Author Topic: GM reacts to marketshare loss with stunning...uh...swiftness.  (Read 15031 times)

Manedwolf

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,516
So they MIGHT bring the small, fuel-efficient Chevrolet Beat they sell overseas to the US. In 2012 or so. In about four years. Maybe. And that's what they consider "speeding up" the decision.

Amazingly agile company, aren't they? And they wonder why they're failing? It's like trying to turn a glacier. rolleyes

Quote
GM to Speed Decision on Mini Car for U.S.
By SHARON TERLEP
Wall Street Journal
July 5, 2008; Page B6

General Motors Corp. said it is giving a higher priority to deciding whether it will bring the next-generation Chevrolet Beat mini car -- a vehicle it sells overseas -- to the U.S. market in the 2012 timeframe.

Such a move would increase the stakes on GM's bet the U.S. market is undergoing historic change.
[Mini]
GM
The Chevrolet Beat finished first in online voting by 1.8 million people world-wide on three General Motors mini-car concepts.

GM is conducting major surgery on the product plans it had set for the next decade, scrambling to react to falling demand for vehicles that consume a relatively large amount of gasoline. The next generation of GM mini cars, on which the Beat is based, is slated to debut in several global markets in coming years and should be capable of at least 40 miles per gallon.

"We always thought we'd do it at some point, but now it obviously enjoys a much higher priority," GM Vice Chairman Bob Lutz wrote in an email. GM's U.S. sales were down 16% in the first half of the year, and the auto maker can't move fast enough to meet demand for its smallest, most fuel-efficient cars.

"The reality is that our future depends on selling a lot of small cars," David Sabolsky, sales manager of a Spitzer Chevrolet in North Jackson, Ohio, said. "They're going to be forced to come up with something like [the Beat] for this market."

GM is one of several players looking to eventually enter a mini-car segment that currently is almost nonexistent. Daimler AG's Smart cars are the only serious mini cars on the market, having gone on sale earlier this year, and thus far have shattered expectations.

Smart cars struggle to even fill half of a conventional parking space and are much smaller than BMW AG's stylish Mini products, for example.

Smart's sales through the first half hit 11,400 in the U.S., putting the company well on track to shatter the initial target of 16,000 sales in the first year. Initially a hit in trendy, coastal metro areas, Smart U.S.A. is now putting dealerships in cities like Tulsa, Okla., and Omaha, Neb. The company said buyers are using the cars as their primary mode of transportation.

Ford Motor Co. said Thursday it has no plans on the table to bring its micro-sized Ka mini car to the U.S., but it is monitoring the success that Smart is having.

"We have small cars on the shelf all around the world," Ford spokesman Jay Ward said. "If at some point we decide to bring [the Ka] over here, we would be in a position to do so."

Boomhauer

  • Former Moderator, fired for embezzlement and abuse of power
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,387
Re: GM reacts to marketshare loss with stunning...uh...swiftness.
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2008, 06:54:04 PM »
It really doesn't help them that their quality (even though it seems to be the best of the Big Three) is not nearly as good as the "import" brands...

If I was buying a new vehicle, such as a car or light truck, there really isn't any reason to look at the Big Three. Now, for a HD diesel truck, that's an entirely different manner, considering that the "import" brands don't have a HD diesel on the market (yet)

I would have bought a Toyota truck, but there aren't any on the used market. There were plenty of Dodges, several Fords, and rather few Chevys...but no Toyotas, except for a very few that were all priced out of my budget...

The Big Three are dinosaurs being dragged down by the chains of their unions and unflexible thinking...

Oh, and Ford's latest commercials have them claiming that they are equal in quality to Toyota? Where did that line of BS come from?



Quote from: Ben
Holy hell. It's like giving a loaded gun to a chimpanzee...

Quote from: bluestarlizzard
the last thing you need is rabies. You're already angry enough as it is.

OTOH, there wouldn't be a tweeker left in Georgia...

Quote from: Balog
BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE! AND THROW SOME STEAK ON THE GRILL!

Parker Dean

  • friend
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 405
Re: GM reacts to marketshare loss with stunning...uh...swiftness.
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2008, 07:44:33 PM »
Let's not forget some other things about this too, like government regulations.

First off, is the Beat capable of meeting US crash standards? If not then where and what is required to make it pass will have to be studied, engineered, retested, any corrections made on unforeseen complications caused by the new parts on existing items, and so on.

Next is the Beat's drivetrain EPA certified? If not, then it'll have to be certified and the last I heard that was at least 2 years worth of testing. Then after it's certified they'll have to tune and test for economy standards and then decide if it's even worth doing.

Once you get something that's acceptable to the goverment, then you can start getting contracts together with parts suppliers, unions, tooling suppliers, etc., who in turn have to fit it into their schedules.

Keep in mind money, which is tight for GM, would have to be budgeted for all this. I'm thinking 4 years would be about right. Almost makes you wonder if it wouldn't be easier to start with a clean slate sometimes.

Manedwolf

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,516
Re: GM reacts to marketshare loss with stunning...uh...swiftness.
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2008, 02:17:36 AM »
Let's not forget some other things about this too, like government regulations.

First off, is the Beat capable of meeting US crash standards? If not then where and what is required to make it pass will have to be studied, engineered, retested, any corrections made on unforeseen complications caused by the new parts on existing items, and so on.

Next is the Beat's drivetrain EPA certified? If not, then it'll have to be certified and the last I heard that was at least 2 years worth of testing. Then after it's certified they'll have to tune and test for economy standards and then decide if it's even worth doing.

Once you get something that's acceptable to the goverment, then you can start getting contracts together with parts suppliers, unions, tooling suppliers, etc., who in turn have to fit it into their schedules.

Keep in mind money, which is tight for GM, would have to be budgeted for all this. I'm thinking 4 years would be about right. Almost makes you wonder if it wouldn't be easier to start with a clean slate sometimes.

Honda got the Fit, which is the same kind of car, on the US market in record time. I'm seeing them all over. They just had what they needed beforehand, pretty much went "Let's do it", and did it. They apparently had all the US safety requirements addressed in advance. Foresight. Toyota's been throwing new tiny Scion models on the US market one after the other as well.

GM just takes half a decade to come up with a single thought and filter it through their boardrooms, is what it looks like to me. I don't think all that is much of an excuse. They're just incredibly slow to react to changes in the market, which is why their marketshare is sinking like a stone.

I'm just wondering if the Big Three will do the same thing they did in the 1970's, which caused the ascendancy of foreign cars in the first place. Namely, equate "small and fuel efficient" with "crappy quality and cheap materials" with cars like the Vega, Chevette and Pinto, which is what allowed Honda, Toyota and Mazda to kick their asses with the Civic, Corolla, GLC and other similar cars that were tiny and efficient, but well-made.

K Frame

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 44,779
  • I Am Inimical
Re: GM reacts to marketshare loss with stunning...uh...swiftness.
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2008, 04:53:04 AM »
Ah, the Chevy Vega.

I think that might have been the only car that was suffering rust through BEFORE it left the assembly line.
Carbon Monoxide, sucking the life out of idiots, 'tards, and fools since man tamed fire.

lupinus

  • Southern Mod Trimutive Emeritus
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 9,178
Re: GM reacts to marketshare loss with stunning...uh...swiftness.
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2008, 04:59:15 AM »
We went from a basket ball sized hunk of metal with a radio antenna to people on the frickin moon in ten years.

Are you trying to tell me it'll take at least four years to make a car, already designed and in production, tweaked to be legal for the US market?  I have trouble believing a new production car in Europe whose enviro weeinies make ours look like armatures wouldn't pass the epa standards.  Crass test?  throw a few extra bits of steel on the damn thing and put it in production.

My next car was going to be a Chevy Cobalt, I personally really like them.  But with as fast as that ship is sinking I'm really starting to question if I should buy a car I plan on keeping awhile from them.
That is all. *expletive deleted*ck you all, eat *expletive deleted*it, and die in a fire. I have considered writing here a long parting section dedicated to each poster, but I have decided, at length, against it. *expletive deleted*ck you all and Hail Satan.

Boomhauer

  • Former Moderator, fired for embezzlement and abuse of power
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,387
Re: GM reacts to marketshare loss with stunning...uh...swiftness.
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2008, 05:04:44 AM »
Quote
Ah, the Chevy Vega.

I think that might have been the only car that was suffering rust through BEFORE it left the assembly line.

My family had THREE of them back in the day... grin

Quote
My next car was going to be a Chevy Cobalt, I personally really like them.  But with as fast as that ship is sinking I'm really starting to question if I should buy a car I plan on keeping awhile from them.

Go buy a quality Toyota or Honda. You are buying a front wheel drive either way, aren't you? Might as well go with a high quality brand...
Every Toyota I've ever ridden in felt very solid and well built...


I'd buy a smaller car in a hearbeat if it was rear wheel drive...but it seems like everything out their is FWD...I refuse to work on a sideways engine...

Maybe a Subaru?




Quote from: Ben
Holy hell. It's like giving a loaded gun to a chimpanzee...

Quote from: bluestarlizzard
the last thing you need is rabies. You're already angry enough as it is.

OTOH, there wouldn't be a tweeker left in Georgia...

Quote from: Balog
BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE! AND THROW SOME STEAK ON THE GRILL!

Manedwolf

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,516
Re: GM reacts to marketshare loss with stunning...uh...swiftness.
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2008, 05:08:30 AM »
I'd buy a smaller car in a hearbeat if it was rear wheel drive...but it seems like everything out their is FWD.

Wider market, that's why. FWD and AWD can be sold all over. RWD tends to suck on snow and ice.

lupinus

  • Southern Mod Trimutive Emeritus
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 9,178
Re: GM reacts to marketshare loss with stunning...uh...swiftness.
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2008, 05:10:07 AM »
Quote
My next car was going to be a Chevy Cobalt, I personally really like them.  But with as fast as that ship is sinking I'm really starting to question if I should buy a car I plan on keeping awhile from them.

Go buy a quality Toyota or Honda. You are buying a front wheel drive either way, aren't you? Might as well go with a high quality brand...
Every Toyota I've ever ridden in felt very solid and well built...
Toyota Corrola S is increasingly getting higher and higher on my list when I go buy a car in about a year.  The Cobalt (from what I understand) is actually a pretty solid little car that compared to others of it's type isn't as bad a nightmare to work on.  Only thing putting me off is how soon it looks like GM will be out of buisness, personally I don't want to see the prices on replacement parts if they fold in five years and I'm stuck with one of their cars.  I buy cars and keep them till they start nickel and dimeing me, I don't get rid of them after two years.

Subaru is nice but out of my price range.
That is all. *expletive deleted*ck you all, eat *expletive deleted*it, and die in a fire. I have considered writing here a long parting section dedicated to each poster, but I have decided, at length, against it. *expletive deleted*ck you all and Hail Satan.

wmenorr67

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12,775
Re: GM reacts to marketshare loss with stunning...uh...swiftness.
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2008, 05:15:11 AM »
Quote
Wider market, that's why. FWD and AWD can be sold all over. RWD tends to suck on snow and ice.

Not if you know how to drive.
There are five things, above all else, that make life worth living: a good relationship with God, a good woman, good health, good friends, and a good cigar.

Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American Soldier.  One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.

Bacon is the candy bar of meats!

Only the dead have seen the end of war!

Manedwolf

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,516
Re: GM reacts to marketshare loss with stunning...uh...swiftness.
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2008, 05:16:39 AM »
Quote
Wider market, that's why. FWD and AWD can be sold all over. RWD tends to suck on snow and ice.

Not if you know how to drive.

Most people can't deal with RWD on snow and ice. I've seen Mustangs do ballet across an intersection in winter.

That's why I said "wider market"...because most people can't drive. Smiley

And yes, it is much easier to get unstuck from snow if your steering wheels are also your drive wheels.

lupinus

  • Southern Mod Trimutive Emeritus
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 9,178
Re: GM reacts to marketshare loss with stunning...uh...swiftness.
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2008, 05:20:25 AM »
I used to drive an '87 Camaro when I lived in PA.  That was fun driving through the snow when it was about three feet deep and it's getting deep enough that you wonder where that lazy ass plow driver is.  Never once spun it (at least by accident  laugh) even though I managed to slide into a few snow banks when the road was a skating rink.
That is all. *expletive deleted*ck you all, eat *expletive deleted*it, and die in a fire. I have considered writing here a long parting section dedicated to each poster, but I have decided, at length, against it. *expletive deleted*ck you all and Hail Satan.

roo_ster

  • Kakistocracy--It's What's For Dinner.
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 21,225
  • Hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats
Re: GM reacts to marketshare loss with stunning...uh...swiftness.
« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2008, 05:31:25 AM »
GM & Ford have come up a lot in quality the last decade or so.  So much so that they are the equal in quality to the then-new Hondas & Toyotas of a few years back.

Thing is, Honda & Toyota are still increasing quality, so they are still a bit ahead. 

I guess my point is, if you buy Ford or GM today you aren't buying a POS, unless you thought a Honda or Toyota 5-10 years ago was a POS.

GM & Chevy will still be around to service your Cobalt.
Regards,

roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
----G.K. Chesterton

El Tejon

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,641
    • http://www.kirkfreemanlaw.com
Re: GM reacts to marketshare loss with stunning...uh...swiftness.
« Reply #13 on: July 06, 2008, 05:36:16 AM »
We had a Chevy Vega, station wagon! grin

My brother and I slept in the back while my parents drove us to Wyoming from summer vacation one year.  I do not remember any problems with ours.

The Big Three are dead and they know it.  The unions are killing them.  Glad my dad took his silver parachute and hit the door.
I do not smoke pot, wear Wookie suits, live in my mom's basement, collect unemployment checks or eat Cheetoes, therefore I am not a Ron Paul voter.

lupinus

  • Southern Mod Trimutive Emeritus
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 9,178
Re: GM reacts to marketshare loss with stunning...uh...swiftness.
« Reply #14 on: July 06, 2008, 05:48:01 AM »
jf they may be, they may not be at this rate.  And this shows it.  Hell I could understand if they wanted to roll out something entirely new.  But come on, the damn this is already on the market elsewhere all they need to do is maybe make some tweaks for American standards/laws.  Why will it take four years?  GM is on it's way out at this rate and that saddens me as I'm a Chevy person.  But the company isn't looking good.
That is all. *expletive deleted*ck you all, eat *expletive deleted*it, and die in a fire. I have considered writing here a long parting section dedicated to each poster, but I have decided, at length, against it. *expletive deleted*ck you all and Hail Satan.

Manedwolf

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,516
Re: GM reacts to marketshare loss with stunning...uh...swiftness.
« Reply #15 on: July 06, 2008, 05:56:00 AM »
Also, GM needs to fire their designers. The Beat's internals were designed by Daewoo in Korea. Then GM just had their designers give it the Pontiac treatment, and the result was...um...



Guess they didn't learn from the Aztek. LOOK IT IS A GRILLE WITH WHEELS. AND ANGLES. AND A GIANT CHEVY LOGO...

roo_ster

  • Kakistocracy--It's What's For Dinner.
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 21,225
  • Hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats
Re: GM reacts to marketshare loss with stunning...uh...swiftness.
« Reply #16 on: July 06, 2008, 06:04:57 AM »
Yes, the the Big Three have some serous challenges & handicaps relative to the foreign producers.  Same deal with the airlines.

I expect the worst to happen is that one or more of them declare bankruptcy and then shuck off their pension obligations to all the old union retirees as did that one airline did a couple years back.

Regards,

roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
----G.K. Chesterton

lupinus

  • Southern Mod Trimutive Emeritus
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 9,178
Re: GM reacts to marketshare loss with stunning...uh...swiftness.
« Reply #17 on: July 06, 2008, 06:57:04 AM »
that thing is fugly
That is all. *expletive deleted*ck you all, eat *expletive deleted*it, and die in a fire. I have considered writing here a long parting section dedicated to each poster, but I have decided, at length, against it. *expletive deleted*ck you all and Hail Satan.

cosine

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,734
Re: GM reacts to marketshare loss with stunning...uh...swiftness.
« Reply #18 on: July 06, 2008, 07:01:52 AM »
Quote
Wider market, that's why. FWD and AWD can be sold all over. RWD tends to suck on snow and ice.

Not if you know how to drive.

Most people can't deal with RWD on snow and ice. I've seen Mustangs do ballet across an intersection in winter.

That's why I said "wider market"...because most people can't drive. Smiley

And yes, it is much easier to get unstuck from snow if your steering wheels are also your drive wheels.

My family has an extended version passenger GMC Savanah. RWD. I drive it a lot, and know how to drive it. Still, sometimes there's nothing you can do to keep from fishtailing a bit as you go around a corner.

Yes, RWD can suck on snow and ice.

And yes, that "thing" a couple of post up is ugly.
Andy

K Frame

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 44,779
  • I Am Inimical
Re: GM reacts to marketshare loss with stunning...uh...swiftness.
« Reply #19 on: July 06, 2008, 10:49:35 AM »
My winter snow car was a 1977 Ford Maverick.

Only once did I lose control of it, on black ice, on a hill, and at a very low rate of speed.
Carbon Monoxide, sucking the life out of idiots, 'tards, and fools since man tamed fire.

mfree

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,637
Re: GM reacts to marketshare loss with stunning...uh...swiftness.
« Reply #20 on: July 06, 2008, 10:52:25 AM »
RWD requires a lot of the chassis design that ruins interior space. You have to have a north/south mounted engine, which lengthens the hood and causes problems with crush zones, you have to have a transmission tunnel, a driveshaft tunnel to eat at the legroom, even if you use a transaxle you've got to make room for it... causes problems with fuel tank location, you have to make room for a diff and halfshafts...

It just doesn't make sense to have a small car with Front engine/RWD unless you make it performance oriented, to where storage and seating room doesn't matter. Look at the mustang; If you shrunk it, the parts can't really get any smaller, so interior room would begin to suffer...

K Frame

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 44,779
  • I Am Inimical
Re: GM reacts to marketshare loss with stunning...uh...swiftness.
« Reply #21 on: July 06, 2008, 10:55:04 AM »
"Look at the mustang"

Or the RWD Miata.

No pretense of it being anything other than a 2 seat sports car with RWD.
Carbon Monoxide, sucking the life out of idiots, 'tards, and fools since man tamed fire.

Scout26

  • I'm a leaf on the wind.
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 25,997
  • I spent a week in that town one night....
Re: GM reacts to marketshare loss with stunning...uh...swiftness.
« Reply #22 on: July 06, 2008, 12:17:45 PM »
Also, GM needs to fire their designers. The Beat's internals were designed by Daewoo in Korea. Then GM just had their designers give it the Pontiac treatment, and the result was...um...



Guess they didn't learn from the Aztek. LOOK IT IS A GRILLE WITH WHEELS. AND ANGLES. AND A GIANT CHEVY LOGO...

Why is it frowning ??   undecided
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

mtnbkr

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 15,388
Re: GM reacts to marketshare loss with stunning...uh...swiftness.
« Reply #23 on: July 06, 2008, 12:47:39 PM »
Dunno, maybe it prefers redheads?

Chris

lupinus

  • Southern Mod Trimutive Emeritus
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 9,178
Re: GM reacts to marketshare loss with stunning...uh...swiftness.
« Reply #24 on: July 06, 2008, 01:12:28 PM »
maybe its in on the fact by the time it gets into production the company will be closed? lol.

Hell I remember the Camaro was supposed to be back in 07, 09 we may see a few.
That is all. *expletive deleted*ck you all, eat *expletive deleted*it, and die in a fire. I have considered writing here a long parting section dedicated to each poster, but I have decided, at length, against it. *expletive deleted*ck you all and Hail Satan.