programs.
How the hell do you pay for both at the same time???
Why, tax the ever loving hell out of anyone that makes a decent living in this country!!
That, that right thre is socialisim.  Sorry you don't understand the concept, but of course, living in Kalifornistan you think its normal.

[old school]

I was curious how this thread would go. The question was: would people be able to actually discuss the issues and beliefs without degrading to smears, attacks and swiftboat folklore.

That really is the challenge in these types of discussion. The thing is, there is so very much to be gained if we can share our thoughts and ideas. Our politics and government is truly our greatest responsibility. Yet, many times as a people, we treat it with our lowest level of integrity.

I realize that it is not likely that what I say will compel people to take thier politics more seriously and abondon the childish need to strike out at any opposition, but I think it has to be said. We really could take our country back from the massive corruption that has infiltrated it at every level.

The real bad guys are the special interest and corporate lobbyists who buy off our representatives destroy the very foundation that our county was built on. Those are your REAL enemies and they love to see us squabble about stupid and pointless issues. They love this because they know we are so easily distracted by menial garbage. They love it because we know we are weak when we are divided.

[Manedwolf]

I was curious how this thread would go. The question was: would people be able to actually discuss the issues and beliefs without degrading to smears, attacks and swiftboat folklore.

Tell that to MoveOn and Daily Kos. They'd be the most egregious offenders by far, there. They even celebrate when an opponent meets with personal misfortune.

The rest of your posts sound suspiciously like the fluff and attempts at mind-clouding semantics that the Obama people have been trying to use, with great success on the "followers", and with little success on those who question every facet of who a politician is.

That is not going to change.

[Nick1911]

The real bad guys are the special interest and corporate lobbyists who buy off our representatives destroy the very foundation that our county was built on.

Can you clarify this a bit?  As the "foundation that our county was built on" are you referring to equal representation?

[old school]

I am refering to the fact that we the people are suppose to elect representative that we believe in and hold them accountable to do OUR bidding while in office.

What it has degenerated into is quite sad. Politicians snuggling up to lobbyist and special interest groups for campaign funding only to owe a huge debt these people once in office. This means that it is not you or me that is influencing our representatives but the sugar daddys who funded them.

It does not end there either. Once in office, they are looking for these people to fund this or that. They are looking for jobs for thier family members and careers when they leave office. Even non elected officials like FDA employees are becoming "friendly" to drug companies. You would be shocked to see how many ex FDA employees have high paying lucrative jobs waiting for them when they leave the administration.

Ever wonder why so many congressmen who went into office with modest means leave as multi-millionaires? I sure do.

This is all a direct result of our stupidity as citizens. We will get emotional and irrational about non issues and semantics while they destroy our country and steal us blind right before our eyes.

[Nick1911]

Alright - and what is Obama's proposed fix?

[old school]

Alright - and what is Obama's proposed fix?

Fixing corruption is up to you and me. That post was in regards to how easily we, as a country, are distracted by squabbling over non issues and semantics. How we get so caught up in taking shots at each other that we forget who our real enemies are.

I will say that Obama does champion the elimination of corruption far more vocally than any other person during his presidential campaign. He has passed transparency laws during his congressional term and he has said he intends to be aggressive on the topic if elected.

Increased transparency and the elimination of corruption is my number on priority as a voter right now. If we can't wake people up on this issue and take back our country, we are a doomed republic.

[nico]

I will say that Obama does champion the elimination of corruption far more vocally than any other person during his presidential campaign. He has passed transparency laws during his congressional term and he has said he intends to be aggressive on the topic if elected.

Increased transparency and the elimination of corruption is my number on priority as a voter right now. If we can't wake people up on this issue and take back our country, we are a doomed republic.

Congressional term?  I thought he spent a year in the Senate before he started his presidential campaign.  Which "transparency law" did he co-author?  How about at least co-sponsor?  Vote for? 


I wonder if old school is part of obama's "anti smear" campaign.  He sounds like an obama hack: throwing out general platitudes that everyone would agree are good ideas, without any specifics on what his guy plans to do to make those good ideas happen, not to mention ignoring specific examples that his guy is being disingenuous on those ideas 

[pinoyinus]

Exactly... If you study the man he is a charismatic socialist.  Appeal to the ignorant masses, gives them hope and change. What a freaking dill-weed.

I call a spade a spade and Obama is a socialist through and through.

Really, charby?   Please explain, in detail, how Obama is a 'socialist, through and through'.   Can you do that, or do you just throw the same pejoratives that you hear on rightwing talkradio?

Universal healthcare, otherwise known as socialized medicine, isn't socialist enough for you?

[old school]

Don't worry Nico, I won't be sucked in to your personal attacks on me. After all, that is my point exactly isn't it?
I also won't be chasing aroung looking up votes, bill and laws for your approval either. I fully understand powerplay and all of the political art tactics that people will employ to attempt to get their percieved enemies dancing to their beat. Not gonna happen.

The purpose of thread was to invite people to have a very real discussion on their political choices and THEIR reason for their choices. If you can function on that level, let's hear it.
How you participate defines who you are.

[El Tejon]

If you are so upset with "special interests", why support Obama as he is beholden to the Radical Chic, terrorists like Ayers, and the Chicago Machine?

Isn't the way to battle political corruption is to shrink the power and authority of government as the Supreme Court said, like water, money will always find it's way into politics as long as there is something to carve up.

[ilbob]

I am a huge fan of his anti-corruption agenda. He has had a good intiative and legislation on campaign finance transparency. I believe he is really dedicated to eliminating the special interest choke hold of corruption on Washington.

You do understand he is wholly owned by the most corrupt political machine ever, don't you?

[old school]

Universal healthcare, otherwise known as socialized medicine, isn't socialist enough for you?

This is a valid point. However, I offer to you that it is not an absolute. Just as we don't live in an absolutely capitalist country. We have capitalist trade but we have myriads of social programs. Social Security, medicare, welfare, unemployment and even your local fire department are socialistic.

The most successful countries and societies in the world are a mix of capitalistic and socialistic ideals. The fact is that this mix is neccessary. We should take care of our old, our sick and disadvantaged. It helps control crime, disease, and our dignity. Not to mention, it is just the good and moral thing to do.

Many people try to make the socialism a scary absolute threat poised to destroy capitalism and the american way. It is just not reality. All progressive and successful countries know that the formula of a capitalistic and socialistic blend is the best government. We have been a the shining example of this for years.

[roo_ster]

Don't worry Nico, I won't be sucked in to your personal attacks on me. After all, that is my point exactly isn't it?
I also won't be chasing aroung looking up votes, bill and laws for your approval either. I fully understand powerplay and all of the political art tactics that people will employ to attempt to get their percieved enemies dancing to their beat. Not gonna happen.

The purpose of thread was to invite people to have a very real discussion on their political choices and THEIR reason for their choices. If you can function on that level, let's hear it.
How you participate defines who you are.

Translation:
"I can't be bothered to examine the man's actual record.  I will not allow you to harsh my mellow with silly facts."

[El Tejon]

Any government powerful enough to give you want you want is powerful enough to take everything away from you.  Anything given to you by government is inferior to what the private market provides.

We tried this inane moralistic '60s attitude by taking "care" of everyone in Obama's Chicago, Ida B. Wells, Cabrini-Green, Robert Taylor Homes were all disasters--cesspools of crime, disease, immorality and an abolition of hope.  Something given has no value.  Socialised medicine will be a disaster just as in other nations and just as big a disaster as the housing projects of Obama's Chicago.

If you want to improve health care, get the government out of the way and allow the market to correct services.  Just look at the amazing benefits in cosmetic surgery or even corrective eye surgery.  Market driven services lower cost and improve services.  Allow doctors to practise medicine and allow them to make money for everyone's benefit.

[old school]

Any government powerful enough to give you want you want is powerful enough to take everything away from you.  Anything given to you by government is inferior to what the private market provides.

We tried this inane moralistic '60s attitude by taking "care" of everyone in Obama's Chicago, Ida B. Wells, Cabrini-Green, Robert Taylor Homes were all disasters--cesspools of crime, disease, immorality and an abolition of hope.  Something given has no value.  Socialised medicine will be a disaster just as in other nations and just as big a disaster as the housing projects of Obama's Chicago.

If you want to improve health care, get the government out of the way and allow the market to correct services.  Just look at the amazing benefits in cosmetic surgery or even corrective eye surgery.  Market driven services lower cost and improve services.  Allow doctors to practise medicine and allow them to make money for everyone's benefit.

This is a key point and very obviously true. That is why most of the smarter legislators including Barack Obama are suggesting a single payer insurance program as opposed to the government run healthcare that Hilary championed at one point.

[roo_ster]

I find it interesting that folks who would be up in arms if someone declared an industry ought to be a monopoly, have no problem whatsoever with a monopsony.

[Silver Bullet]

I am hoping the congress learned their lesson after the last time we booted them all out over gun rights.

"Hoping" ?  Me too, but I'm not going to trust them to have learned their lesson.  It is RKBA suicide to elect such a hugely anti-gun politician like Obama as president when Congress and the Senate are both Democrat majorities.

[Tallpine]

even your local fire department are[sic] socialistic

Our local fire departments are all volunteer.

I am totally astounded that anyone would support either of the two major candidates.  Voting for one or the other as a lesser evil I can understand, but anyone who actually believes the bovine scatology that they profess is an idiot or seriously deluded.

[pinoyinus]

Universal healthcare, otherwise known as socialized medicine, isn't socialist enough for you?

This is a valid point. However, I offer to you that it is not an absolute. Just as we don't live in an absolutely capitalist country. We have capitalist trade but we have myriads of social programs. Social Security, medicare, welfare, unemployment and even your local fire department are socialistic.

The most successful countries and societies in the world are a mix of capitalistic and socialistic ideals. The fact is that this mix is neccessary. We should take care of our old, our sick and disadvantaged. It helps control crime, disease, and our dignity. Not to mention, it is just the good and moral thing to do.

Many people try to make the socialism a scary absolute threat poised to destroy capitalism and the american way. It is just not reality. All progressive and successful countries know that the formula of a capitalistic and socialistic blend is the best government. We have been a the shining example of this for years.

Whatever it is that is "socialized" should be backed up by a constitutional mandate.  Police powers, Emergency services, the military, courts are all founded on solid constitutional mandates.  AFAIK, there is no constitutional mandate for a right to free health care.  Admittedly, there are benefits that citizens (and non citizens) enjoy that are also without constitutional mandates.  We should all strive to have these entitlements limited (if not removed entirely) rather than to vote to have more entitlements. 

[old school]

Our local fire departments are all volunteer.

Wow, that must be a pretty small town. I came from a small town too but even our little 2500 people town had full time fireman. I never minded my tax dollars going to them one bit.

[longeyes]

Let the man finish his waffle.  He's clearly in love.

[Gowen]

It is obvious that oldschool is only here to pimp obama.  I think you will see a lot more of that between now and November.

[MicroBalrog]

It is obvious that oldschool is only here to pimp obama.  I think you will see a lot more of that between now and November.

Why the horror! The horror! People disapproving of our preferred political candidates! What shall we do?

[Sergeant Bob]

It is obvious that oldschool is only here to pimp obama.  I think you will see a lot more of that between now and November.

Why the horror! The horror! People disapproving of our preferred political candidates! What shall we do?

I disapprove of all the "preferred" political candidates and I think scanr is still correct. This "person" appears to be a seminar Obama poster. IIRC, the Obama campaign even talked about having people whose purpose was to refute his negatives on the webz.