Author Topic: I just finished watching The Lord of the Rings film trilogy...  (Read 11626 times)

cosine

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I'm confusered. I think I'm going to have to watch it again, pay much more attention to detail, and actually think about what's going on to understand it. I approached it with my usual attitude towards movies, that of being presented mindless entertainment, and it failed. I missed pretty much everything of importance, and wouldn't be able right now to hold a conversation about it to save my life. Next time I'm going to approach and watch it with with a different attitude than my usual one, and then perhaps I will understand what's going on.
Andy

Perd Hapley

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Re: I just finished watching The Lord of the Rings film trilogy...
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2008, 07:39:18 PM »
I thought you just read the books.  So what's the problem?
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cosine

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Re: I just finished watching The Lord of the Rings film trilogy...
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2008, 07:45:20 PM »
I thought you just read the books.  So what's the problem?

No, I'm trying to read the books. That's not going much better than watching the movie trilogy did.
Andy

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Re: I just finished watching The Lord of the Rings film trilogy...
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2008, 07:56:54 PM »
Oh, so you just want to be an iconoclast.   laugh  Hey, if you don't dig 'em, just read the Cliff notes and move on.   smiley
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cosine

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Re: I just finished watching The Lord of the Rings film trilogy...
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2008, 08:02:41 PM »
Oh, so you just want to be an iconoclast.   laugh  Hey, if you don't dig 'em, just read the Cliff notes and move on.   smiley

I may just do that.
Andy

Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: I just finished watching The Lord of the Rings film trilogy...
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2008, 08:57:29 PM »
Where are you in the books?  I found the first book to be pretty slow.  They get progressively better.

HankB

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Re: I just finished watching The Lord of the Rings film trilogy...
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2008, 03:16:55 AM »
LOTR is one of the very few instances in which the movie was better than the book.

FWIW, I never did finish reading the books . . . heck, I never finished reading the first book.

The long, rambling descriptions of Hobbitown and other heavily-padded passages made me think Tolkien was getting paid by the word, sort of like Robert Jordan after the first few books in his Wheel of Time series.
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griz

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Re: I just finished watching The Lord of the Rings film trilogy...
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2008, 03:27:05 AM »
At the request of somebody I car about, I tried to watch it.  I made it through about a half hour of the first one and gave up.  My feeling is they could use it to torture enemy combatants.
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Manedwolf

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Re: I just finished watching The Lord of the Rings film trilogy...
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2008, 03:58:07 AM »
The movies had a lot of "That makes no sense" moments for me. Yes, they were visually impressive.

But the city in Return of the King...where were the farm fields? What did they eat?

MechAg94

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Re: I just finished watching The Lord of the Rings film trilogy...
« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2008, 04:28:54 AM »
I noticed that too.  You didn't see any farming villages either. 

There was some stuff about the battle in front of the walls I didn't like either, but I'll save that.


IMO, the books were better since I always hate for movies to spoil the imagination of a book.  At the time, I thought Tolkien's descriptions of the landscape and such were pretty good.  I did read the Hobbit first so maybe that kept me going for the first book.  It gets better.
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cosine

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Re: I just finished watching The Lord of the Rings film trilogy...
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2008, 04:43:45 AM »
Where are you in the books?  I found the first book to be pretty slow.  They get progressively better.

The sixth chapter of the first book.


Quote from: Manedwolf
But the city in Return of the King...where were the farm fields? What did they eat?

I noticed and wondered about the same thing too.


Quote from: MechAg94
IMO, the books were better since I always hate for movies to spoil the imagination of a book.  At the time, I thought Tolkien's descriptions of the landscape and such were pretty good.  I did read the Hobbit first so maybe that kept me going for the first book.  It gets better.

I made it through The Hobbit, that was a bit easier to read, although I didn't really enjoy it. I think his many descriptions of landscapes is something I don't like. Good, so it's a beautiful country. Now can I please have some weighty content that actually seems to further the storyline?
Andy

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Re: I just finished watching The Lord of the Rings film trilogy...
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2008, 05:03:53 AM »
Where are you in the books?  I found the first book to be pretty slow.  They get progressively better.

The sixth chapter of the first book.


Quote from: Manedwolf
But the city in Return of the King...where were the farm fields? What did they eat?

I noticed and wondered about the same thing too.

As others have said, the first book gets started excruciatingly slowly, but things do pick up to an extent later in the series.  There are spots later on that are give-me-that-part-of-my-life-back dull, though.  I've read the whole series a number of times, and I'd wager that I know it about as well as it's possible to know it while not being a mom's-basement-dwelling Tolkien Dork.

The thing that is different about LOTR is that it's not a book, or even a series of books.  It's a world.  Tolkien was, among other things, a linguist.  The various languages and mythologies presented in LOTR are actually pretty thoroughly put together, and the races each have a history that Tolkien put together as meticulously as any anthropologist.  The fact that he was making stuff up doesn't change the level of detail that he put into it.  I'd wager to say that Tolkien, by the time he was done, knew more about the fictional races in his books than we know about some ancient cultures that actually existed.

Middle Earth even has scripture.

With respect to the way that Minas Tirith fed itself, there's a certain amount of discussion of that in the books, and more in some of the side works.  Thing is, the Tower of Guard was just that:  a fortress; it was there for one purpose only, to provide a military stronghold against the potential that Mordor might rise and attack Gondor again.  So it was built not with economics in mind, but with strategic position and defensibility in mind.  Food was carried to the city in wagons from all over the country of Gondor.  One might as well look at New York City and ask where they grow their food; simple...they don't.  They haul it from elsewhere.

This fine-grained world-building is both a strength and a weakness for the stories; on the one hand, it means that it's one of the most internally-consistent works of that magnitude ever written.  On the other hand, since he put all that effort into it, I get the feeling that Tolkien occasionally got carried away in putting too much detail into things.  Later on in the first book, for instance, Frodo will come to a mountain called Caradhras, and Tolkien will carefully point out that that it its name in Elvish (Sindarin specifically), and that in the language of Men it means "Redhorn", and in the tongue of the Dwarves, it is called "Barazinbar".  None of which advances the story, but provides insight into the depth of the people and races in it.

That may be your cup of tea.  It may not.  I find Tolkien's worlds compelling for their completeness and consistency.  Even so, I still occasionally get frustrated with how long it takes for him to get to the point in some parts of the story.

-BP
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cosine

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Re: I just finished watching The Lord of the Rings film trilogy...
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2008, 05:22:23 AM »
Where are you in the books?  I found the first book to be pretty slow.  They get progressively better.

The sixth chapter of the first book.


Quote from: Manedwolf
But the city in Return of the King...where were the farm fields? What did they eat?

I noticed and wondered about the same thing too.

As others have said, the first book gets started excruciatingly slowly, but things do pick up to an extent later in the series.  There are spots later on that are give-me-that-part-of-my-life-back dull, though.  I've read the whole series a number of times, and I'd wager that I know it about as well as it's possible to know it while not being a mom's-basement-dwelling Tolkien Dork.

The thing that is different about LOTR is that it's not a book, or even a series of books.  It's a world.  Tolkien was, among other things, a linguist.  The various languages and mythologies presented in LOTR are actually pretty thoroughly put together, and the races each have a history that Tolkien put together as meticulously as any anthropologist.  The fact that he was making stuff up doesn't change the level of detail that he put into it.  I'd wager to say that Tolkien, by the time he was done, knew more about the fictional races in his books than we know about some ancient cultures that actually existed.

Middle Earth even has scripture.

With respect to the way that Minas Tirith fed itself, there's a certain amount of discussion of that in the books, and more in some of the side works.  Thing is, the Tower of Guard was just that:  a fortress; it was there for one purpose only, to provide a military stronghold against the potential that Mordor might rise and attack Gondor again.  So it was built not with economics in mind, but with strategic position and defensibility in mind.  Food was carried to the city in wagons from all over the country of Gondor.  One might as well look at New York City and ask where they grow their food; simple...they don't.  They haul it from elsewhere.

This fine-grained world-building is both a strength and a weakness for the stories; on the one hand, it means that it's one of the most internally-consistent works of that magnitude ever written.  On the other hand, since he put all that effort into it, I get the feeling that Tolkien occasionally got carried away in putting too much detail into things.  Later on in the first book, for instance, Frodo will come to a mountain called Caradhras, and Tolkien will carefully point out that that it its name in Elvish (Sindarin specifically), and that in the language of Men it means "Redhorn", and in the tongue of the Dwarves, it is called "Barazinbar".  None of which advances the story, but provides insight into the depth of the people and races in it.

That may be your cup of tea.  It may not.  I find Tolkien's worlds compelling for their completeness and consistency.  Even so, I still occasionally get frustrated with how long it takes for him to get to the point in some parts of the story.

-BP

Thanks for this post, Brokenpaw. I didn't realize anything which you wrote about Lord of the Rings. That provides a better insight for me about where Tolkien is coming from and why. You may have given me enough understanding of what Lord of the Rings is and how it's put together to make reading easier and more enjoyable. I may be able to actually finish it.
Andy

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Re: I just finished watching The Lord of the Rings film trilogy...
« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2008, 05:26:17 AM »
What BP wrote, with bells on it.

Another JRRT book that gives a clue as the the depth of the world he created is The Silmarillion.
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Tallpine

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Re: I just finished watching The Lord of the Rings film trilogy...
« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2008, 05:29:53 AM »
Either the movies or the books are best on a blizzardy winter day curled up by the fire with a cup of hot chocolate.  In that case, both are way too short and lacking in detail Wink

What the heck are you doing reading or watching LOTR in the middle of July ?  shocked
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cosine

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Re: I just finished watching The Lord of the Rings film trilogy...
« Reply #15 on: July 10, 2008, 05:32:38 AM »
Either the movies or the books are best on a blizzardy winter day curled up by the fire with a cup of hot chocolate.  In that case, both are way too short and lacking in detail Wink

What the heck are you doing reading or watching LOTR in the middle of July ?  shocked

School's out and I actually have some free time? Last year I had one 18 credit semester and one 17 credit semester, and this upcoming year I'm going to have two 18 credit semesters, so as you may suspect time becomes mighty precious.
Andy

Racehorse

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Re: I just finished watching The Lord of the Rings film trilogy...
« Reply #16 on: July 10, 2008, 05:40:04 AM »
I read them as a teenager since I wasn't allowed to watch TV during the school year. It does take a while to get into them. I think I had three false starts before I actually got through the first book. They are great books, but Tolkien does tend to get long-winded sometimes.

mtnbkr

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Re: I just finished watching The Lord of the Rings film trilogy...
« Reply #17 on: July 10, 2008, 05:40:42 AM »
Either the movies or the books are best on a blizzardy winter day curled up by the fire with a cup of hot chocolate.  In that case, both are way too short and lacking in detail Wink

What the heck are you doing reading or watching LOTR in the middle of July ?  shocked

School's out and I actually have some free time? Last year I had one 18 credit semester and one 17 credit semester, and this upcoming year I'm going to have two 18 credit semesters, so as you may suspect time becomes mighty precious.

I'll cry you a river. Tongue

I did 18hr semesters Sophomore through Junior year so I could start grad school in my Senior year (only 16hrs/semester that year).  I finished up my degrees in the 5th year with only 12hrs and internships.  I worked full time during the summer too.  Kids are so soft these days. Wink

Edit to add:  I was only a Business major, nothing hard like "real" math or physics.

Chris

HankB

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Re: I just finished watching The Lord of the Rings film trilogy...
« Reply #18 on: July 10, 2008, 05:56:56 AM »
. . . The thing that is different about LOTR is that it's not a book, or even a series of books.  It's a world
Edgar Rice Burroughs did a pretty good job describing Barsoom and its different cultures, and in his more "down to earth" books he created a language for the mangani. (OK, so ERB"s science is flaky . . . we know that . . . now.)
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cosine

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Re: I just finished watching The Lord of the Rings film trilogy...
« Reply #19 on: July 10, 2008, 06:01:53 AM »
Either the movies or the books are best on a blizzardy winter day curled up by the fire with a cup of hot chocolate.  In that case, both are way too short and lacking in detail Wink

What the heck are you doing reading or watching LOTR in the middle of July ?  shocked

School's out and I actually have some free time? Last year I had one 18 credit semester and one 17 credit semester, and this upcoming year I'm going to have two 18 credit semesters, so as you may suspect time becomes mighty precious.

I'll cry you a river. Tongue

I did 18hr semesters Sophomore through Junior year so I could start grad school in my Senior year (only 16hrs/semester that year).  I finished up my degrees in the 5th year with only 12hrs and internships.  I worked full time during the summer too.  Kids are so soft these days. Wink

Edit to add:  I was only a Business major, nothing hard like "real" math or physics.

Chris

Aha! I knew there had to be a catch! Tongue
Andy

doc2rn

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Re: I just finished watching The Lord of the Rings film trilogy...
« Reply #20 on: July 10, 2008, 06:20:28 AM »
It's too bad they butchered the ending of the movie.
In the book they go back to Hobbiton and take out ole worm tongue who had aided in hexing the king. It also would have been neat to see the elven gifts work in the movie like they did in the book.

mtnbkr

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Re: I just finished watching The Lord of the Rings film trilogy...
« Reply #21 on: July 10, 2008, 06:20:45 AM »
Yeah, I had to go back and add that when I remembered you were a math major or something like that. Smiley

Chris

cosine

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Re: I just finished watching The Lord of the Rings film trilogy...
« Reply #22 on: July 10, 2008, 06:23:31 AM »
Yeah, I had to go back and add that when I remembered you were a math major or something like that. Smiley

Chris

Electrical engineering. Almost a math degree. Wink (I can get a math minor from MU with the addition of only one math course besides those which I have to take for my EE degree.)
Andy

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Re: I just finished watching The Lord of the Rings film trilogy...
« Reply #23 on: July 10, 2008, 06:39:04 AM »
The best advice I can give is that Tolkein wasn't in a hurry to write them.  You can't be in a hurry to read them.  I agree with the earlier post about the ending.  That would have been cool.
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Tallpine

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Re: I just finished watching The Lord of the Rings film trilogy...
« Reply #24 on: July 10, 2008, 06:57:55 AM »
I do agree that the movies languished in places (the long drawn out tearful slow motion hugs in the farewell scene at the elf ship at the end  rolleyes ) and left out some interesting stuff - like Tom Bombadil and Goldberry (my favorite characters).

Remember, too - that the books were written before tv and video games and ADD Wink
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